Crap Afghanistan

[Scouse]

He could have not done it now, but yes, this is inevitable, and everyone has known it for a very long time.

Apart from anything else, the Americans have some serious future financial problems with their defence budget; at the moment, Afghanistan is about $50bn a year, out of a budget of about $700bn, but, the war itself has burned through the service life of vast amounts of their assets, especially aircraft, but also most of their armour and AFVs, which is leading to a looming capital crisis a few years hence. They would be faced with replacing worn out kit to continue the same Afghanistan insurgency mission, OR, what they actually want and need to do, which is modernise (especially the navy) to counter the growing threat of China. The whole US Navy is potentially fucked by Chinese hypersonic missiles, and they currently have no countermeasures, because stuff like railguns are really fucking expensive. They have a ton of issues like this and are going to have to spend big to even stand still, and Afghanistan can't be sustained. I have no doubt the bean counters have been flagging this for a long time and what's going on now is ripping the plaster off, because five minutes from now we'll all have forgotten about it, because it's brown people far away.

50bn is fuck all. And it's the right thing to do.

If we can't maintain the right thing to do, then we may as well give up and let China do what the fuck they like - because we've failed if we can't do the right thing.

We said "as long as it takes". The bean-counters knew that then, the argument hasn't changed. If "as long as it takes" was never a reality then we shouldn't have gone in in the first place. Or we should have left after 3 years when we realised our claims were pure bullshit.

I don't accept it as inevitable. It isn't. And if we deem it is, on economic grounds alone, then again, our model is a model of failure and needs to be drastically changed.


And if there's one thing I've been accusing the Dem's and Biden on consistently - they're not any sort of party of change or moral superiority. And they're showing it again and again.

 

[DaGaffer]

50bn is fuck all. And it's the right thing to do.

If we can't maintain the right thing to do, then we may as well give up and let China do what the fuck they like - because we've failed if we can't do the right thing.

We said "as long as it takes". The bean-counters knew that then, the argument hasn't changed. If "as long as it takes" was never a reality then we shouldn't have gone in in the first place. Or we should have left after 3 years when we realised our claims were pure bullshit.

I don't accept it as inevitable. It isn't. And if we deem it is, on economic grounds alone, then again, our model is a model of failure and needs to be drastically changed.


And if there's one thing I've been accusing the Dem's and Biden on consistently - they're not any sort of party of change or moral superiority. And they're showing it again and again.

The US shouldn't have been in Afghanistan to create a democratic state in the first place! That shit doesn't work. They should have gone in, got their revenge for 911, and then fucked off home. It is not the job of the US to bring democracy to the world at the end of a bayonet. The Americans have created a moral debt to the people they have now put at risk (and they owe an explanation to all of the poor fuckers killed and maimed over the last 20 years to no purpose), but that's not a debt with an unlimited price tag; that's not how countries ever work.

And anyway, you're being naive. If the Americans couldn't stop the Taliban when they were spending $200bn a year, how were they going to manage it when they're spending 50, or ten or five?

 

[Scouse]

The US shouldn't have been in Afghanistan to create a democratic state in the first place! That shit doesn't work. They should have gone in, got their revenge for 911, and then fucked off home. It is not the job of the US to bring democracy to the world at the end of a bayonet. The Americans have created a moral debt to the people they have now put at risk (and they owe an explanation to all of the poor fuckers killed and maimed over the last 20 years to no purpose), but that's not a debt with an unlimited price tag; that's not how countries ever work.

And anyway, you're being naive. If the Americans couldn't stop the Taliban when they were spending $200bn a year, how were they going to manage it when they're spending 50, or ten or five?

I agree with abput half of this. Especially the first half.

The moral debt is important though. And I've explained the mechanism. Another 40-50 years of keeping the peace because that's what it would take. Generationally attitudes change. Kids don't have the paralysing fears of their parents, or their parents parents. You know this to be true.

Radical islam could be consigned to the past in afghanistan. And yes, we should never have started, but we did. It makes us cunts to not finish the job.

 

[Embattle]

Again I go back to the inevitability and the lack of long term interest in America, Joe is getting this done early in his election cycle and certainly didn't want to be eating this shit sandwich by delaying it for another couple of years where it might make more of an impact.

 

[Embattle]

I agree with abput half of this. Especially the first half.

The moral debt is important though. And I've explained the mechanism. Another 40-50 years of keeping the peace because that's what it would take. Generationally attitudes change. Kids don't have the paralysing fears of their parents, or their parents parents. You know this to be true.

Radical islam could be consigned to the past in afghanistan. And yes, we should never have started, but we did. It makes us cunts to not finish the job.

You keep talking about generationally, it isn't old men who fight for the Taliban they attract a lot of younger men.

 

[DaGaffer]

I agree with abput half of this. Especially the first half.

The moral debt is important though. And I've explained the mechanism. Another 40-50 years of keeping the peace because that's what it would take. Generationally attitudes change. Kids don't have the paralysing fears of their parents, or their parents parents. You know this to be true.

Radical islam could be consigned to the past in afghanistan. And yes, we should never have started, but we did. It makes us cunts to not finish the job.

Pakistan is the problem. And you can't fix it.

 

[SilverHood]

Pakistan is the problem. And you can't fix it.

If it wasn't Pakistan, it would be Iran. And if it wasn't Iran, it would be Qatar or Saudi Arabia. The eyes of the faithful must be kept on the great Satan, lest they turn on their own.

 

[Gwadien]

Pakistan is the problem. And you can't fix it.

A problem we also created

 

[Raven]

They were tribal nutters long before we got there, that's what made it so easy.

 

[Scouse]

Pakistan is the problem. And you can't fix it.

The problem in Afghanistan is the people are too close to Taliban rule and memories are too fresh and attitudes too prevalent.

"The people" are the power in any country. We need to support the new generation who've only known the relative stability and freedom that we've earned for them and keep on earning it for them until the whole population reacts with anger, rather than resignation and terror, at their loss.

We lack the will is all.

 

[DaGaffer]

A problem we also created

Only by omission; the Saudis and multiple Pakistani governments aren't exactly innocent in all this.

If it wasn't Pakistan, it would be Iran. And if it wasn't Iran, it would be Qatar or Saudi Arabia. The eyes of the faithful must be kept on the great Satan, lest they turn on their own.

It is Saudi Arabia. They've been funding the Taliban and their ideology for decades. Iran is not the problem in this case because Pakistan are on the Saudi side in the Sunni/Shia Cold War. If anything Iran will be dealing with the refugee blowback from this more than anyone else (Afghans who were complicit with the Americans won't head for Pakistan for fear of the ISI handing them back to the Taliban, they'll go north or west instead).

 

[Scouse]

UK politicians decry Joe Biden’s defence of Afghanistan pullout

Keir Starmer leads criticism of US president’s approach, calling it a ‘catastrophic error of judgment’

www.theguardian.com

 

[old.Osy]

Armchair political analysts galore.

US _had_ to withdraw. Yes, humanitarian crisis - why the fuck are we suddenly slanted about one that's being publicised. There's been many, many other cases (Uyghurs, Myanmar, list can go on, nobody mention Africa).

Yeah yeah, Vietnam 2, bla bla bla.

Have you noticed the planet is burning?

 

[Scouse]

US _chose_ to withdraw.

FTFY.

The rest of your argument is whataboutery and I'm not sure what global warming has to do with it - it's not as if biden's going to take that cash and do something good with it.

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/JonathanLanday/status/1427746406996008970

 

[Deebs]

They certainly don't want this private aircraft to land at Kabul for some reason



It has already had 2 aborted landing attempts and is just circling and then lining up for the runway before veering away.

 

[Embattle]

3rd times a charm perhaps.

Here he/she goes.

Seems not.

 

[Deebs]

3rd times a charm perhaps.

Here he/she goes.

Seems not.

Nope, looks like they have given up trying to land.

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://twitter.com/JonathanLanday/status/1427746406996008970

Look at em hugging and kissing.

Bunch of gays.

 

[Raven]

What an absolute shambles.

Afghanistan crisis: Chaos at Kabul airport amid scramble to evacuate

Western countries are racing to evacuate their citizens and Afghans following the Taliban takeover.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Wij]

View: https://twitter.com/ayeshaijazkhan/status/1427806476697997320

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://twitter.com/ayeshaijazkhan/status/1427806476697997320

To be fair though, I think having free democratic elections is somewhat of a high bar for the Taliban.

Not shooting school girls on their way to school would be a nice start.

 

[Embattle]

‘A massive policy fail’: CIA warned White House of swift Taliban takeover

Administration’s claim that it was taken by surprise is ‘misleading at best’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Raven]

I don't think ours or the US government have thought about this at all. There will be future conflicts where we need translators, local Intel etc. Anyone would be mad to help.

 

[Gwadien]

Ahmad Massoud - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I think this will be the next guy we'll be supporting for a strong man regime.

 

[Raven]

It's all a complete surprise to those paid for predicting this shit.

Afghanistan: Taliban carrying out door-to-door manhunt, report says

The militants are searching for those who worked with Nato forces, an intelligence report warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Scouse]

It's all a complete surprise to those paid for predicting this shit.

Afghanistan: Taliban carrying out door-to-door manhunt, report says

The militants are searching for those who worked with Nato forces, an intelligence report warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Journalist: "Did you make a mistake?"

Joe Biden: "No".

Cunt. He's standing by that too.

Trump has more humanity than this cunt.

 

[Raven]

Ministers never made key call to help stranded Afghan interpreters

Dominic Raab and fellow ministers did not speak to Afghan counterparts about evacuations, it emerges.

www.bbc.co.uk

No fucks given.

 

[Wij]

Seen people online saying this all the time. Afghanistan doesn't have oil but it has rare earths and lithium. That must be why the US invaded.


View: https://twitter.com/AbuMarikhi/status/1428469184657305602


But it doesn't even make sense. The demand for them was low in 2001. Then they were there for 20 years and did nothing with them. Now they have left.

That's it. They wanted the lithium all along!!!

 

[DaGaffer]

Journalist: "Did you make a mistake?"

Joe Biden: "No".

Cunt. He's standing by that too.

Trump has more humanity than this cunt.

Why? Do you honestly think Trump would ever have said "I made a mistake" if asked by a journalist? Where the fuck have you been?

The withdrawal wasn't a mistake (you may disagree but forever wars are fucking stupid, so you're wrong and shut up). The execution of the withdrawal was a total fuckup, but that's actually a different issue, but given pretty much every single western embassy/foreign office has known this was going to happen since last November, and it was supposed to happen by May, how is it most of them didn't have a plan? How is it most of them haven't always had a plan? Bugging out of Embassies at pace is not exactly unheard of, and in Afghanistan its already happened twice!

The far more concerning thing about Biden's actions, is that Trump talked an isolationist game, but never really followed through, because at bottom he was far too stupid and lazy to do the work; Biden is actually doing it. Unilateral America-first, fuck the rest of you stuff. That's what should be worrying you.