No idea Another Selfish Suicide? (Germanwings Crash)

[Urgat]

Oh no, that's what I'm implying.

Watch the documentary, especially the second part, there's people on there that have made their selves 'insane' in order avoid prison, one guy has made himself believe that all lawyers are in a baby-raping syndicate, so he can't be in the same room as the lawyers, so therefore the courts declared that he's unfit to stand trial.

Now, I'm not implying that the co-pilot was in the same boat as the guy I just described, but the way that everyone keeps going on and describing it, and trying to blame the airline is almost trying to redefine mental health issues and more so depression.



You're more or less making my point, the way that I'm seeing the media portray it is that having some kind of bi-polar disorder is the same as having depression, where it's not.

More so, there's obviously different levels of most mental disorders, it's like saying autistic people are all equally autistic when that clearly isn't the case.

I have not paid any attention to the media coverage. They will, as usual, misrepresent the role that mental illness took.

My posts are concerning the guy himself, and the state of mind he was in at the time.

This wasn't "depression" it was something far more Deep seated.

 

[Gwadien]

I have not paid any attention to the media coverage. They will, as usual, misrepresent the role that mental illness took.

My posts are concerning the guy himself, and the state of mind he was in at the time.

This wasn't "depression" it was something far more Deep seated.

What if it wasn't though?

What if it was -just- depression and one day he was in a stupidly cuntish mood?

I guess no-one will know, and the only evidence there is the depression thing, so that will come down to be blamed, and therefore the blame will shift from him to 3rd parties, which is my major concern.

 

[Bodhi]

Ok this is the kind of ignorant bullshit that prompted my first post.
You are cluless.
Inform yourself on a subject. Then post.

I have informed myself on the subject. He was a cunt. He flew a plane full of people into a mountain. Are you suggesting it's possible to do so and not be a massive cunt?

 

[Urgat]

Are you suggesting it's possible to do so and not be a massive cunt?

That is exactly what I am suggesting.

 

[caLLous]

Well, you have to understand that, from the general public's point of view, that's just not going to fly (so to speak). By all means do yourself in but taking 150 innocents with you elevates you to cunt status, regardless.

 

[Scouse]

Does that mean he's void of all blame though? - If he wasn't 'thinking straight' would that be enough to shift the blame from him to his mental illness?

What's the point of blame?

You could point at him and say "he's to blame", or at his illness and say "that's to blame", but what does that get you, constructively speaking?

 

[Urgat]

Well, you have to understand that, from the general public's point of view, that's just not going to fly (so to speak). By all means do yourself in but taking 150 innocents with you elevates you to cunt status, regardless.

I understand that ignorant public perception will paint him as a cunt.

My point is, though, that ignorance doesnt change the fact that he might NOT be a cunt... If he was mentally ill.

 

[Scouse]

Well, you have to understand that, from the general public's point of view, that's just not going to fly (so to speak). By all means do yourself in but taking 150 innocents with you elevates you to cunt status, regardless.

Yep, but the general public, myself included, are this on the vast majority of subjects:

 

[caLLous]

I understand that ignorant public perception will paint him as a cunt.

My point is, though, that ignorance doesnt change the fact that he might NOT be a cunt... If he was mentally ill.

But then public perception will counter that with "err yes he was a cunt because he killed 150 innocents". Explaining away Robin Williams or Gary Speed or whoever is one thing, but this is a situation where people who understand about depression will never be able to alter peoples' views.

 

[Urgat]

But then public perception will counter that with "err yes he was a cunt because he killed 150 innocents". Explaining away Robin Williams or Gary Speed or whoever is one thing, but this is a situation where people who understand about depression will never be able to alter peoples' views.

Does that mean we shouldn't TRY when these issues come to the forefront?

 

[DaGaffer]

Does that mean we shouldn't TRY when these issues come to the forefront?

And what outcome would you expect/desire from such a debate? Seriously, I genuinely don't see where you would expect such a conversation to go.

 

[Urgat]

And what outcome would you expect/desire from such a debate? Seriously, I genuinely don't see where you would expect such a conversation to go.

Better understanding of the issue by the wider public.
Better representation of the issue by the media.
Better support for sufferers.

You know... Like other illnesses that were viewed with a stigma.. That eventually came to be better understood and accepted. AIDS for example.

 

[Bodhi]

Must admit my sympathies are with the 150 people who died and their families, not the nutter who decided it would be a good idea to fly them into a mountain.

 

[Hawkwind]

I fully appreciate where your coming from Urgat but he had a responsibility to his passengers first and foremost. If he was in anyway distressed he knows full well he should have stopped flying. It is drummed into pilots thoroughly throughout their training. From what I have read today he was advised as much by professionals (Psychiatrist). He was on meds which should have been reported to his Fleet Captain/Union Reps. Why he kept flying and kept it all hidden only he will know. It is basic Human Factors training in the industry that nothing should be hidden that could in anyway affect an aircraft or crew. It is one of the fundamental rules of aviation safety.

 

[old.Tohtori]

What's the point of blame?

You could point at him and say "he's to blame", or at his illness and say "that's to blame", but what does that get you, constructively speaking?

Because people can't cope with "sh*t happens". Everything needs to be blamed/explained or otherwise the fact that universe is random and your life hangs on the balance of a beetles fart might have to be accepted.

 

[DaGaffer]

Better understanding of the issue by the wider public.
Better representation of the issue by the media.
Better support for sufferers.

You know... Like other illnesses that were viewed with a stigma.. That eventually came to be better understood and accepted. AIDS for example.

Honestly don't think a guy who's killed 150 people is the best place to start that debate. If anything, shining too much of a light on mental health issues in this particular case could actually make things a lot worse.

 

[Talivar]

Its a slippery slope because IF we look at it from the view that he was not in full control and therefor it is not his fault, then we have to move down the remove from positions of responsibility route because how can we trust peoples life's to people who are not in control of their own actions?

 

[Scouse]

the fact that universe is random and your life hangs on the balance of a beetles fart might have to be accepted.

I accept that totally. It's reality.

Makes things a lot simpler and happier.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I accept that totally. It's reality.

Makes things a lot simpler and happier.

Talking majority here ofcourse

i've never understood the need for humans to explain and rationalise every single thing. Well, i've understood it, just think it's silly.

 

[Job]

I had strangely similar problems to this pilot, I developed Tinnitus which was driving me mad, then I developed vision problems.
Ended getting shit in work for not concentrating, but no one believed me because tinnitus is entirely your own experience and the eye problems couldn't be detected by eye scans...so I shrank into my own world which then led to paranoia, I was never suicidal, just wanted to retreat from the rat race...which eventually I kinda have.

 

[Job]

Oh Lord of fuck, turns out they were screaming for 5 mins.
Jesus...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ore-plane-crashed-into-mountain-10142936.html

 

[Urgat]

Must admit my sympathies are with the 150 people who died and their families.

With this i whole-heartedly agree.

Honestly don't think a guy who's killed 150 people is the best place to start that debate. If anything, shining too much of a light on mental health issues in this particular case could actually make things a lot worse.

Given the media attention, and coverage of this particular story... You may well be correct.

Its a slippery slope because IF we look at it from the view that he was not in full control and therefor it is not his fault, then we have to move down the remove from positions of responsibility route because how can we trust peoples life's to people who are not in control of their own actions?

Absolutely. I think mental health professionals SHOULD have the power to report or even remove remove individuals from positions of responsibility if they belive the individual is at risk of harming those under them. In this case it would seem "recommendations" were ignored.

 

[Talivar]

I agree Urgat but people are too selfish to ever accept this, just look at the Jeremy Clarkson thing, when something interferes with their life they will whine and bitch and oppose it even if its the "right" thing that's been done. So we will have many that could be restricted by a new Law or policy going no that's infringing on my human rights!! and many who it doesn't restrict going yes please add this law or policy!

 

[Bodhi]

By the way please don't think I'm being unsympathetic to those with mental health issues as I'm not - I've suffered from Anxiety as long as I can remember, and the gf suffers from depression, so no issues on that side from me.

However, if you want to raise awareness of depression, this situation is not the one to do it in, if anything it will make the stigmatisation worse, as the great unwashed will link depression with the animal who killed 150 innocent people.

 

[Moriath]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thin...does-not-make-people-a-danger-to-society.html

Please read this. .

 

[Scouse]

However, if you want to raise awareness of depression, this situation is not the one to do it in, if anything it will make the stigmatisation worse, as the great unwashed will link depression with the animal who killed 150 innocent people.

Bodhs - it looks like you sympathise with people who've got mental illnesses that you can relate to (anxiety, depression) but you're just as venomous as the great unwashed towards someone who clearly had other mental health issues.

Why is it so hard to see that this is a lose-lose situation? Yes, it's appropriate to call the loss of all the passengers a tragedy. It's also appropriate to understand that this "animal" suffered from a tragic mental illness - otherwise he wouldn't have killed himself and all of his passengers.

Hate towards any of the people involved is an inappropriate response. Deep frustration possibly - but hatred of an individual who was clearly very sick?

What does that achieve, exactly?

 

[old.Tohtori]

What does that achieve, exactly?

Kind of a similar thing i mentioned previous. People find someone to blame, a reason, then they can sleep at night because the matter is "closed" because someone is to blame.

You have a girlfriend, associate

 

[Bodhi]

Bodhs - it looks like you sympathise with people who've got mental illnesses that you can relate to (anxiety, depression) but you're just as venomous as the great unwashed towards someone who clearly had other mental health issues.

Why is it so hard to see that this is a lose-lose situation? Yes, it's appropriate to call the loss of all the passengers a tragedy. It's also appropriate to understand that this "animal" suffered from a tragic mental illness - otherwise he wouldn't have killed himself and all of his passengers.

Hate towards any of the people involved is an inappropriate response. Deep frustration possibly - but hatred of an individual who was clearly very sick?

What does that achieve, exactly?

Oh do get off your high horse you insufferable cretin. I can fully understand the effects mental illness can have on people, but to suggest this all happened because he was ill and not because he was well, a psychopath is taking the whole understanding thing just a little bit too far.

I mean what's next? Do we pardon Jeffrey Dalmer as he wasn't wired up right?

He had a note from the Doctor saying that it wasn't safe for him to take charge of 150 people's lives. He chose to tear this up and fly anyway. Those are not the actions of a manic depressive. Those are the actions of a psychopat, and to even attempt to put any of this down as depression is massively disrespectful to those millions of people who do suffer from it.

 

[Hawkwind]

@old.Tohtori It's called closure. People trying to make sense out of a senseless act. Human nature...

 

[old.Tohtori]

@old.Tohtori It's called closure. People trying to make sense out of a senseless act. Human nature...

I get closure when it's something that you need closure with, it's just silly that people apply it to everything. I don't think it should be called that really, more of an "i can now feel good about myself and ignore this matter because i said xyz" thing.