Anti Muslim Protests

[Furr]

You're all daft, we've already had "this" thread,

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/general-2/227600-what-time-muslim-time.html

 

[00dave]

You can't have read much then. Context is everything.

I don't know what your problem is of late Tom but you're just coming across as a cock. I can't believe you would claim to laugh at someone who threatened to kill you and your family and then try to defend your comments with an unclear mention of context.
Here's your context, a man is standing in front of you, his face is in yours, his eyes full of hate and he's screaming that he's going to kill you, probably accusing you of murdering innocent iraq civilians. Would you laugh Tom? Would you?

The last time I looked, America was a country suffering from crippling levels of racism that are deep-rooted within its society. The phrase 'African-American' doesn't exist because people see themselves as American. Try looking at the recent racist attacks on Barack Obama, crudely disguised as political dogma. America stopped integrating a long time ago.

The last time you looked at what? Your latest edition of treehuggers weekly? Yes America has it's problems but they're no worse than in say Australia and both these countrys populations are proud patriotic people who seem to be happy, yet Britain has/is the opposite. I once heard somebody on the news refer to it as "positive discrimination" which is a disgusting representation of some peoples beliefs in this country, because that phrase should not exist. Again my New York/ London comparison, everyone in New York was friendly and happy to help, nearly everyone in London was miserable and seemed pissed off at you for daring to make them do something.

Ok, I'm stupid.

Yup

 

[00dave]

I have yet to see a more racist group than Muslims, even the peaceful muslims dislike anyone but their own kind. I am speaking from experience here.

Well my only experience of muslims was in peterborough when I was based at RAF Wittering (thats the camp that banned its personel from wearing uniform off camp) there I was spat at and called a murderer. So you must be wrong Trem, they're all fine upstanding people who showed no hatred to me at all.

As said before, you can only call white people racists in this country though.

I also agree with Trem here. Holding a conversation as a white man in this country is sometimes like walking a minefield, there are so many words and phrases you can't use. Or should I say feel you can't use.

 

[tris-]

i used to dislike foreigners because i always though they were rude. dont say hello, please, thank you or smile.
since working in retail i kniow that english are just as rude. infact, english are more likely to moan and kick up a fuss over something very small, making them even more rude in some cases.

point being you cant say everyone is something based on meeting a few people.

try meeting 100s of each as i have and then make a decission.

 

[DaGaffer]

I don't know what your problem is of late Tom but you're just coming across as a cock. I can't believe you would claim to laugh at someone who threatened to kill you and your family and then try to defend your comments with an unclear mention of context.
Here's your context, a man is standing in front of you, his face is in yours, his eyes full of hate and he's screaming that he's going to kill you, probably accusing you of murdering innocent iraq civilians. Would you laugh Tom? Would you?

I have laughed at them. Danish Embassy protest 2006. Right outside my office. The ones who wave placards are are all mouth and wouldn't touch you, they're full of shitty bravado. Its the ones who keep their heads down that have to be watched.

Pakistani racism can be scary at the personal level though; I once went out with a Pakistani girl, but I'm ashamed to say I binned her when it became clear her brothers would kick the shit out of me if they found out we were dating (she was a crap shag anyway )

The last time you looked at what? Your latest edition of treehuggers weekly? Yes America has it's problems but they're no worse than in say Australia and both these countrys populations are proud patriotic people who seem to be happy, yet Britain has/is the opposite. I once heard somebody on the news refer to it as "positive discrimination" which is a disgusting representation of some peoples beliefs in this country, because that phrase should not exist. Again my New York/ London comparison, everyone in New York was friendly and happy to help, nearly everyone in London was miserable and seemed pissed off at you for daring to make them do something.

I'm sorry, I'm with Tom on this one; America (or Australia) is no shining example of tolerance; racism is endemic and patriotism is a sticking plaster. New York is also a poor example as its probably the most tolerant city in the US (along with SF), but doesn't represent the underlying racism of the country.

Yup

Childish. Once again Tom is to a certain extent correct; religion isn't the be-all and end-all of the world's problems; its a convenient excuse, and if it wasn't there people would find another one. I'm no lover of religion, quite the reverse, but its not a simplistic "Islam makes people evil" argument. (It also amuses me that certain people on here are more tolerant of Hinduism than Islam; Hinduism is a horrible religion, one of the worst, and Hindu religious bigots are particularly nasty fuckers).

 

[DaGaffer]

i used to dislike foreigners because i always though they were rude. dont say hello, please, thank you or smile.
since working in retail i kniow that english are just as rude. infact, english are more likely to moan and kick up a fuss over something very small, making them even more rude in some cases.

point being you cant say everyone is something based on meeting a few people.

try meeting 100s of each as i have and then make a decission.

"Rudeness" is cultural and you have to make allowances. There are very few unversal norms of polite behaviour. Having said that, foreigners should make the effort to learn the cultural norms of their host country; but its not always easy; I had a Norwegian mate at Uni who simply couldn't understand why the British say thank you to a shopkeeper (usually several times). After three years in England he did it automatically, but when you actually analysed his initial objection, he was right, it doesn't actually make sense.

 

[old.Tohtori]

"Rudeness" is cultural and you have to make allowances. There are very few unversal norms of polite behaviour. Having said that, foreigners should make the effort to learn the cultural norms of their host country; but its not always easy; I had a Norwegian mate at Uni who simply couldn't understand why the British say thank you to a shopkeeper (usually several times). After three years in England he did it automatically, but when you actually analysed his initial objection, he was right, it doesn't actually make sense.

I do that too.

It's very dependent on the country, but even people here think i'm weird 'cause i say, without exception, thank you to the bus/tram/etc driver if i pass him/her on my way out

It's basically a thank you for a job well done or a service provided.

Hell, i even say thank you to the vampires who draw blood in the hospital. Makes them go "Uh?" though :lol:

 

[Bugz]

I always say thank you to bus drivers etc. too.

It's a sign of respect between two people!

 

[00dave]

I have laughed at them. Danish Embassy protest 2006. Right outside my office. The ones who wave placards are are all mouth and wouldn't touch you, they're full of shitty bravado. Its the ones who keep their heads down that have to be watched.

Oh right so when I include a context it gets ignored and a poor example is put in it's place? Did you leave your nice comfortable office at all or did you just watch from the window?
If someone is brave enough to put his face into yours he usually intends to do something, he's not all mouth because people who are all mouth make sure there's something between you before they start mouthing off.

America's patriotism is something we should all look up to because they take care of their own first, the racism probably stems from those who fail to intergrate, and who's fault is that. If I wanted to live in Japan I would learn Japanese and observe their culture rather than force mine upon them.
You see this is the problem with this country, we are not allowed to be patriotic, it's seen as racist, mostly because white people are afraid of offending the minorities. I was told to take down an England flag once in case it offended, I was living in an RAF barrack block at the time!!!

 

[DaGaffer]

I have laughed at them. Danish Embassy protest 2006. Right outside my office. The ones who wave placards are are all mouth and wouldn't touch you, they're full of shitty bravado. Its the ones who keep their heads down that have to be watched. QUOTE]

Oh right so when I include a context it gets ignored and a poor example is put in it's place? Did you leave your nice comfortable office at all or did you just watch from the window?
If someone is brave enough to put his face into yours he usually intends to do something, he's not all mouth because people who are all mouth make sure there's something between you before they start mouthing off.

America's patriotism is something we should all look up to because they take care of their own first, the racism probably stems from those who fail to intergrate, and who's fault is that. If I wanted to live in Japan I would learn Japanese and observe their culture rather than force mine upon them.
You see this is the problem with this country, we are not allowed to be patriotic, it's seen as racist, mostly because white people are afraid of offending the minorities. I was told to take down an England flag once in case it offended, I was living in an RAF barrack block at the time!!!

I had to go past them to get to the tube and I told them in no uncertain terms they were being arseholes and to fuck off out of my way. I was told off by a policeman.

America's patriotism is bullshit. Sorry, but the idea that endemic racism in the US is because people don't make the effort to "fit in" is the biggest pile of crap I've ever heard. We're not talking about racism against the Pakistani guy who just got off the plane and drives a cab, we're talking about racism against people who's ancestors have lived in America for hundreds of years! And it cuts in all directions; whites, blacks, latinos are all segregated. These cultures do no mix in anything but the most superficial way; there are even all-black universities for chrissakes.

I'm not saying the British system is better, but this idea that the US, of all places, offers a better alternative, is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Tom]

I don't know what your problem is of late Tom but you're just coming across as a cock. I can't believe you would claim to laugh at someone who threatened to kill you and your family and then try to defend your comments with an unclear mention of context.
Here's your context, a man is standing in front of you, his face is in yours, his eyes full of hate and he's screaming that he's going to kill you, probably accusing you of murdering innocent iraq civilians. Would you laugh Tom? Would you?

Why would someone do that? And yes, I'd still laugh. The silly twats who got caught throwing bottles and screaming obscenities at one-another in the recent disturbances are just that - silly twats. Any rational person would just ignore the other side and go about their protest. Obviously though a minority don't possess the control or intelligence to do that.

The last time you looked at what? Your latest edition of treehuggers weekly? Yes America has it's problems but they're no worse than in say Australia and both these countrys populations are proud patriotic people who seem to be happy, yet Britain has/is the opposite. I once heard somebody on the news refer to it as "positive discrimination" which is a disgusting representation of some peoples beliefs in this country, because that phrase should not exist. Again my New York/ London comparison, everyone in New York was friendly and happy to help, nearly everyone in London was miserable and seemed pissed off at you for daring to make them do something.

Australia, happy? This is the country that stole the children of Aboriginal Australians, and which holds boats full of illegal immigrants off its coast because "we're full". Yeah, they're certainly happy. Don't confuse patriotism with racism, oh and America's problems are just a bit worse than Australia's.

I don't want a Britain full of people who feel they have to give weighting to racial minorities, or have to invent terminology to reconnect such people with their roots. I'd rather have a Britain where people can accept that this country's culture isn't by default set in 1940's England, but is mutable and constantly changing. I'm quite happy for mosques to be built, and for people to believe what they will. I couldn't care less if people want to protest against the use of the Queen's troops, its their right.

Frankly you're cherry-picking to suit your view. I've been in plenty of London cabs and found exactly the opposite of that you claim to be true. I've also been in the US a few times and found, generally, people to be astonishingly ignorant of world-affairs.

I wouldn't claim that my experiences could be used to stereotype an entire people though, as you seem happy to do.

 

[Garaen]

I had to go past them to get to the tube and I told them in no uncertain terms they were being arseholes and to fuck off out of my way. I was told off by a policeman.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have done that if there weren't any police around, otherwise you would have been lynched.

 

[00dave]

I wouldn't claim that my experiences could be used to stereotype an entire people though, as you seem happy to do.

Actually I was quite happy to stay out of this topic until I read your shortsighted posts. And I can't believe you of all people would have the nerve to say that, you're the worst offender on these forums for having a holier than thou attitude. Your total overreaction to the fake moon landings post still baffles me.

This thread is a good example of the current situation in this country, me and Trem expressed our views and were imediately shouted down as racist, ignorant, and unfair. Yet in the next breath you'll all defend peoples right to free speech even if it is against HM forces. I don't understand why you people can't see anything wrong with that.

And again if you think you would laugh in the face of someone who threatened to kill you, it simply hasn't happened to you. I've been threatened in that way twice now, once by a pikey and once by a muslim.

 

[00dave]

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have done that if there weren't any police around, otherwise you would have been lynched.

Can you fix that please. I don't like being quoted for something I didn't say, too many shortsighted people round here.

 

[Jupitus]

Can you fix that please. I don't like being quoted for something I didn't say, too many shortsighted people round here.

Quote tag fixamondoed.

 

[old.Tohtori]

This thread is a good example of the current situation in this country, me and Trem expressed our views and were imediately shouted down as racist, ignorant, and unfair. Yet in the next breath you'll all defend peoples right to free speech even if it is against HM forces. I don't understand why you people can't see anything wrong with that.

Without taking sides, isn't that the whole point of free speech?

You can say what you think, you can say racist things(if one wanted to, not saying you do), and others have the same freedom to call you pink flamingos on acid.

 

[00dave]

Quote tag fixamondoed.

thank you

 

[00dave]

Without taking sides, isn't that the whole point of free speech?

You can say what you think, you can say racist things(if one wanted to, not saying you do), and others have the same freedom to call you pink flamingos on acid.

I see what you're saying Toh but its the way that this freedom of speech only seems to swing one way. They're allowed to speak out against HM forces with no consequence but if I were to stand in the street with a die hard style sandwich board I'd be arrested for incited racial hatred or something.
Take the dreaded N word for example, as a white man I cannot say it because it is heavily frowned upon, it's been burned into me as a racial taboo so much that I feel guilty if I were to quote a song or movie with that word in it when I was by myself. Yet I hear it all the time from black people in songs and movies in the first place, all those gaps in Kanye West songs are usually that particular word. If that is the case then it is not freedom of speech.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I see what you're saying Toh but its the way that this freedom of speech only seems to swing one way. They're allowed to speak out against HM forces with no consequence but if I were to stand in the street with a die hard style sandwich board I'd be arrested for incited racial hatred or something.
Take the dreaded N word for example, as a white man I cannot say it because it is heavily frowned upon, it's been burned into me as a racial taboo so much that I feel guilty if I were to quote a song or movie with that word in it when I was by myself. Yet I hear it all the time from black people in songs and movies in the first place, all those gaps in Kanye West songs are usually that particular word. If that is the case then it is not freedom of speech.

Fair point really.

On these forums it's quite clear we have a total freedom of speech, one can voice any and all opinions and others will answer with same freedom.

If you take that into the street, it's globbering time.

The whole thing stems from slavery and all that, white folk being rulers of the world. Now, white folk are quickly becoming the minority in some rights.

If one could wave a magic wand and make people understand stuff, i would first wave a wand to eliminate over-generalization, then i'd follow with a elimination of over-sensitivity.

It does seem that it's a pick and mix humanity, where one card is played against others yet it can't be played against you.

Then again, all that can be drawn back to the whole "i'm right, you're wrong" brickwall attitude of modern "civilization".

More to the point though, as i seemed to ramble a bit;

While i hold a firm stand on freedom of speech being something that should be FREE(no matter the message, even about spiking little kids in the eye with a badger), i also agree that it's currently not in the "real" world.

Currently it's more of a; "Freedom of speech, if you say something we like."

 

[Tom]

This thread is a good example of the current situation in this country, me and Trem expressed our views and were imediately shouted down as racist, ignorant, and unfair. Yet in the next breath you'll all defend peoples right to free speech even if it is against HM forces. I don't understand why you people can't see anything wrong with that.

Good God, and you have the cheek to call me stupid. I should put that quote in my signature, just for posterity.

And again if you think you would laugh in the face of someone who threatened to kill you, it simply hasn't happened to you. I've been threatened in that way twice now, once by a pikey and once by a muslim.

Yes of course, because the way you react to situations is obviously the way everybody else would react.

 

[Chilly]

Take the dreaded N word for example, as a white man I cannot say it because it is heavily frowned upon, it's been burned into me as a racial taboo so much that I feel guilty if I were to quote a song or movie with that word in it when I was by myself. Yet I hear it all the time from black people in songs and movies in the first place, all those gaps in Kanye West songs are usually that particular word. If that is the case then it is not freedom of speech.

***** please!

 

[Wij]

Going slightly off-topic it always amused me that most of the Yorkshire Pakistani youth dress like SoCal gangstaz and listen to hip-hop and rap yet have a rather low view of black people and their intelligence

(Note: just my experience, does not apply to everyone, not meant as generalisation, merely a whimsical observation not a criticism etc...)

 

[Garaen]

Can you fix that please. I don't like being quoted for something I didn't say, too many shortsighted people round here.

What?

 

[00dave]

Good God, and you have the cheek to call me stupid. I should put that quote in my signature, just for posterity.

Oh there's a shocker, you don't agree with it so imediately it's stupid. If I didn't know any better I'd think you were a troll but it's worse you actually believe some of the guff you come out with. I only entered this debate because I couldn't believe the misguided tripe you were posting now I've lost sight of the actual topic in this personal attack on each other we've got going.
I'll admit now that my views on America are based only on my experiences with New York and the US military so I was wrong, I'd like to see you make a similar statement because unless you've spent a significant amount of time in every state of America your information is also only based on your personal experience and what you've read, and you do pass it off as fact.

Yes of course, because the way you react to situations is obviously the way everybody else would react.

And yes it is, it's the fight or flight reaction and it's an inbuilt reaction to most human beings, only those who suffer from certain mental conditions and those who condition themselves not to be phased by certain situations can truely claim differently. Unless your one of these "I'd knock him out with one punch" morons who think they're indestructable.


No worries Garaen, Jup sorted it, slight error in the quoting system was all.

 

[pcg79]

I see what you're saying Toh but its the way that this freedom of speech only seems to swing one way. They're allowed to speak out against HM forces with no consequence but if I were to stand in the street with a die hard style sandwich board I'd be arrested for incited racial hatred or something.

yeah? thats fair, though?
speaking out against the forces is fair play - people do not have to agree with what the government and/or what soldiers are doing in afghan and iraq. they have a right to protest if they wish.
they even have a protest at forces funerals, even though that is hugely insensitive and frankly quite abhorrent.

however, intolerance by race IS racism, pure and simple. i would hope that a white man talking shit about black folk should get shafted as hard as a black guy talking arse about white folk...

 

[Ch3tan]

I got bored and read this thread. Honestly, I only had a basic religious education at school, and I can see the amount of ignorance and media fuelled crap here, if you guys believe lots of what you say then maybe you should take some time to teach yourselves? You have the net, it's not going to cost you anything but time and maybe swallowing your pride and admitting your ignorance. It's sad that it appears lots and lots of us can still take the extremes of every community and label the entire community in the same way.

Are all British football fans hooligans because of a few idiots? If you believe in stereotypes and insist on using them in your arguments then you have failed before you open your mouth for the first word.

 

[00dave]

yeah? thats fair, though?
speaking out against the forces is fair play - people do not have to agree with what the government and/or what soldiers are doing in afghan and iraq. they have a right to protest if they wish.
they even have a protest at forces funerals, even though that is hugely insensitive and frankly quite abhorrent.

however, intolerance by race IS racism, pure and simple. i would hope that a white man talking sh*t about black folk should get shafted as hard as a black guy talking ar se about white folk...

I see your point but I don't personally think name calling is as bad or disrespectful as protesting at a forces funeral, or any funeral for that matter, but I understand you were just using that as an example.
When it comes down to just name calling, calling an ethnic person by a certain name is no better or worse than calling a person with ginger hair by a certain name, or a bald person, or a fat person. At the end of the day they're all disrespectful and just as bad as each other when you think about it, but somewhere along the line someone has decided that only certain types of verbal insults are bad while others are ok.
But when it comes down to actual violent intolerence, just last week a British man in Jamaica was sadly murdered because he was believed to be gay. How is that any worse than say a black man being killed because he was black. At the end of the day someones brother/father/son/etc is dead, because of another's intolerence, and in both cases it is tragic.

 

[Tom]

Oh there's a shocker, you don't agree with it so imediately it's stupid. If I didn't know any better I'd think you were a troll but it's worse you actually believe some of the guff you come out with. I only entered this debate because I couldn't believe the misguided tripe you were posting now I've lost sight of the actual topic in this personal attack on each other we've got going.
I'll admit now that my views on America are based only on my experiences with New York and the US military so I was wrong, I'd like to see you make a similar statement because unless you've spent a significant amount of time in every state of America your information is also only based on your personal experience and what you've read, and you do pass it off as fact.

I see, so you can call me stupid, but I can't call your argument stupid? When it plainly is, for all to see?

You seriously want any condemnation or objection to the parading of soldiers through the streets banned - and you think that I'm misguided...

As for the US, I won't make any such statement. I don't need to, because I've already mentioned that I wouldn't dare use my experiences to stereotype an entire country of people. You obviously didn't read that, did you?

And yes it is, it's the fight or flight reaction and it's an inbuilt reaction to most human beings, only those who suffer from certain mental conditions and those who condition themselves not to be phased by certain situations can truely claim differently. Unless your one of these "I'd knock him out with one punch" morons who think they're indestructable.

More personal attacks. I see. Do continue, please.

 

[throdgrain]

Tom, that's not a personal attack, you massive big girl.

 

[old.user4556]

I'm so fucking tired of religion.

I'm also so fucking tired of human beings.