Anti Muslim Protests

[Marc]

Oh god aye Indians are business minded and actually they generally do well.

There are 2 countries the West would NOT fuck with and they are China and India, more so India, they are many and also pretty fucking fearless. They have an Indian Gurkha regiment iirc.........not on topic but you know......don't fuck with India

They can be as fearless as they want, wont stop them being blown up by a missile.

 

[Trem]

They can be as fearless as they want, wont stop them being blown up by a missile.

You do know they have the missile as well don't you?

 

[chipper]

tbh been expecting something like this for a few years, now the only thing that surprises me is that its took so long for a grp like this to appear. and after a little bit of digging its not the only grp in england who are opposing islam.

i read this article and the jist of the whole protest by the EDL or so they say, is a parade of soldiers a hero's welcome as it were, was jeered at by a portion of the islamic community, now personally this fucks me off. if they wanna protest the war thats fine but they can fuck off to afghan and do it there for me. i dont care what people think about the war but there are people out there risking there lives and that deserves respect regardless.

the bbc is untrustworthy when it comes to racism when its the white english kickin up a fuss they are a bunch of racist thugs but conveniently any mention of islamic marches saying behead the infidels and islam will conquer the west in a holy jihad, and frankly quite other disturbing chants and placards. well no this is generally left out of the press. so it doesnt incite racial hatred which i think is quite amusing really.

not gonna get into the whole indian/pakistani debate thats sprung up in this thread my feelings are pretty much the same as the rest of you indians tend to be really nice ppl

past caring about people shouting your a racist/facist for the slightest hint that you dislike the way this country is going and how islam is infecting the stability of this country.

wanna preach islam? then fuck off to a country who wants it. cos im pretty sure majority of the english do not.

 

[throdgrain]

Well said Chipper agree with every word. We live in a country where we're scared to say it.

 

[rynnor]

Lets not get too polarised - there may be idiots on both sides but theres still a lot of law abiding folk who are disgusted by the extremists.

This original anti-army protest was by a tiny group of extremists who were trying to polarise muslim and non-muslims to fit their worldview.

They must be loving the reaction they got with anti-muslim groups being formed to oppose them whose actions then caused further polarization.

I dont think the government has taken the right line on this stuff - if they demonise one side without saying both sides are idiots they may well just fuel things.

 

[Tom]

For a bit of balance I would like to draw your attention to this story - BBC NEWS | UK | Trio to face 'bomb plot' retrial

2 juries have failed to find them guilty - its seems crazy to consider a 3rd trial - seems like 'lets keep trying them until we get the conviction we want' which is incredibly un-constitutional.

They have been cleared of all other charges and given the emotiveness of being labelled 'terrorists' the fact that juries repeatedly fail to find them guilty is a clear sign that there isnt enough evidence to convict them.

Personally I have a great deal of faith in the jury system - it has shown on many occasions that a jury of normal people can make the right decision despite the will of those in power - the GCHQ case being a great example.

I hate the way our legal system has been warped into a twisted parody of what it once was by Politicians whipping up fear of 'terrorists'

Actually the jury in this case failed to reach a verdict. There are clear grounds for a retrial. They haven't been cleared.

 

[Tom]

Take that image on the BBC website. The EDL are portrayed as snarling, viscious "thugs", while the 3 asian lads are shown to be looking a bit scared.

BBC NEWS | Magazine | Who are the English Defence League?

If most of the EDL were as pictured, but only a few of the Asian lads were similarly violent, it would be less balanced to display violent images of each than it would be to present the images as they are.

 

[chipper]

thats bullshit tom they show the images that provoke a response to sell more papers they arent stupid

lets show some thugs beatin up some muslims thats bound to sell papers to a) those who abhor such things b) those who applaud it. they know the country is split down the middle on the issue of immigration that picture will sell a story to any side.

as i said in my earlier post where were the images of the muslim extremists doing the EXACT same thing on one of the their marches, oh wait there werent any. this is what annoys me people are so willing to believe that the problem is all one sided its the english that fuel all the racist behaviour. and its just not true. ive seen videos of muslim marches down london and pictures taken and its sickening to think they are allowed to walk along our streets and condemn our way of life it makes my blood boil.

please tell me how you would look if an extremist shouted out to you they were going to behead you infront of your childen i think id be pissed off and angry that such behaviour is allowed to occur. thats threating behaviour and i believe a criminal offence? i might be wrong apologies if i am

as usual the government is to blame if they would take a stand and say this is england its our way or the high way then neither extremist groups would exsist

im all for a nice happy world where we all live happily side by side regardless of colour or religion none of us need the shit thats currently goin off the wars in the middle east the racial hatred from all sides its not a world i want to live in your pretty fucked up in my eyes if its a world you want to live in.

i dont like islam i dont think that makes me a racist others may disagree but then again i dont like christianty or any other religion because this exactly the sort of shit it stirs up fucking religion world would be a better place without it.

 

[Tom]

Well, there was me thinking that this was the BBC we were discussing. So from what incident do you suppose the EDL spawned from, if it wasn't the demonstration by muslims against British troops marching through an English town?

I don't recall pictures of quiet muslims being attacked by thugs on that occasion. In fact I recall a lot of media coverage on the behaviour of said muslims, and the angry response from the majority of witnesses.

Papers can do whatever they like, they're commercial entities and don't have any real interest in presenting a neutral view. Public service broadcasting however - if you have proof that the images they present aren't representative of what happened, then lets see it.

Oh, if anyone said they were going to behead me or my children, I think my first response would be to laugh at them. Oh, and this may be England, but if people are protesting legally, and are citizens, then you have no moral right to say 'this is our way, like it or lump it'. Their opinion is just as valid as yours. And if you think that religion is the root cause of these problems, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[00dave]

Oh, if anyone said they were going to behead me or my children, I think my first response would be to laugh at them. Oh, and this may be England, but if people are protesting legally, and are citizens, then you have no moral right to say 'this is our way, like it or lump it'. Their opinion is just as valid as yours. And if you think that religion is the root cause of these problems, you're sadly mistaken.

My god that is by far the stupidest thing I've ever read on these forums.
Have you ever had someone threaten to kill you Tom? Believe me it's a fucking terrifying experience when you can see they mean it, one time I was threatened while I was armed, I genuinely believed that I was going to end that day dead or a killer.

Also if you think this "our way or piss off" attitude is wrong probably best if you stay away from America and Australia. One thing I noticed in New York was that there were lots of Indians, Chinese, Latin Americans etc, but they were all New Yorkers. Yesterday I was in London and the only Londoners I saw were driving the buses and trains. By that I mean nobody seemed to want to intergrate and that is the problem we have in this country.

And if you don't think religion is the route cause of all these problems then you're just stupid, religion is the route cause of nearly all the worlds problems since the stupid concept was originally thought up.

 

[Ctuchik]

Morons on both sides, morons get reported in news, the whole lot gets a bad name.

No matter what group.

well if you affiliate yourself with either group you deserve it anyway

 

[Ctuchik]

Take that image on the BBC website. The EDL are portrayed as snarling, viscious "thugs", while the 3 asian lads are shown to be looking a bit scared.

BBC NEWS | Magazine | Who are the English Defence League?

they forgot to finish their nazi cross on that shirt tho... someone should probably point that out for them so they wont be laughed at...

 

[SilverHood]

I don't think people are opposing Islam per se. It's like being against Christians. Or Buddhists. What people object to, I think, is how they, the practising Muslims, let religion define them as a person, before anything else.

Over here you American Italians. African Americans. Pakistani-American.
They are defined by their heritage.

In England, you don't have that definition... everyone is defined by their religion. The Sikhs of Birmingham. The Muslims of Bradford.

So when you speak out about a group - take African Americans being more likely to rob you in the street in Manhattan than any other group, then that's just stating how it is in Manhattan.

Say that Muslims are more likely to assault you in Bradford than any other ethnic or social group, woah, dangerous ground there. You're insulting religion there. And they'll beat you over the head with a stick if you even suggest that their religion condones violence. You had better apologise, or some cleric in Egypt will use England and the Great Satan in the same sentence. They might do anyway.

On a side note, having been an immigrant in both England and the USA, I can say that Englands problem is that it's too easy to live there as a foreigner.
Anyone who goes through the hoops of the US Immigration process had better want to live over here and become part of America. In England, you turn up, you get your indefinite stay visa, and you have a free ride. It's the end of the road for many. In the USA, getting permission to work here is just the begining.

 

[ECA]

I dunno what you're call complaining about, it's a natural material made from cotton.
It might be old fashioned but it's still perfectly useable.

 

[chipper]

frankly tom i find your attitude slightly worrying and naive you ever experienced pure hate? snarling at you with hatred in their eyes? saying you would laugh is a ridiculous thing to say i know for a fact if anyone threatened my kids and i thought they meant it i would kick the living shit out of em.


google images type in muslim protest im sorry i cant find the vids i think they have been taken down which is a shame because it showed these islam extremists as the sick bastards they are. and you can see they wholeheartedly believe the west should be wiped out.

this problem isnt going to go away we cannot bury our heads in the sand and hope it just passes over people have lost faith in the government to address there concern and the by product of that is these grps like the EDL things are only going to degrade further and eventually its going to bubble over someone is going to go too far and this country will erupt. the government need to stop panicking about been so PC and do something.

 

[old.Tohtori]

well if you affiliate yourself with either group you deserve it anyway

Fair enough point, you have to accept some fault in whatever group you're in. You knew what you were getting into, so to say.(Different case if you're born into a group really, but let's not start that debate again )

More towards the people looking from the outside, shouldn't judge them all by the morons.

 

[Trem]

I have yet to see a more racist group than Muslims, even the peaceful muslims dislike anyone but their own kind. I am speaking from experience here.

As said before, you can only call white people racists in this country though.

 

[Chilly]

I have yet to see a more racist group than Muslims, even the peaceful muslims dislike anyone but their own kind. I am speaking from experience here.

As said before, you can only call white people racists in this country though.

This post, and in fact this thread in general, is full of racist, facist, narrow minded bullshit. I think it's a fucking travesty that someone can say the above and believe it. It's obviously bollocks. Trem: you have personal experience of all muslims? or just the 5, 10, 20 you've met at some point? Or did you read it in the papers, or in a thread by one of the BNP on here?

Makes me sick.

 

[Trem]

This post, and in fact this thread in general, is full of racist, facist, narrow minded bullshit. I think it's a fucking travesty that someone can say the above and believe it. It's obviously bollocks. Trem: you have personal experience of all muslims? or just the 5, 10, 20 you've met at some point? Or did you read it in the papers, or in a thread by one of the BNP on here?

Makes me sick.

Ha!

So the Muslim religion is not racist? Does it not teach that anyone who is in fact not Muslim is pretty much scum? How many wars in the last 50 years has been either between Muslims and others or started by the religion?

Tell me what is your experience of the above mentioned, is your experience listening to Labour tree huggers and the manual on how to be PC?

But yes you are right, I speak out about other people and I am a white English man so I MUST be racist. How awkward would you feel if I was Indian or Black? Would you allow me to speak out then, would that be fine?

 

[old.Tohtori]

I have yet to see a more racist group than Muslims, even the peaceful muslims dislike anyone but their own kind. I am speaking from experience here.

As said before, you can only call white people racists in this country though.

Don't you think it's a case of tit for tat?

A lot of white people consider muslims as you do.
So a lot of muslims consider white people as such.
More white people come across muslims who think that.
More muslims meet white people who think like that.

And so forth.

You should never judge every jelly baby as a hardened non-edible one, just because you happen to chew on a stale one.

On the point of "doesn't muslim teach that all others are scum", it's not as clear cut and is more comparable to the christian way of "every non-christian is a pagan". Unpure, non-believer etc. No different before the zealots get a hold of the line, in any religion.

 

[pcg79]

Ha!

So the Muslim religion is not racist? Does it not teach that anyone who is in fact not Muslim is pretty much scum?

Tell me what is your experience of the above mentioned, is your experience listening to Labour tree huggers and the manual on how to be PC?

But yes you are right, I speak out about other people and I am a white English man so I MUST be racist.

im 'roman catholic' myself (in name only), but know lots of muslims. none are violent or intolerant of me/my family/non muslims in general.
as far as i know, islam doesnt teach that everyone non-muslim is scum. i remember hearing some stuff about recognising jesus and that jews/christians are likely to be saved alongside muslims at the end of time. its the militant ***** who feed people the nonsense about violence against non muslims.

 

[Bugz]

I have yet to see a more racist group than Muslims, even the peaceful muslims dislike anyone but their own kind. I am speaking from experience here.

As said before, you can only call white people racists in this country though.

Trem that is crap.

This whole thread is a miss-matched view of opinions that seem to stem from hate or lack of knowledge, as opposed to any logical thinking pattern. For a forum of intelligent, 20 and 30 somethings, it just goes to show how badly the religious disparities and problems within the country and indeed Europe as a whole are forcing all the population to turn their thought patterns into relating the hostile and fearful few into the stereotypical-hit whole.

 

[old.Tohtori]

This whole thread is a miss-matched view of opinions that seem to stem from hate or lack of knowledge, as opposed to any logical thinking pattern. For a forum of intelligent, 20 and 30 somethings, it just goes to show how badly the religious disparities and problems within the country and indeed Europe as a whole are forcing all the population to turn their thought patterns into relating the hostile and fearful few into the stereotypical-hit whole.

I wouldn't limit that on religion though.

It's anything really, anti-religion, football, preferred brand of oranges etc.

 

[Trem]

As I said I am speaking from experience.

My cousin has had a baby by a Pakistani and she is going out with him, you think she has ever met any of his family or you think he would dare tell them about the baby? He is for the most part a decent hard working man but there is no way in hell he will meet any of us or she will be allowed to meet any of them.

I can't say anything can I, I am too English and white to say anything outspoken but I do get the feeling there is a definite divide in this country between the Northern Muslims and the Southern, I bought a car off a Pakistani in London once and his family were lovely as was he but I have never met one that doesn't look like he wants to spit on me up here. Maybe its because I shave my head, shaved head+English+white = Adolf!!! Obviously.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I bought a car off a Pakistani in London once and his family were lovely as was he but I have never met one that doesn't look like he wants to spit on me up here.

Didn't you just say that ALL of them are like that?

Because it seems that you're switching from all to some. (just noting, not pointing finger and going "hitler!")

In my opinion you can hate others as much as you want, hell, this whole planet is one big battleground(just look at nature). But you have to also take the things that come with it. I could spread the KKK messages along these boards, but i'd well accept that i'd get a lo of people bashing my ehead in.

 

[Zenith.UK]

the bbc is untrustworthy when it comes to racism when its the white english kickin up a fuss they are a bunch of racist thugs but conveniently any mention of islamic marches saying behead the infidels and islam will conquer the west in a holy jihad, and frankly quite other disturbing chants and placards. well no this is generally left out of the press. so it doesnt incite racial hatred which i think is quite amusing really.

Two words.

Common
Purpose

(2 links)

 

[Trem]

Didn't you just say that ALL of them are like that?

Because it seems that you're switching from all to some. (just noting, not pointing finger and going "hitler!")

In my opinion you can hate others as much as you want, hell, this whole planet is one big battleground(just look at nature). But you have to also take the things that come with it. I could spread the KKK messages along these boards, but i'd well accept that i'd get a lo of people bashing my ehead in.

I said Muslims for the most part, I don't know if the religion uses them or they use the religion and after all I was buying a car so maybe they were just being nice to me or maybe they were simply nice people, but I don't live in London I live in the Midlands so I am going off what I have grown up with and what I see in the world.

I get riled when people accuse me of being racist, I aren't, I am a white Englishman who says what he sees (Catchphrase!!), I have been called narrow minded but surely its narrow minded to say all are great and perfect etc.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I said Muslims for the most part, I don't know if the religion uses them or they use the religion and after all I was buying a car so maybe they were just being nice to me or maybe they were simply nice people, but I don't live in London I live in the Midlands so I am going off what I have grown up with and what I see in the world.

I get riled when people accuse me of being racist, I aren't, I am a white Englishman who says what he sees (Catchphrase!!), I have been called narrow minded but surely its narrow minded to say all are great and perfect etc.

Fair enough, i just read the "even the peaceful muslims are..." as a complete generalization(term, not accusation).

Someone who thinks all is well, is as delusional as the one who hates everything and thinks everything is poo.

I think it's fair to have a pre-conception of a group, especialyl if all you've had is bad experiences, AS LONG as you don't judge every member of that group with it and are open to seeing other sides.

Ofcourse i don't have to LIKE someone being this way or that way about certain groups, but i'd rather have total freedom to choose to do so then a military regime choosing what to think. PC brigade are doing a fine job in controlling people.

 

[Fweddy]

On a side note, having been an immigrant in both England and the USA, I can say that Englands problem is that it's too easy to live there as a foreigner.
Anyone who goes through the hoops of the US Immigration process had better want to live over here and become part of America. In England, you turn up, you get your indefinite stay visa, and you have a free ride. It's the end of the road for many. In the USA, getting permission to work here is just the begining.

This tbh.

 

[Tom]

My god that is by far the stupidest thing I've ever read on these forums.
Have you ever had someone threaten to kill you Tom? Believe me it's a fucking terrifying experience when you can see they mean it, one time I was threatened while I was armed, I genuinely believed that I was going to end that day dead or a killer.

You can't have read much then. Context is everything.

Also if you think this "our way or piss off" attitude is wrong probably best if you stay away from America and Australia. One thing I noticed in New York was that there were lots of Indians, Chinese, Latin Americans etc, but they were all New Yorkers. Yesterday I was in London and the only Londoners I saw were driving the buses and trains. By that I mean nobody seemed to want to intergrate and that is the problem we have in this country.

The last time I looked, America was a country suffering from crippling levels of racism that are deep-rooted within its society. The phrase 'African-American' doesn't exist because people see themselves as American. Try looking at the recent racist attacks on Barack Obama, crudely disguised as political dogma. America stopped integrating a long time ago.

And if you don't think religion is the route cause of all these problems then you're just stupid, religion is the route cause of nearly all the worlds problems since the stupid concept was originally thought up.

Ok, I'm stupid. You're plainly an intellectual genius then, I won't bother explaining in detail how most of the world's problems are to do with power, land, and influence. Religion is just a convenient excuse for the use of people who understand things only at a prima facie level.