Anders Brevik had a point...

[Scouse]

What a desperately naive statement.

What a desparately cynical and hopeless statement

 

[DaGaffer]

What a desparately cynical and hopeless statement

It's not cynical; it's practical; completely free movement would end with humanity roaming the planet deprading prosperity like a plague of locusts. Sometimes frictionless systems are actually a bad thing. The better aspiration is to create wealth locally, not follow it around trying to grab scraps of wealth.

 

[Scouse]

Perhaps a better aspiration for humans isn't to focus on the "wealth" of mankind

 

[TdC]

child benefit increased if only 1 parent was working + the equivalent of job seekers allowance (admittedly if you quit your job you had to wait a few months before getting it, but pregnancy lasts longer than the waiting period )

its a bit of a gamble, but aren't most people trying to maximize their incomes all the time? (is that not the point in capitalism?)

so the point i was making was rather than using only stick to beat "welfare scroungers" perhaps a bit of carrot now and then would do some good

mmmkay iirc everyone gets child support, but voluntarily staying at home to become a housewife/man doesn't get you anything surely? one becomes dependent on the worker who provides income, no? could be I know nothing ofc

 

[DaGaffer]

Perhaps a better aspiration for humans isn't to focus on the "wealth" of mankind

Away with your hippie horseshit; you know exactly what I mean anyway.

 

[old.Tohtori]

How's this for a world curing statement; stop being dicks.

That's it. In every aspect.

 

[DaGaffer]

mmmkay iirc everyone gets child support, but voluntarily staying at home to become a housewife/man doesn't get you anything surely? one becomes dependent on the worker who provides income, no? could be I know nothing ofc

Not in Ireland. Missus gets social welfare and various other payments for a year after her statutory maternity pay runs out. They've cut child benefit a bit in the latest budget, but overall, if you factor in the costs of full time childcare (really expensive), the missus would need to make approx. €37K to make going back to work a break even proposition, never mind an actually attractive one. Her social welfare payment is means tested and she doesn't get the full whack, but she still gets a fair amount. The slightly unfair aspect from my POV is that for social welfare purposes we're treated as married (although we're not), but for tax purposes we're treated as single, so I can't use her allowances as I'd be able to in the UK. Which one of the reasons why we're getting married next year (how romantic). Having said all that her social welfare will be cut completely next summer so then we'll be completely single income (hopefully her retraining will score her a decent job by then because she was on a decent whack before she was made redundant and it was the difference between "OK" and "comfortable").

 

[Scouse]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgqeL0AvZfo

 

[TdC]

Not in Ireland. Missus gets social welfare and various other payments for a year after her statutory maternity pay runs out. They've cut child benefit a bit in the latest budget, but overall, if you factor in the costs of full time childcare (really expensive), the missus would need to make approx. €37K to make going back to work a break even proposition, never mind an actually attractive one. Her social welfare payment is means tested and she doesn't get the full whack, but she still gets a fair amount. The slightly unfair aspect from my POV is that for social welfare purposes we're treated as married (although we're not), but for tax purposes we're treated as single, so I can't use her allowances as I'd be able to in the UK. Which one of the reasons why we're getting married next year (how romantic). Having said all that her social welfare will be cut completely next summer so then we'll be completely single income (hopefully her retraining will score her a decent job by then because she was on a decent whack before she was made redundant and it was the difference between "OK" and "comfortable").

wow...I have two friends who have a child, an that was bam! straight back to work for her after 3 months otherwise they couldn't really hack it. they're doing all kinds of things, like scaling back the car, etc to save stuffs. they don't have maximum child-care, and she works 4 while he works 4,5, and they make it with help from the grandparents (kind of traditional Dutch thing)

 

[Moriath]

What a desperately naive statement.

I dont think so. I am saying i would like to travel and move around the planet without restriction and i believe everyone should be able to. Im not saying that as things stand at the moment we in the west wouldnt get millions of people from india / africa etc coming in and making conditions worse for us with overcrowding etc. I am saying in a perfect world everyones living standards would be the same and we should be free to live in the places we want to rather than where will accept us.

 

[throdgrain]

Actually was thinking the other way round. There's little to no anti immigration sentiment in London, apart from a few isolated places.

I live in an area where there are lots of immigrants, they call it Langley Desh instead of Langley Green round here, in true British humour if you think about it I dont hate immigrants, I'm pretty freindly with people on the whole. Having said that, I am anti-immigration.

Why? Because you cant go blaming individual people for nationwide policy.

Also, there is little anti sentiment in London these days because most the the indiginous population have fucked off to Essex years ago.

 

[DaGaffer]

wow...I have two friends who have a child, an that was bam! straight back to work for her after 3 months otherwise they couldn't really hack it. they're doing all kinds of things, like scaling back the car, etc to save stuffs. they don't have maximum child-care, and she works 4 while he works 4,5, and they make it with help from the grandparents (kind of traditional Dutch thing)

I'm fortunate that I earn a decent salary (above the threshold that the begrudgers in Ireland call "rich") and we're not stuck with a massive mortgage or anything, so we're OK, but we've still had to cut back on lots of things, and I've had to put thoughts of new cars and the like on hold for the forseeable future. TBH the missus probably would have gone back to work at the end of her maternity leave (as she did with our first) if she hadn't been made redundant. Problem we have is that family help is a bit of a non-starter; the missus has a severely autistic brother, so her parents have to put him first, and my Mum is back in the UK, so you're stuck with the childcare market, and that's why we ended up with an Au Pair, its actually one of the cheaper options (although after this week we've crossed that option off the list). Thing is, compared to people with kids on the average wage, we're lucky; how they're getting by I have no fucking idea.

 

[DaGaffer]

I dont think so. I am saying i would like to travel and move around the planet without restriction and i believe everyone should be able to. Im not saying that as things stand at the moment we in the west wouldnt get millions of people from india / africa etc coming in and making conditions worse for us with overcrowding etc. I am saying in a perfect world everyones living standards would be the same and we should be free to live in the places we want to rather than where will accept us.

Still wouldn't work. Even if we all had broadly similar living standards, the concept of scarcity still applies; certain parts of the world are simply nicer places to live in than others, from a purely climate and environmental perspective. Completely free movement of labour would effectively destroy the most pleasant environments even faster than they're being destroyed already.

 

[TdC]

I'm fortunate that I earn a decent salary (above the threshold that the begrudgers in Ireland call "rich") and we're not stuck with a massive mortgage or anything, so we're OK, but we've still had to cut back on lots of things, and I've had to put thoughts of new cars and the like on hold for the forseeable future. TBH the missus probably would have gone back to work at the end of her maternity leave (as she did with our first) if she hadn't been made redundant. Problem we have is that family help is a bit of a non-starter; the missus has a severely autistic brother, so her parents have to put him first, and my Mum is back in the UK, so you're stuck with the childcare market, and that's why we ended up with an Au Pair, its actually one of the cheaper options (although after this week we've crossed that option off the list). Thing is, compared to people with kids on the average wage, we're lucky; how they're getting by I have no fucking idea.

yeah, in that respect I fear for another mate of mine: his primary work is actually an awesome but unpaid thing he does in eastern Europe trying to reunite families in formerly war-torn regions, and for his daily bread he has a sales job which is nice enough but not really an earner. I sometimes joke that my monthly taxes are higher than his monthly income, which is pretty harsh, but you get the idea.
Anyway, he's just become a dad with a nice girl from such an eastern European country and the reality of child costs is starting to sink in: in HER country, they're pretty damn well-to-do and everything is different, for example the birth, etc was totally taken care of. She gets a tonnnnnnnnne of maternity leave, etc, whereas in HIS country, she's jobless and doesn't speak the native lingo, and what he earns gets you about three diapers and some apples. Or thereabouts. I wonder what they're going to do tbh. Ok, enough thread hijacking from me

 

[Hawkwind]

There certainly is the destruction of the ethnic makeup of the UK going on.

White British down from 87% to 80% in just ten years.

I think that's an absolutely staggering statistic tbfh.

60,000 US Work VISA's issued to UK Nationals and just under 90% of them are white between the ages of 20-34. My local Canandian HR Director told me that last week. Research data the company is collecting to streamline VISA applications. So I guess the reason is we all f*cking left, fed up with what the UK is becomming! UK Nationals registered with UAE British Embassy was 64,000 last year. Most, like me don't even register with them. Brits like to work abroad these days, better pay and lifestyle.

 

[rynnor]

Brits like to work abroad these days, better pay and lifestyle.

You forgot Weather

 

[old.Tohtori]

Only thing about immigrants i have is that i have to ask "What the f*ck are you doing here?"

As in; "Have you looked outside, why the f*ck would you come here?"

 

[rynnor]

Only thing about immigrants i have is that i have to ask "What the f*ck are you doing here?"

As in; "Have you looked outside, why the f*ck would you come here?"

In your case maybe they want to join the ATF...


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEmFjrlqiNw

 

[old.Tohtori]

Funny how they always have to use a swedish accent because Finnish accent is the hardest in the world to pull of it due to the purity of it

 

[Vae]

Not in Ireland. Missus gets social welfare and various other payments for a year after her statutory maternity pay runs out. They've cut child benefit a bit in the latest budget, but overall, if you factor in the costs of full time childcare (really expensive), the missus would need to make approx. €37K to make going back to work a break even proposition, never mind an actually attractive one. Her social welfare payment is means tested and she doesn't get the full whack, but she still gets a fair amount. The slightly unfair aspect from my POV is that for social welfare purposes we're treated as married (although we're not), but for tax purposes we're treated as single, so I can't use her allowances as I'd be able to in the UK. Which one of the reasons why we're getting married next year (how romantic). Having said all that her social welfare will be cut completely next summer so then we'll be completely single income (hopefully her retraining will score her a decent job by then because she was on a decent whack before she was made redundant and it was the difference between "OK" and "comfortable").

Unfortunately you can't move Personal Allowances (for Income Tax) between people in the UK even if married so there is no real tax benefit from that point of view. I'd love it if we could because it would help homes where only 1 person works and the other is not using their personal allowance. Currently there is a disparity on several things (e.g. child benefit) which favours homes where both parents earn a reasonable amount compared to homes with 1 high and 1 low earner or non-earner). I ran the numbers on Mycenae going back to work. After childcare and travel she would earn about £250 per month for being 50% part-time (2 days p/w). Working full time (4 days p/w) would mean that she would earn £290 per month! Overall the only reason she is going back to work is that she has to for at least 3 months or we have to repay the NHS enhanced maternity we received. Also she has to work a minimum amount per year to retain her registration (and she'd like to work to retain some sanity!). The amount of money is insignificant especially compared to being at home with the child.

Additionally we'll lose child benefit in the new year because I earn too much and if we both use the childcare voucher scheme we'd only save about £130 in tax per month which is 2 days of nursery so not that big a benefit to try and persuade women back into work. Childcare costs are going up way above inflation and her wages aren't keeping up with that. And the government wonder why they are having trouble encouraging women back into work after maternity leave!

 

[DaGaffer]

Unfortunately you can't move Personal Allowances (for Income Tax) between people in the UK even if married

Yeah, I thought that looked odd even as I wrote it (you'd think I'd remember having been married in the UK...). In Ireland you can move allowances, but only if you're married. Which drives a coach and horses through most equality legislation, but there you go...

 

[Jeros]

Don't be so precious Jeros. He was angry about the racial demographics of Norway being changed massively, and quickly.

Which they are.

And then he went a shot a load of children........

 

[Scouse]

And then he went a shot a load of children........

Does that mean that he was wrong about the demographics changing?

No. Of course it doesn't. He was correct in his assessment.

What he did about it is fuck all to do with this discussion - so get the sand out of your mimsy and man the fuck up.

 

[cHodAX]

Welfare state here in Denmark is much more generous than the UK, but there are many fewer layabouts. Probably because the unions still have power so low paid employees don't really exist. SO FUCK OFF PEDALING YOUR TORY BULLSHIT ROUND HERE.

Thanks.

Someone with a clue. Finally.

 

[Moriath]

Still wouldn't work. Even if we all had broadly similar living standards, the concept of scarcity still applies; certain parts of the world are simply nicer places to live in than others, from a purely climate and environmental perspective. Completely free movement of labour would effectively destroy the most pleasant environments even faster than they're being destroyed already.

So keep it as it is for the fortunate or Rich and feck everyone else who has to liive off shit cause they were born in the wrong place.

An equilibrium would happen .. i might mean the ppl in the west dont have as much and the poorest have a bit more .. but no one would let that happen cause the rich have the power and no way they giving anything up

 

[DaGaffer]

So keep it as it is for the fortunate or Rich and feck everyone else who has to liive off shit cause they were born in the wrong place.

An equilibrium would happen .. i might mean the ppl in the west dont have as much and the poorest have a bit more .. but no one would let that happen cause the rich have the power and no way they giving anything up

Way to ignore what I said. Geographic equality is a physical impossibility. You can't put seven billion people in the nice bits of the planet without destroying those nice bits. What do you want to do? Time share California?

 

[Moriath]

everyones idea of nirvana is different i for one am happy here .. i dont want california .. no way .. you are assuming that everyone have the same ideal place to live... if that was true man would never have moved from africa in the first place

 

[DaGaffer]

everyones idea of nirvana is different i for one am happy here .. i dont want california .. no way .. you are assuming that everyone have the same ideal place to live... if that was true man would never have moved from africa in the first place

Really? Really? You're going to be that obtuse? Fuck's sake don't be a fucking moron.

 

[Aoami]

early man hated twerking

 

[Moriath]

Really? Really? You're going to be that obtuse? Fuck's sake don't be a fucking moron.

You make me laugh