No idea Another Selfish Suicide? (Germanwings Crash)

[Tom]

Oh do get off your high horse you insufferable cretin. I can fully understand the effects mental illness can have on people, but to suggest this all happened because he was ill and not because he was well, a psychopath is taking the whole understanding thing just a little bit too far.

I mean what's next? Do we pardon Jeffrey Dalmer as he wasn't wired up right?

He had a note from the Doctor saying that it wasn't safe for him to take charge of 150 people's lives. He chose to tear this up and fly anyway. Those are not the actions of a manic depressive. Those are the actions of a psychopat, and to even attempt to put any of this down as depression is massively disrespectful to those millions of people who do suffer from it.

Use whatever words you like, chances are he was suffering from some kind of mental disorder. It really doesn't matter what that disorder was. Perhaps if we, as a society, didn't treat mental illness as a social taboo, people like him would be more open and honest about their condition. Perhaps if businesses employing people responsible for many lives were legally required to protect the health and well-being of their employees, those employees might not try to hide their condition.

Just pointing at him and declaring him to be a nutter won't stop this from happening again.

 

[Scouse]

He had a note from the Doctor saying that it wasn't safe for him to take charge of 150 people's lives.

...perhaps his state of mind was not correct?

And on top of that - you've diagnosed him as a psychopath. Like any member of the great unwashed you've decided what he is and are condemning him for it without any evidence...

 

[Moriath]

Everything in the papers was poor journalism based off half facts and early statements. No one has the whole picture of this guy just snippets that are circulating.

To determine what it was that moved him to do this at the moment is speculation at best.

Unfortunately the press have pushed a lot of people to jump up and down and blame depression. What are you going to do. Stop anyone with depression from flying a plane? How do you determine if they are depressed? You will just push the mental illness into the dark even more and people will cover up, you become a good actor when your depressed just to fit I .

Will you then stop them driving cars? Being surgeons? Where does the stigma stop?

 

[Job]

Cure for depression...works everytime.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0V4TZAyd8I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Bodhi]

...perhaps his state of mind was not correct?

And on top of that - you've diagnosed him as a psychopath. Like any member of the great unwashed you've decided what he is and are condemning him for it without any evidence...

The main reason there's no evidence is that he smeared it across an Alp at 500 mph, but it's not a massive leap of logic to declare someone who's killed 150 people is a psychopath. The killing 150 people is a bit of a clue....

 

[Scouse]

The main reason there's no evidence is that he smeared it across an Alp at 500 mph, but it's not a massive leap of logic to declare someone who's killed 150 people is a psychopath. The killing 150 people is a bit of a clue....

It's not just a massive leap of logic - it's blinkered, ill-considered conjecture.

It's a knee-jerk reaction of hatred. A-la my original post about it.

 

[Job]

I'm more interested in what type of thought process he went through to decide to kill everyone...were they just colaterol damage from his desire to end it quickly or did he feel it gave his death a more perverse meaning , maybe trying to validate his pain by sharing it out.
Probably he was scared to die and felt comforted by taking so many with him.

 

[Jupitus]

Probably he was scared to die and felt comforted by taking so many with him.

Great analysis there, you fucking first class twonk.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No one will ever know what his thought process was, not even the best psychoanalysts in the world.

While unlikely as f*ck, but it could be he had an alzheimer type attack in the brain, thought he was alone and thought the alps were a runway for him to land his cesna.

We just don't know.

 

[caLLous]

Well, according to an ex, he did say everybody was going to remember his name or something along those lines, so it's not a massive stretch to assume that he wanted to do something more than just quietly jump off a bridge or what have you.

No one will ever know what his thought process was, not even the best psychoanalysts in the world.

While unlikely as f*ck, but it could be he had an alzheimer type attack in the brain, thought he was alone and thought the alps were a runway for him to land his cesna.

We just don't know.

While I can see your angle, the processes he had to go through in order to prevent the pilot from getting into the cockpit and ignoring all contact from outside the cockpit and the ground kind of rubbish that idea completely.

 

[Job]

Great analysis there, you fucking first class twonk.

I didn't realise analysis were graded these days, I think that's a reasonable suggestion for an unstable mind.
Or maybe he just forgot how to plane.

 

[old.Tohtori]

While I can see your angle, the processes he had to go through in order to prevent the pilot from getting into the cockpit and ignoring all contact from outside the cockpit and the ground kind of rubbish that idea completely.

Yeah fair enough, poor example. Keeping to my point though, can't really read minds yet.

 

[Yoni]

Had it been definitely ruled out that he wasn't being bribed for exemple? After reading everything above no one is really any closer to knowing what happened, nor will we. All that can be done is to improve safety and screening measures...

 

[Moriath]

Had it been definitely ruled out that he wasn't being bribed for exemple? After reading everything above no one is really any closer to knowing what happened, nor will we. All that can be done is to improve safety and screening measures...

Screening for what? There's that stigma again. Ban any pilot with depression? 1 in five people have it. That would be a large proportion of the qualified pilots. Or you say you can't fly if your depressed?

 

[caLLous]

"Kill yourself and a plane-load of passengers for us and we'll give you some money." How does that work exactly?

 

[old.Tohtori]

"Kill yourself and a plane-load of passengers for us and we'll give you some money." How does that work exactly?

That's how some of criminal elements work. They pay your family a whole sum to be in "good living" while you risk your life(or indeed end it).

Kind of like a person killing themselves(obviously as an accident) to claim death insurance so their family can have the cash.

 

[DaGaffer]

Use whatever words you like, chances are he was suffering from some kind of mental disorder. It really doesn't matter what that disorder was. Perhaps if we, as a society, didn't treat mental illness as a social taboo, people like him would be more open and honest about their condition. Perhaps if businesses employing people responsible for many lives were legally required to protect the health and well-being of their employees, those employees might not try to hide their condition.

Just pointing at him and declaring him to be a nutter won't stop this from happening again.

Yes, fine, but be careful what you wish for. Accommodating mental health has a dark side; mandatory checks, companies "protecting" themselves from being sued etc etc and unlike physical disability, massively open to abuse by unscrupulous employers.

 

[Jupitus]

I didn't realise analysis were graded these days, I think that's a reasonable suggestion for an unstable mind.
Or maybe he just forgot how to plane.

'Probably' rather than 'maybe' or 'perhaps' ???

 

[Tom]

massively open to abuse by unscrupulous employers.

Which may well be why he apparently chose to hide his condition from his employers. Were they legally required to care for him, he might have sought help.

 

[Scouse]

Had it been definitely ruled out that he wasn't being bribed

Blackmail crossed my mind.

Target someone vulnerable...

But then again, that's just conjecture.

 

[caLLous]

Which may well be why he apparently chose to hide his condition from his employers. Were they legally required to care for him, he might have sought help.

But everybody has been going on about how irrational his behaviour was, what makes you think he would do something rational like seek help if it was offered?

 

[Moriath]

But everybody has been going on about how irrational his behaviour was, what makes you think he would do something rational like seek help if it was offered?

True. It took me ages to figure out what was wrong with me and even longer to work out how to get out of it.

Went through my employer trying to buy me off and everything. In the uk an employer has a responsibility to their employees.

Will probably disjoint this discussion cause Tom has me blocked but there you go.

 

[DaGaffer]

Which may well be why he apparently chose to hide his condition from his employers. Were they legally required to care for him, he might have sought help.

They are legally required to care for him. They're a German employer. Doesn't mean he'd be allowed to fly though.

 

[Tom]

But everybody has been going on about how irrational his behaviour was, what makes you think he would do something rational like seek help if it was offered?

I'm speaking generally. I didn't for one moment suggest he would do something rational, I suggested that it might have been more likely that he would.

 

[Tom]

They are legally required to care for him. They're a German employer. Doesn't mean he'd be allowed to fly though.

Nobody knows if his ability to fly was more important to him than his ability to pay the bills, so this is getting rather pointless now.

 

[Moriath]

Nobody knows if his ability to fly was more important to him than his ability to pay the bills, so this is getting rather pointless now.

Exactly what I thpught a post mirroring mine made pointless because of this stupid if ore function. Petition to remove the pointless and erroneous ignore function. That makes the forums disjointed and pointless.

 

[DaGaffer]

Nobody knows if his ability to fly was more important to him than his ability to pay the bills, so this is getting rather pointless now.

Yes, but can you see where this might go? If the employee can't be relied on to self-report, the employer might have to pro-actively make judgements about their employees' mental health; which is fraught with problems.

 

[Talivar]

The problem for me is our cultures need for simplification. We take things like Depression and Autism and other conditions and we lump them into "box's". The reality is there is a massive spectrum of symptoms and connected issues so saying person A has Depression and so does person B so they must be treat the same is flawed. We need in depth analysis for everyone and we have to look past the stigma and find a way to stop hiding them, this means protecting them legally from employers but also forcing them to stop hiding things from employers.
At the end of the day it would help us a lot if we could then see that -
Person A suffers depression, struggles to find motivation, does not see the point in it all but still has a level of caring and empathy for others
Person B suffers depression, has been treated for suicidal tendencies over a long period, expressed a desire for his name to be remembered after he has gone

Person B would and SHOULD flag up as dangerous in certain jobs while they are in a depressive state.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, let's play devil avocado here;

Would you rather fire all people who might on an offchance snap, or risk 150 peoples lives on it?

Maybe not all jobs are meant for those "1 in 5".

 

[Talivar]

Well for me i would gladly employ person A but would not employ person B for certain jobs. As long as we simplify it and have a stigma we will always be stuck in this situation. Would people be arguing as much if we was debating if a Blind and Deaf person had crashed the plane?