A Discussion

[Gahn]

snip ...

I'm looking at the abuse thrown randomly around - not even at individuals but at entire realms and communities - in the threads here and frankly it concerns me that people can honestly believe this reaction is reasonable.

I won't even discuss your points (cause honestly the hurt is done) and i even acknowledge your good intentions with your thread. But this sentence really sickens me tbh, we preached for years about a way of "good" playing for all ppl and now that we take a stance and move on we got slapped because our "reaction" ain't reasonable? Tbh u should have waked up before.

Thank you for reading.

Thank u for posting, MAYBE a bit late, but thx.

 

[Sharkith]

Requiel,

before being able to debate with you properly I need to know the terms of reference of the debate. The question you asked is "Why do people get so worked up about AC raids?

I tried to point this out in my first rightnow on the topic and the simple fact is that people feel that someone is greifing them. Hibernia arranged several a massive events last year in response to AC'ed relics and the response by a small group of players (Kinetix for example on these forums was one of them) to go the very next morning and AC them back.

I honestly think you are trying to seperate the situation from the question and already in the thread you can see that people cannot do that. The real question you ought to be asking is how can AC-ing relics be defined as grief play. Before answering that we have to ask how can greif play be defined?

I looked up some of the work on MMOPORG's and found the following definition after a paper on the subject:

"Play styles that disrupt another player's gaming experience, usually with specific intention to. When the act is not specifically intended to disrupt and yet the actor is the sole beneficiary, it is greed play, a subtle form of grief play." (Yang-Foo, 2004; p. 11)

This was the first thing I took to you in the conversation. The reason for that was because clearly people feel aggrieved by the whole thing. Someone they feel was and is continuing to aggrieve them. You have to take those feelings as the starting point. If you don't you risk telling people its all not real and their feelings are not legitimate. So for example because you opened up with the question you used we already have people posting here that people need to get a life and stuff like that.

I simply think this is not the case - it is clearly a very emotive issue and you can see that this is all caught up in the history of the server. It is not going to go away either and people need to reach agreement on how to close it once and for all.

Kagato is right. although I am pretty disappointed he felt he had to go and act like he did in order to get his feelings across. He is right the situation with relics has become a tool to hurt and grief other players and AC raids are the way that these players do it. (BTW Kagato its 10% damage which can be significant when someone nukes for 600 every 2.5 seconds).

We can debate the issues but if you seperate them from the facts of the situation you will not actually be able to turn the situation around. So before we get into why people feel the way they do I think you need to clarify if you think ACing relics is connected by the intent of some players to grief others?

I hope you can see that the intention here is to bring the discussion around to the core problem?

Sharkith

 

[Konstantin]

Requiel,

before being able to debate with you properly I need to know the terms of reference of the debate. The question you asked is "Why do people get so worked up about AC raids?

I tried to point this out in my first rightnow on the topic and the simple fact is that people feel that someone is greifing them. Hibernia arranged several a massive events last year in response to AC'ed relics and the response by a small group of players (Kinetix for example on these forums was one of them) to go the very next morning and AC them back.

I honestly think you are trying to seperate the situation from the question and already in the thread you can see that people cannot do that. The real question you ought to be asking is how can AC-ing relics be defined as grief play. Before answering that we have to ask how can greif play be defined?

I looked up some of the work on MMOPORG's and found the following definition after a paper on the subject:



This was the first thing I took to you in the conversation. The reason for that was because clearly people feel aggrieved by the whole thing. Someone they feel was and is continuing to aggrieve them. You have to take those feelings as the starting point. If you don't you risk telling people its all not real and their feelings are not legitimate. So for example because you opened up with the question you used we already have people posting here that people need to get a life and stuff like that.

I simply think this is not the case - it is clearly a very emotive issue and you can see that this is all caught up in the history of the server. It is not going to go away either and people need to reach agreement on how to close it once and for all.

Kagato is right. although I am pretty disappointed he felt he had to go and act like he did in order to get his feelings across. He is right the situation with relics has become a tool to hurt and grief other players and AC raids are the way that these players do it. (BTW Kagato its 10% damage which can be significant when someone nukes for 600 every 2.5 seconds).

We can debate the issues but if you seperate them from the facts of the situation you will not actually be able to turn the situation around. So before we get into why people feel the way they do I think you need to clarify if you think ACing relics is connected by the intent of some players to grief others?

I hope you can see that the intention here is to bring the discussion around to the core problem?

Sharkith

well said.

 

[charmangle]

This is going to be a long post, I'm sorry about that but I wanted to get a few things down and start a civilised discussion about the current hatestorm rolling around the server.

A really nice post Req, I read through it, and stopped there. I havent read the current replies yet, because I want to give my gut feeling response.

Why do people get so worked up about AC raids?

It denies choice.
This is a common objection I've seen to AC raids. People are denied the opportunity to take part in the siege by virtue of being in bed.

I can agree with you here. But thats abit beside the point as I see it. You are not denied the opportunity to siege, you are denied the opportunity to EVER defend. It is not the AC raids per say that are the problem, its the amount and frequency that make them so hard to live with. Also you cant disregard population.

Now then let's look at the impact that has on different styles of play:
For roaming groups or solo play it may mean that a port isn't open however I don't see much more of an impact than that.

For fg I agree. But for solo action, this is a huge hinderance. Especially since your opponents now can get back into the action within seconds while you have to travel for 5-10 minutes then insta die to 20 enemies. Rebuff for 2-3 minutes then travel for 5-10 mintues again. You see where Im going with this? (And you have probably seen alot of solo posts describing how they have been spending 80% of their evening travelling)

For keep take action and large scale RvR it encourages more keep takes and retakes which to me sounds like a good thing. Keeps and Relics changing hands regularly is vital to prevent the RvR situation from growing stale. The more that the active hotspots move around the frontiers, the better.

You are correct here, but only on a fully populated server. And thats the problem we are experiencing.

What you are missing in your arguments is the fact that siege isnt supposed to be only attacking other sieges with a huge defending force inside them. That is the hard and not so fun part of siege, but still necessary ofc. Its also supposed to be some FUN defending of siege vs attackers. And that is something that is removed from the other realms when AC rading reaches the frequency that Albs have taken it to.

Having/not having a Relic imbalances RvR.
Obviously a realm with captured Relics has an advantage however how many fights are won or lost based on the 5% bonus from a Relic woud you say?

In fg vs fg I agree with you. But in siege warfare it makes a huge differance. Thats why people go through such a hassle to get the best template with 8% damage etc in it.

The problem is that it makes casters/stealthers hit their high cap off damage, making them 2 shot others instead of 3 shot them. Ofc you have the odd high rr caster that does that to start with but when a realm has an extra power relic they bring out all their low-mid RR bolters/high damage casters, which will also 2 shot the other side.

Ofc this could be solved by lowering the high range of damage all over the spectrum. (Casters/tanks/stealthers hitting for 850+ damage per shot is just to much damage. It shouldnt be possible to 2 shot anything at any time Imo, but thats a whole other discussion.

It demoralises the other realms and discourages people from doing it the hard way.
This one I have some sympathy with. I can see the point that if someone's worked hard and had a hard fight to take a keep, it doesn't seem fair that the work can be undone by an easy off-peak retake. To counter that I'd point out that the hard way is the fun way.

Again, here is the point not that siege is siege. Siege is devided into 2 cathegories, defending and attacking. The defenders gets to farm and have fun. The attackers gets to get farmed, get almost no rps, but do it for the realm or for better rvr in the future. (Irvr, Relics etc)

I'm concerned that this issue has become much like the old arguments about 'adding' or 'zerging'.

I agree the discussion has become infected, but that is due to the fact that it is only one side that has the power to do anything about it and that is the AC raiders. The other side (a vast majority I would venture to claim), really cant do anything about it, since you effectivly put a stop to that with the TT insident. And the other side, the minority, keeps ignoring the voice of the majority.

I am aware that some people have cited AC raids as a reason to move to other servers. I'd like to ask those people if they can explain what exactly it was about this issue that made them take that choice? I'd also be interested in hearing other reasons people may have for holding extreme negative views on the topic.

The whole point here is that the AC raiding is so one sided. And that is, in my opinion due to the low population. (and that perspective only enhances when comparing to avalon/lyoness cluster)

It is today a rediculous vaste of time, and basically RPlvling Albs to take a relic from them. They get to stand in their keep with an equal amount of defenders as the attackers can hope to bring about, and farm the poor sods outside. And they never let anyone else have the fun of defending anything, because they simply wount try to retake anything until all the defenders have gone to bed.

It wouldnt be to bad if it happened once in a while. But the big problem is that its 100% of the times from the Alb side. And its always the night after it has been taken. So any effort in bringing the realm together as a whole and raiding them to highten the spirits, is getting a doubled negative effect on the realm the night after, when they see how easily 1 fg of Albs negate their work.

And as you say: If you dont like that kind of rvr you shouldnt be out there at all. They take to heart, and either switch server or go to PvE.

In the end, I really doubt the spirit of the game was to have 8-10 people, beeing able to redo the work of hundreds, in 1/10 of the time. Forcing the other realms to only attack and never get to defend.

Its not a point of missing the action while sleeping, its missing out on ever getting to have the fun action and only getting to do the dirty work every day when you wake up.

Im one of those that moved and switch 90% of my playtime to avalon, even though I really disped it. I hated the german, I tested it out several times when the situation was bad, but figured it was as bad as having to play in german. But the last months just went over the top. The AC raiding got rediculous, with Albs taking anything back every night that we had worked hard to establish the evening before.

And I am one of those who actually enjoy siege/irvr/zerg alot. Just not getting farmed gzillion times every evening only to see any fruits of it, taken back in an hour at 06.00.

Id rather play with the germans. But I have to agree that the language is lessning the play experiance more and more. But I wount be back on the english cluster until something drastically changes. Id rather reroll US if it gets to that.

Hope I atleast gave you some arguments to think about Req.

/Charmangle

 

[Kinetix]

....

Yes your correct kagato. If its a repercursion of TT´s action for some, or the relic taken for others or even more cause mids didnt just took relics they had to try and take all keeps making organized rvr being honest a complete shit.
Due to those kind of actions, some ppl go pve, craft etc and some ppl (afaik) will do anything just to piss mids off.

We know how anger works, goes from one side to the other and then back again and it will never stop because.....well because its the human way.

 

[charmangle]

Having played midgard for the largest part of the last 6 months I have to agree with Requil that everytime there was an AC raid (by 1 fg) there were more then enough players online in Midgard to stop it. But on doing /who all it seemed to me that hardly anyone could be bothered even trying to stop it.

This is simply not true. Ive been up and defended vs CM on most AC raids during the atumn, and there has basically never been more than 10-15 people online, off whom 3-5 where in rvr = 3-5 buffbots without DI. So 10 out of 10-15 is occupied in rvr, and the last 2-3 people are most probably half a sleep and just watching a movie while pressing buttons.

When mid/hib hit albs at 1pm, im pretty sure there are more than 10 people online with /who. And that makes all the difference. IF someone goes for relic, then there can be 30 albs out to defend if needed. Thats not the case during late night vs mids.

People who claim they are leaving over AC raids are either lying, clueless or at least very out of touch with their feelings. They were going to leave anyway and citing some reason they saw a lot of others mention adds a little spice to it.

Eh, I recent that. I am very intouch with my feelings. I do know what is important to me and what is less important. But I also make a choice on what is fun for me. And what IS NOT fun for me is to be farmed by gimp Albs standing in their rediculous sieges every day because they have the servers only insomniacs.

Then Id rather leave them to an empty server and play with NPCs and go for the servers where the game works as intended. Which in my opinion is smart!

And No I had no plans what so ever on leaving, and the game was just getting started for me, not the other way around.

So I guess the clueless bit can be attributed to yourself mate?

/Charmangle

ps. I know latly that Lect, Arepa, White and the crew have tried to counter CM late night sessions, but I fear they just cant keep up with CM time table in the long run. ds.

 

[Soulja_IA_]

A Prime example of all this was yesterday 09/01 when Mids opened up the relic gates of Alb it seemed no defenders stopped them from taking the Relics but yet Renaris where we Hibs been trebbing wall until we breached it end curtosey of Flui and horeley running trebs for most afternoon and only around 18 in bg.

Albs were more comcerned about saving a relic that was AC 'd than they were in defending they own relics safe in the assumption that the Alb AC would get them back for them.

I did a /who 50 at around 4pm and there were 41 lvl 50's in Hib counting BB that were non anon also I did same at 9pm to find we had 67 lvl 50's non anon and including BB.Hib is at a low time atm and all because this action of AC has forced most to leave it is not encouraging to go do mass rvr events when the few decide to take relics/keeps in early hours of morning hard work done in evening when all 3 realms are active to find that a few in early morning destroy all that.

On basis of yesterday yes it seems more fun to defend than it is to get a prize in attacking for it and for Albs this been going on for a long time no attacking just defending a prize asset that was got for them in early hours by the few.

To stop this Relics should be locked down when say a realms population goes under e.g 30 or make Relic guards that uber that these few AC can not Pve these relics away just like Relic guards used to be.

Population has dropped due to these actions as People are logging in seeing same thing day after day that the Fun on this server seem to be Albs camp a keep with Relic in rather than open up action anywhere else in NF.We all want RvR but when the RvR is being dictated by the few then it becomes monotinous and extremely boring hence peoples decisions have been not to /Quit the game but to move servers be it on Avalon as most have gone or to US as they see current state of this server being dictated by the small % of Albs no variety = Stale game play.

Big Gratz to Hibs who have stayed I know we are few in numbers but never give up die attitude even tho we were outnumbered constantly.When Albs can bring 41 of they numbers to retake a twr that was near Ren that outnumbered amount of 50's that were online at time shows Hib is being underpopulated.

Long Post Sorry.

Soulja

 

[psyco]

Having/not having a Relic imbalances RvR.

imo, bad choice of words

you could equally argue that specialist items and templates and buffbots imbalances RvR, if not more so

though a well composed post, i fail to see what were meant to discuss

the current hatestorm rolling around the server.

this it? if so, it would be nieve to think servers would ever be at peace, this game is a real time war game...
it is also a MMO(Mass Multiplayer Online) game, it is also nieve to think that everyone is going to get on all the time...

so i illiterate, what are we discussing? seems to be more of a statement/your view of the servers

 

[Ati]

Tell the people in the office, that the alarm clock situation is very similar to a school bully scenario, the victim needs some sympathy and some help.

Solutions:

More keep guards for underpopulated realms
Higher population (cluster)
Remove Relics

I think you'll find the first to be the best solution.


Oh also, you telling is not to talk about TT's decision is unjust. It is a VERY important point in this debate. If the players cannot take pitty on an underpopulated realm, them GoA should!!!

Ati


*subliminal message* Cluster with avalon and give char copy kthx *subliminal message*

 

[Karmatika]

i dont care bout AC raids. Ppl need to play the game how they like it and when ever they want. Relics are not as powerfull as ppl think anyway. Just an extra goal in game: to attack / defend / retake.

Joined in for 1-2 hrs yesterday afternoon. It was amusing but rly nothing special. Not many defenders came to Alb aid. Even felt like doing PvE at some point. Was well organised tho.

to each their own.

 

[Ati]

to each their own.

Dosn't work when your playing in a multiplayer game where one persons actions can effect hundreds of people.

 

[charmangle]

The problem we have now, and im as much guilty for this as anyone else, is that AC raids are no longer simply about the relics. They have become weapons of anger. Its not just about getting the relic, they are being done precisely to demoralise the enemy or simply for the garunteed back lash on these very forums.

So basically what you are saying is that you and the rest of the AC crew have made a game of trying to drive players away from the server? That you are to blame for ALOT of lost account incomes for GoA? Now how is that NOT "greif play"? Or at the very least one might think that GoA wanted to protect their investment from that kind of sabotaging of their product.

/Charmangle

 

[Sharkith]

Charmangle,

tbh we need Requiel to respond on wether or not he feels it is possible that this is grief play. Kagato has clearly and openly stated here that he intended to piss people off with his antics this week. Now given the definition of grief play we have here he has clearly went out of his way to grief others.

I am very curious to know what if anything Requiel thinks about this.

It points to bad game design and certainly at the very least Mythic should be directed to the issue. I did contact them but did not get a direct response. I did not really expect them to reply to be frank but if more people did write it might work.

I personally will wait to see what Requiel thinks about this before jumping to any conclusions.

Sharkith

 

[pip]

Well what can i say that hasn't been said.Well first of would like to thank you Requiel for making this thread, to me now i think we got your attention

Prob with being Ac'ed

It is the constant grind now of the few Albs that want to grieve Mid/Hibs
my morning starts of with a cup of tea and read on fh and all the time we are seeing threads about being Ac'ed, imo it is very lame even the folk that do it no it is lame? was funny what some guy said, is like making a fry up go upstairs come down to find your dog as eaten it that is how most of us feel cheated.It's funny how you said Mids are outnumbering Albs now that is due to the fact alot of Albs have logged into there Mid toons to help destroy there own realm that in it's self must say something, hell even no few Albs that have /delete there toons cause they are to ashamed to be part of Alb as for you saying it as brought more fun to the game, well is kind of true at the start but after a while the fun as gone it's just boring now doing the same thing over and over again imo this needs to come to a end asap anyway hope this help, oh ye and i put a full stop at the end.

 

[charmangle]

tbh we need Requiel to respond on wether or not he feels it is possible that his is grief play.

Yep, I wrote the response before reading through the thread (hence reading your post to req!

Will be very interresting to hear Reqs comments about it...
I just find it abit odd that they can choose to interfere with the game mechanics in some instances (TT action) and apparently reluctant to do so in other situations. (which to me are obvious grief play situations)

But maybe grief play only is applied within each realm...?

/Charmangle

 

[Cromcruaich]

For me the prime reason I strongly dislike AC raids has already been mentioned. Its that a lot of effort and organisation (and hours of game play) has gone into taking it and taking it back, only for 16 people to wander along 6 hours later undo all that work, thats coupled with Maelochs point about people making a career out of it. Now and again you can shrug your shoulders and just get on with it, but not when it happens persitantly. It was a rare thing that hib could get together a prime time raid with sufficient numbers, success was even rarer, the when raided relics were lost, or our own relic was lost we were completely unable to take it back, leaving alb with an almost permanent advantage which we had no hope of altering, and even if we did, it would last 6 or so hours.

It doesnt need this to happen very often before the majority of the people who would of wanted to go on a relic raid suddenly stop turning up.

Your points that in a nutshell summarise to relic raids are fun in themselves so it doesnt matter that the relics change hands in the morning are off the mark (you were playing devils advocate i know) - a relic raid is specifically thrown together with a very specific goal - its the goal that the majority of people pursue pure and simple - many people there (without the promise of the relic) would rather be doing fg rvr, or soloing or even sorting something out in pve - they dont come for the action that the raid will generate, but to take the relic, and for the personal satisfaction and the adulation of the realm that ensues.



How about this Req, ring 60 of your mates tonight, tell em you're gonna get some beers in and go down to the beach and make a huge sandcastle. All of em come, you have a laugh and a good time, but in the morning the sandcastle is gone. Ring em up the following night, see how many come. Now ring them all up after 10 nights of that, you'll probably find yourself on your own.

In anycase, personally i wouldnt come back proper to cluster. The way you handled TT was totally inappropriate. Someone put it very well prior to me. You got involved in the life of the server not the running of the server.

 

[Kinetix]

i dont care bout AC raids. Ppl need to play the game how they like it and when ever they want. Relics are not as powerfull as ppl think anyway. Just an extra goal in game: to attack / defend / retake.

Joined in for 1-2 hrs yesterday afternoon. It was amusing but rly nothing special. Not many defenders came to Alb aid. Even felt like doing PvE at some point. Was well organised tho.

to each their own.

Completly agree with you, ppl should play the game how they like.
And yes not many alb defenders because albs stoped caring. Why should they? i mean they come home from work and find 4 keeps blue on theyr realm when they didnt even got a chance to defend them?

Isnt this the same type of AC raid? Isnt the defenition of a AC raid a scheduled raid planed to benefit the fact that in a certain time a realm has a considerable bigger number of ppl then another independent of the time it is?

 

[Darzil]

I think the population issue is the root of AC being a problem, as people have said here. It's a shame that though NF was designed to be self correcting (fewer people -> fewer rps -> keeps can't be kept so high -> taking them is easier -> fewer people needed to still have fun) it doesn't work, as some guilds seem to have bounty points to keep keeps at 10 for the next year or more. It simply cannot keep pace with this drop in population.

It reminds me of a post from Glastonbury, a few months back, where someone posted that it was great fun in NF, despite only having low population. It struck me that maybe having most of the keeps at very low level helped them a lot, as a keep fights can drag, and having a keep at low level makes the fights take a more reasonable time.

Another thing that struck me is that the most fun I've had recently has been taking a tower back and then defending it til it's about level 4. It means the enemies that come back to get it get a fight, too. Too many recent actions have been two forces running around pve'ing towers, rather than contested siege. It works best around towers at the moment, because keep sieges just take too long. At the moment in Alb, anyway, people take a tower then move off straight away and lose it.

At the moment, the best way I think of looking at things is just to log in and see what is happening at the time and deal with that. I spoke to someone last night that wasn't going to rvr against the blue alb that confronted him at the start of primetime (having spent about 14 hours clearing the blue the day before). I then pointed out the fact that it meant there was little travelling and he'd have more action as a result, and that with nothing to defend we'd not be sitting at Beno / Relic Shrine waiting for enemies, but moving and doing stuff and suddenly it didn't seem quite so negative. (No idea what happened, I was doing RL)

Darzil

 

[Tip]

Requiel I can see what you hoping to achieve, looking for answers to rectify or hope to rectify the situation on pryd/excal but in my opinion your looking for answers in the wrong places, there are so many conflicting factions within with player database, each with there own idea's on how this game should be played fg/fg, solo/solo, zerg/zerg, with each faction hoping to manipulate or dominate the server to there playstye, which sometimes involves getting the likes of yourself on there side, all this bad blood is a by-product of Low Server Poplulation.
Low Server Population - how about taking these points on board :-

1/Bad Marketing Strategy's ?
2/In Game Support ?
3/5 year old game ?
4/Many new online games ?


Point number 1/ seems to have been taken care of with upcoming release of Warhammer Online which I get the impression has been designed to get-a-cut of the 7 million players playing WOW, as the gameplay looks like a cross between Lord of the Rings and World of Warcraft, quite frankly World of Warcraft end game was crap, but there marketing strategy was spot on.

Been playing this game since the beginning, I have played many other games and come back to DOAC, why? because the end game RvR I think is great, but its the community that makes or breaks a game, lose that community and the game will die, its a fact.

Doac needs some young blood, hell throw a couple of quid at it, advertise, get a few copies back on the shelfs, maybe even bundle the game with warhammer on release.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Completly agree with you, ppl should play the game how they like.
And yes not many alb defenders because albs stoped caring. Why should they? i mean they come home from work and find 4 keeps blue on theyr realm when they didnt even got a chance to defend them?

Isnt this the same type of AC raid? Isnt the defenition of a AC raid a scheduled raid planed to benefit the fact that in a certain time a realm has a considerable bigger number of ppl then another independent of the time it is?

<sigh> cliches ive used before, cause and effect, taking some of your own medicine, live by the sword die by the sword,reap what you sow, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, eye for an eye etc etc.

 

[Tuthmes]

I am aware that some people have cited AC raids as a reason to move to other servers. I'd like to ask those people if they can explain what exactly it was about this issue that made them take that choice? I'd also be interested in hearing other reasons people may have for holding extreme negative views on the topic. Like I said at the top though, keep it civil please.

Gameplay of some opponents in general tbh. 3 years ago it would be commen sense to stop roaming as a fg when there where only solo'rs "small groups" around. You ARE killing the fun for the people that play then by continue'ing your fg and zergin everything to bits and pieces.
As to why certain people are unable to understand this (it seems so selvish) and to take this even a step further by taking keeps/relics at 5am, is behond my scope of thoughts (yes i know, a lot of things are :|).

Like Grawen put it, i thought it whas 10% per relic? Anyways, some things (especially in 1vs1's) go down to the whire and then it does make a (small) differance.
All in all I don't mind if some realm has all 6 relics, it would/does bother me though if it whas aquired by ac'ing.

All these albs saying: "why get so upset over a relic? It's not that important anyway." Yet when it comes to it, they rather defend the hib relic and loose their own (cause they will pve it back anyway), then go out and try to give a fight (put up a defence) and have some fun. They are not even trying it! This Requiel, is what blows my mind aswell. For them it has gone behond the scope of fun and has gotten personal in a realm kind of way.

 

[Kinetix]

<sigh> cliches ive used before, cause and effect, taking some of your own medicine, live by the sword die by the sword,reap what you sow, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, eye for an eye etc etc.

Yeah np with that Crom, but keep in mind this is a vicious cycle and will go on and on and on. Yeah Mids are on top now but last year the same thing happened to mids, all of mid was red.
Is this what you want? Dont get me wrong fights for relics are nice, but taking all of keeps/towers of another realm after taking relics just to piss off others is defenatly a "asking to get payback soon" due to all the anger created by it.

 

[elbeek]

The recent keep sieges in Albion have been great fun and this is the whole point. Large scale siege type warfare is what the game is all about. No doubt I will get flamed from the 8 v 8 guys but there is also space for them too.

I think Albs have totally lost the plot over recent weeks. The likes of Kagato and co had a giant twig up their arses over the TT keep lowering and took it upon themselves to make a totally invalid point. The subsequent population loss just shows how wrong they were in taking this sort of action but you may as well try and push water uphill as they are too fucking thick to realise what they have done.

I stand by what I have said in other posts. Surely it is well within the game mechanics to alter keep levels dependant on online populous. The more online should be reflected by either NPC numbers/levels and vice versa. This would prevent the minority of twats from spoiling the fun for the majority and Kagato and co would slip back into ambiguity where, tbtfh, they belong.

 

[Kinetix]

Gameplay of some opponents in general tbh. 3 years ago it would be commen sense to stop roaming as a fg when there where only solo'rs "small groups" around. You ARE killing the fun for the people that play then by continue'ing your fg and zergin everything to bits and pieces.
As to why certain people are unable to understand this (it seems so selvish) and to take this even a step further by taking keeps/relics at 5am, is behond my scope of thoughts (yes i know, a lot of things are :|).

Like Grawen put it, i thought it whas 10% per relic? Anyways, some things (especially in 1vs1's) go down to the whire and then it does make a (small) differance.
All in all I don't mind if some realm has all 6 relics, it would/does bother me though if it whas aquired by ac'ing.

All these albs saying: "why get so upset over a relic? It's not that important anyway." Yet when it comes to it, they rather defend the hib relic and loose their own (cause they will pve it back anyway), then go out and try to give a fight (put up a defence) and have some fun. They are not even trying it! This Requiel, is what blows my mind aswell. For them it has gone behond the scope of fun and has gotten personal in a realm kind of way.

Thutmes you are getting it wrong, the reason ren was more defended was not because alb relics could be pve´d more easely, it was because loosing our relics wouldnt give us -10%dam on spells but loosing hib relic would.

 

[joap]

Completly agree with you, ppl should play the game how they like.
And yes not many alb defenders because albs stoped caring. Why should they? i mean they come home from work and find 4 keeps blue on theyr realm when they didnt even got a chance to defend them?

No, wrong reason. Albs don't care because they know the night crew will clean up whatever mess is left there to clean, bring back any relics mids/hibs take from them.

If Albion didnt have the night crew then people would care and would try to take defence of the realm serious.

 

[Kinetix]

No, wrong reason. Albs don't care because they know the night crew will clean up whatever mess is left there to clean, bring back any relics mids/hibs take from them.

If Albion didnt have the night crew then people would care and would try to take defence of the realm serious.

And you are and alb? or are you mid/hib and expressing your opinion?

 

[charmangle]

Isnt this the same type of AC raid? Isnt the defenition of a AC raid a scheduled raid planed to benefit the fact that in a certain time a realm has a considerable bigger number of ppl then another independent of the time it is?

Did you read the rest of the thread?
It has been answered already...

No it isnt, because Albs arent lower in logged on numbers than any other realm during the daytime (or atleast they have enough to stage a defence). That is not the case when it comes to AC raids towards Mids/Hibs. Most of the AC raids towards mids the last 6-10 months have been when Mids have a total of about 10 people online including bots. And thats not enough to stage any defence what so ever.

/Charmangle

 

[Tuthmes]

Thutmes you are getting it wrong, the reason ren was more defended was not because alb relics could be pve´d more easely, it was because loosing our relics wouldnt give us -10%dam on spells but loosing hib relic would.

Well like i stated the relics are that important to you. All you did is prove my point :|
Anyways i'm not even sure if you loose your own power relic, that you'd still get the 10% bonus. I don't think so.

 

[Kinetix]

Did you read the rest of the thread?
It has been answered already...

No it isnt, because Albs arent lower in logged on numbers than any other realm during the daytime (or atleast they have enough to stage a defence). That is not the case when it comes to AC raids towards Mids/Hibs. Most of the AC raids towards mids the last 6-10 months have been when Mids have a total of about 10 people online including bots. And thats not enough to stage any defence what so ever.

/Charmangle

Well Charm, thats exactly what has been discussed here. Obviously you have a different pov on this, at least from mine. At the same time ppl have differnt pov on this from me and you, you just have to read this thread to find at least 5 or 6 differnt.
The fact is everybody pulls the strings to theyr side and it seems we arnt going nowere because no1 wants to give in or be flexible not to mention the fact that this forum dosent represent even 40% of english cluster population.

 

[Tuthmes]

Well Charm, thats exactly what has been discussed here. Obviously you have a different pov on this, at least from mine. At the same time ppl have differnt pov on this from me and you, you just have to read this thread to find at least 5 or 6 differnt.
The fact is everybody pulls the strings to theyr side and it seems we arnt going nowere because no1 wants to give in or be flexible not to mention the fact that this forum dosent represent even 40% of english cluster population.

All people are asking is to stop beeing so bitter and have some fun? It never has bin about givin in, it's about trying to have some fun together (as a whole, ie. the people that play on the same cluster, not just your realm) and enjoy the game?
If you are destroying someone else's fun in the game (even if legit) there's something wrong with it? Then again you could be like Kagato and give a rat's arse about other people.