A Discussion

[swords]

Imagine you are playing in a different time zone to people who decide to take your relics with alarming (subtlety) regularity. You can spend time taking them back (though with the pop as it was, this was very difficult) but there is nothing to stop this happening again if you succede(which it did, concurrently).
If it were me in Hibernia, I would feel particularly helpless and unable to do anything simply due to facing superior numbers at 'prime time' anyway, and having all your hard work done should you manage a prime time relic raid taken back by a small group when you've gone to bed.

Lowering the relic keep to level 1 was an act which we did because there was nothing (heh) within the game which could prevent us from doing so, if the keep was ours it was ours to do as we wished.
It would be easier to retake so in effect, making it easy for all that hard work getting the relic to just vanish *poof*. I would imagine this would cause similar feelings of helplessness (we cant force them to raise the keep in-game, nor did a GM intervene and increase the level take note). The Albs had to defend the relic in an ever decreasing keep (which they did and lowering the level actually got alot of Hibs out in RvR...) so it wasn't exactly a 1:1 thing, but it was the best we could do at the time (it was a spontaneous thing when we heard about it, took 5 mins to do including port times).
In the end there realy wasn't anything we could do aside protest (in a way which had been done at least twice before to my knowledge) but as events went, proved quite futile.
Couldn't carry on in Albion after that, even though it's where i've played this game for the past 4 years or so, nothing we do works, can't tell people what to do or how to play. If they realy want to do something for themselves then they are free to do that, it is a shame people do not consider others who play the game, those who make the game what it is. We are not enemies, we are people.

 

[Tuthmes]

imagine that you are playing in a different time zone everyone in your group/guild is in a different time zone. You decide to take the relicsat silly oclock in the morning (our time) however for you its prime time. (what ever that is) now you spend all your gaming time getting the relic and returning it to a guild keep that you think will be strong enough to hold it.

This is the part where you've bin away to long.

Imagine that you are playing a different time zone and everyone in your group/guild is in a different time zone. You decide to PvE relics just for fun, cause at the silly o'clock nobody from the other realm is defending anyway. If you come across stuborn defence and you loose fg vs 5, log off and retry 2 hours l8r. When people start to moan about it, you says that bainshee's caused you to get aggrovated and that this is the root to your anger. The only way to cure you phsycological problem is to AC more relics from the realm in which the bainshee's are made.
Now Hibernia spend all their time getting the relics back at primetime, which is shite enough todo, because defending is always twice as easy as taking a keep. Add to that, that the moment you even kill a guard of the relic keep, the whole of rvr'ing and pve'ing albion storms into this keep and stays there for atleast 24 hours.
The moment Hibernia does get the relic, this/these guild/albs decide's to PvE it back the same night, without any effort at all.

Only to find that the guild holding it didnt apretiate your guild spending time getting the relic so reset the keep to lvl 1.

Is it fair that your realm mates have basically given the relic to the other realms and no matter how much you ask you cant say "hey release the keep" and we wil take over.

If you read the above, the lowering whas done, because of the disagreement of the whole ac'ing (yes this whas the same relic that whas taking back with much effort by the hibs). It's not about givin the relic away for free anyways, cause the albs log in there 24/7 when it whas at lvl1. Infact the relic whas takin back when it whas a higher lvl again.

I wasnt around for the whole TT fiasco but what i dont understand is that the majority of people who claim they didnt agree with TT went over to avalon they didnt quit.

Not exactly. This whas the final straw for a lot of hibs out there. Nearly all Hib guilds released their keep after the ban of the TT members, this didnt stop albs from taking every keep/tower in Hibernia ofc. This whas the point for a lot of Hib guilds to move on. If there's nothing you can do about it and if there's nothing Goa can do about it, leave it. A lot went to the US servers, a lot decided to move to Avalon.

In the end GOA may have been heavy handed but what was stopping TT from going ok we lowered our keep down to lvl 1 we can now log on to whatever realm and go raid that keep take the relic for realm xx. That is what i beleive goa wanted to stop.

Lowering a keep for IRVR is different than lowering a relic keep for your realm to raid OR even return. if they really felt bad for it they should have just released the keep and let anotehr guild take over they arnt forced to defend that keep. Hell they could have logged onto the other realm and organised a retake while it was still increasing in rank. Either way they did it badly.

True maybe, then again it doesnt say anywhere you cant lower a keep, infact you have the oppertunity (made by Mythic/Goa) to do so if you please. If you wanne look at it from a roleplay/realm perspective even this action can be defended. for example; in a normal situation/population, your realm could feel the wrath of the to other realms and you would end up without your own relics aswell.
How is lowering a keep for IRVR different from lowering a relic keep anyway? You are putting your realm at risk by giving the enemy a port into your realm and as we have seen many times (by albs) you will loose atleast 1 of your relics eventually if it takes to long.

 

[charmangle]

Of cause they had warning, what they did was nothing less then cross realming, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know doing so, so blatently will get you banned.

To be honest they were lucky to get away with 5 days, i'd of given it two weeks at least and if possible resets all guild bp's down to 0 to prevent further claiming.
Thankfully though that wouldn't be needed now they have left, and Albion is better of without them.

Hmm...how the heck did you get it to be crossrealming?
Crossrealming is defined as passing on information as a member of one realm to the member of another realm, that he would not otherwise know about.

They were not banned on account of crossrealming, they were banned for breaking "the spirit of the game".

First you compare it to speed hacking now you call it cross realming, you need to get the facts straight, and not try and bend the situation to fit into different defined rules. Fact is they didnt do anything that broke any rule that anyone than Requiel could in anyway know about. Since he was the one that after a meeting and discussion with his team decided that it was against a general rule...and no specific rule were broken...

/Charmangle

ps. And frankly you are lucky to even be able to play the game any more. If it had been up to me Id had decided that your way of publicly admit that you were taking actions ingame to "grief" others, would be deemed against the "spirit of the game" and banned you for life, since that screws with the money Im making of the game.

But the sad part here, is that you really dont seem to understand that you are yourself arguing that it is okay for GoA to do this to you as a customer without having to care about any kind of ruleset. ds

 

[Asha]

Of cause they had warning, what they did was nothing less then cross realming, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know doing so, so blatently will get you banned.

To be honest they were lucky to get away with 5 days, i'd of given it two weeks at least and if possible resets all guild bp's down to 0 to prevent further claiming.
Thankfully though that wouldn't be needed now they have left, and Albion is better of without them.

yes cagato set one of the oldest guilds on the server's bp to zero because of something that isn't MENTIONED anywhere in any coc - no the fucking sotg is not fucking mentioned anywhere. Yes, fuck up two guilds because they dared to stand up for something honorable in the fucking realm of honor.

and it's not cross realming. Or they would have said it was. It's not. It's "against the sotg" according to GOA's fucked up logic. If it was cross-realming they wouldn't have had to pull that out of no where.

Get a new drum, the one you're beating is so fucking worn out. Albion is better off? This is hilarious. Really. Yes, Albion is better off with no players at all. Much less a great group of friends who often ran pugs and who were always a laugh to play with. Oh you mean better for people who solo?

 

[Gahn]

Of cause they had warning, what they did was nothing less then cross realming, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know doing so, so blatently will get you banned.

To be honest they were lucky to get away with 5 days, i'd of given it two weeks at least and if possible resets all guild bp's down to 0 to prevent further claiming.
Thankfully though that wouldn't be needed now they have left, and Albion is better of without them.

Fuck off tbh Kagato, spouting around bullshit won't win u paradise.

 

[Flimgoblin]

, can't tell people what to do or how to play.

Glad you've finally realised that

 

[Cromcruaich]

...

Youve a right to your view, but as you obviously have no empathy at all with any players except yourself, then it is pointless having a discussion with you. Only advice I can give you is you go away and perhaps reconsider your attitude to other players. Additionally I can't really believe you are happy with the current state of the server, but i'm sure you'll continue to bloody mindedly say you are, while maintaining you are glad those who left have left.

Sad states of affairs, and syptomatic of the attitude that got us here.

Oh, some of those question you posed in your response to me - engage brain and try and answer them for yourself, it's the only way you'll learn.

 

[Appollo]

BURN HIM ALIVE! muahahahaha.........

 

[Cromcruaich]

Of cause they had warning, what they did was nothing less then cross realming, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know doing so, so blatently will get you banned.

To be honest they were lucky to get away with 5 days, i'd of given it two weeks at least and if possible resets all guild bp's down to 0 to prevent further claiming.
Thankfully though that wouldn't be needed now they have left, and Albion is better of without them.

Jesus christ, for the love of god, think about what your posting - its impossible to have a discussion with you - all that happens is people get worked up from your responses and the lots of argued points just get drowned out by your complete bullshit. I'm guilty of doing that right now. You just post lies, why?

 

[Shike]

Youve a right to your view, but as you obviously have no empathy at all with any players except yourself, then it is pointless having a discussion with you. Only advice I can give you is you go away and perhaps reconsider your attitude to other players. Additionally I can't really believe you are happy with the current state of the server, but i'm sure you'll continue to bloody mindedly say you are, while maintaining you are glad those who left have left.

Sad states of affairs, and syptomatic of the attitude that got us here.

Oh, some of those question you posed in your response to me - engage brain and try and answer them for yourself, it's the only way you'll learn.

If you read through alot of Kagato's posts you can clearly see that he is quite happy with the situation RVRwise. So.. cant see why he would lie about that tbh.

On the rest, yea, sad innit :/

 

[Cromcruaich]

What could GOA do ? Well tbh I am not sure, but some acknowledgement that there was an issue would have been a start.

They could of scripted something to spawn additional guards for the wee hours - i'm certain that would be within their ability.

 

[Flimgoblin]

on the empathy for the other realms thing:

Personally, I don't like what AC raids do to my realms morale or that of the other realms, so I won't lead or join in on them.

If I had the time I'd probably level my hibs to help out the other side when they are low - that's the _right_ way to help out. If you think your realm as a whole is doing things which are demoralising the enemy - load up your hibs/mids and play them. (rather than the people that flock to the side with more relics... you know who you are)

for example, there's two ways to solve an population imbalance.

1. stop half of team A from playing
2. move some of team A to team B

Which one do you think is more fun for all concerned?

Don't go being a jackass and trying to sabotage your own realm mates, don't go around deciding how other people should play. Then there might be a bit less animosity in the game...

And monkeys might start flying out of my butt...

carry on!

 

[Cromcruaich]

imagine that you are playing in a different time zone everyone in your group/guild is in a different time zone. You decide to take the relicsat silly oclock in the morning (our time) however for you its prime time. (what ever that is) now you spend all your gaming time getting the relic and returning it to a guild keep that you think will be strong enough to hold it.

Only to find that the guild holding it didnt apretiate your guild spending time getting the relic so reset the keep to lvl 1.

Is it fair that your realm mates have basically given the relic to the other realms and no matter how much you ask you cant say "hey release the keep" and we wil take over.

I wasnt around for the whole TT fiasco but what i dont understand is that the majority of people who claim they didnt agree with TT went over to avalon they didnt quit.

In the end GOA may have been heavy handed but what was stopping TT from going ok we lowered our keep down to lvl 1 we can now log on to whatever realm and go raid that keep take the relic for realm xx. That is what i beleive goa wanted to stop.

Lowering a keep for IRVR is different than lowering a relic keep for your realm to raid OR even return. if they really felt bad for it they should have just released the keep and let anotehr guild take over they arnt forced to defend that keep. Hell they could have logged onto the other realm and organised a retake while it was still increasing in rank. Either way they did it badly.

Your missing the important point - which isn't the keep lowering, but the action that goa took in response. See my posts above.

 

[Flimgoblin]

They could of scripted something to spawn additional guards for the wee hours - i'm certain that would be within their ability.

Sounds like a big balance change to the game - pretty sure Mythic keep the keys on that.

 

[Cromcruaich]

If you read through alot of Kagato's posts you can clearly see that he is quite happy with the situation RVRwise. So.. cant see why he would lie about that tbh.

On the rest, yea, sad innit :/

I've read em, but I still don't believe him. He must be selfdellusional - would explain a lot.

 

[Gahn]

Sounds like a big balance change to the game - pretty sure Mythic keep the keys on that.

Pretty sure if they can spawn uber guards to "solve" the dueling contends, they can script em to pop if a % of enemies is in an x Zone from y to z Time.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Sounds like a big balance change to the game - pretty sure Mythic keep the keys on that.

Doesnt sound like a big balance change to me - script additional pops between 2-6 (for example). Not like it would of affected primetime play. Just would of affected the early morning raiders.

They wouldnt be altering the code - I presume it would be easy to script as gms can pop mobs, presume they can depop them as well.


Maybe Req could let us know if this is a possible solution? Or am I overstating the case - is his position that there is no problem to address in the first place?

 

[Flimgoblin]

Doesnt sound like a big balance change to me - script additional pops between 2-6 (for example). Not like it would of affected primetime play. Just would of affected the early morning raiders.

They wouldnt be altering the code - I presume it would be easy to script as gms can pop mobs, presume they can depop them as well.

sorry, I should have said "a balance change" maybe not a big one, but it would affect things. It would also say "we are not a 24 hour game"...

I like the idea but I'm playing devil's advocate

Personally I think the system needs to be changed from the ground up, but that requires Mythic.
(Might happen in 1.89 never know)

 

[Flimgoblin]

sorry, I should have said "a balance change" maybe not a big one, but it would affect things. It would also say "we are not a 24 hour game"...

I like the idea but I'm playing devil's advocate

Personally I think the system needs to be changed from the ground up, but that requires Mythic.
(Might happen in 1.89 never know)

Plus, it's only a big problem for the community on Dyvet - it's just an inconvenience on other servers.

That and AC raids can sometimes have a beneficial side - e.g. if one realm is totally dominating (has all 6 relics and no sign of ever losing them prime time) a 3am raid might reset the balance a little.

Though you could get around that by making retakes possible at 3am, but not takes.

Though it's probably easier if they just remove the relics entirely then

 

[Cromcruaich]

Plus, it's only a big problem for the community on Dyvet - it's just an inconvenience on other servers.

That and AC raids can sometimes have a beneficial side - e.g. if one realm is totally dominating (has all 6 relics and no sign of ever losing them prime time) a 3am raid might reset the balance a little.

Though you could get around that by making retakes possible at 3am, but not takes.

Though it's probably easier if they just remove the relics entirely then

Yea, they could just script it for duvet I guess. Pure conjecture ofcourse. Also doesnt stop people AC raiding completely, just stop couple of groups doing it.

Infact, if 1/3 of a realm all go to the effort to setup an early morning raid, then well, they arguably deserve to reap the reward.

Its a solution that looks like it could work to me. Though fair is fair - no AC raids for a while, so thanx for that albies.

 

[Sharkith]

is his position that there is no problem to address in the first place?

yes thats his position. He clearly stated it from the outset and stuck to it even when he pretended to want to discuss it. Its why it got to me so much.

This is a very very important issue for the game, make no mistake. It is a design flaw. The real problem here is that GOA have dug themselves into a trench and deny it is even a problem. Worse still they have right here in this thread had the arrogance to go on an say the game is more important than you.

The community can more or less agree on most things. Apart from individuals like Kagato most people recognise the problems here.

A second related problem that GOA are silent on is that it is a legitimate in game feature to be able to lower a keep, even if that keep has a relic in it. Yet they are happy to wave a ban stick when people used that legitimate in game feature.... smell the hypocrisy anyone?

 

[Darzil]

A second related problem that GOA are silent on is that it is a legitimate in game feature to be able to lower a keep, even if that keep has a relic in it. Yet they are happy to wave a ban stick when people used that legitimate in game feature.... smell the hypocrisy anyone?

And indeed when people kill monsters someone else has already pulled. Or when people find and use abusable bugs. Or various other things. All in game features, all bannable.


My opinion - didn't agree with the TT bannings, didn't agree with their action either. I think it's the community, not the game, that needs to change to fix this. When did 'it's possible therefore it's justified' become an acceptible way of life ? When did 'unless they make it impossible to be an ass, I'll continue to be one' become acceptable ?

Darzil

 

[Sorin]

i've read 28 pages of this thread now,
And i still can't seem to find the point of it.

Everyone is flaming everyone. now why is that?
people got their rights to have their own opinions.

Its like flaming me because i figured it was okay to take my mobil phone with me to the toilet. so?

If this is about the population. Well.. Those who don't want to play should leave, and those who wants to play should stay, simple eh?

I think Dyvet is fine as it is now. If you don't, well thats your problem.

Is it really worth quiting the game cuz many of your pals left?

Well.. welcome to my world bitch! 4 years ago i had 16 RL friends playing the game.. now there's 1 and he's only semi active.

i can say right now, that i won't leave the game untill Dyvet gets closed.
or i get baned for some strange reason

If its about AC raids i don't give a fuck.. people says it kills the server, and other people says it kills to breathe air.

Now if its about TT's actions i don't give a fuck either.. sure it was an unfortunate incident. but thats it! its over, get it?

Oh one more thing.
Now i'm not quite sure why Requiel is here.. well ofc to help/observe and report, but other than that i don't know.... Now i know that he's not here to get flamed and accused of not even trying to fix the problems.


And final. DAoC will die sonner or later, and the servers will be closed. Sadly nothing is forever here.

If you like the game, enjoy it while you can. If you don't then fuck off.

:kissit:

and Bye Bye pip. i have wished it for many days, and now you're finaly leaving.

 

[Cromcruaich]

And indeed when people kill monsters someone else has already pulled. Or when people find and use abusable bugs. Or various other things. All in game features, all bannable.


My opinion - didn't agree with the TT bannings, didn't agree with their action either. I think it's the community, not the game, that needs to change to fix this. When did 'it's possible therefore it's justified' become an acceptible way of life ? When did 'unless they make it impossible to be an ass, I'll continue to be one' become acceptable ?

Darzil

Yea, but you know how the lowering the keep to l1 is distingushable from the examples you mention above. Also, you know that when someone duel pulls monsters youve already pulled - they dont get suspended unless it's a persistant offence - initially you would just get a GM over who would give em a verbal slapping and tell em to move on. Thats if a GM was in game. An abusable bug isnt a feature by the way, whereas lowering a keep most certainly is a feature delibaretly programmed into the game. Anyhow, you can fill in the other differences yourself.

In the light of GoA's position made clear here, a verbal slapping would of been a good and reasonable place to start with TT. Again, its the way the whole thing was handled that is the crux of the dispute, rather than the action by TT itself.

 

[Cromcruaich]

i....

i'd advise you to read through them again.

 

[Conway]

aye Belis good point but have you seen any evidence of mis reporting yet? I will email you any coverage this gets and your welcome to come back here and hold me responsible. I have yet tyo see anything corroborating your claims and Conways. I sometimes feel its all alot of smoke to avoid the real issue.

Conway where did this particular thing result in major problems?

Look closer to home. I don't see anyone refuting the facts I put before you all. So finally ask yourself Conway, Belis and GOA what are the real facts here? Look around you. Do you see any real serious objections that the people here agree the following:

• this is a game design issue and GOA point blank refuse to address or even recognise it. I see Flim and GOA your silent on this one. Yet it is not in peoples heads especially when they tell you they USED THE GAME TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER.

• Both sides (except GOA) now agree that AC raids griefed people. Even people have agreed they did it to grief people and GOA deny this is a reality!!

• Both sides agree that this is a game design issue. GOA have not indicated they will even act on their behalf and sympathise with them.

• Both sides agree there was little GOA could do about alarm clock raids - they agree with GOA. In fact I am with them here.

• Both sides admit that the TT thing should have been handled by the community differently.

As yet I see no serious challenges to these facts. If you want to disagree say so now.

If anything the pro TT people have more to object to.

So answer the questions then.

Finally you can start a discussion but if you don't even try to engage your worse that the people fighting.

I fail to see where I am not engaging in this discussion. I am not commenting on everything in this thread. With respect it is hard to keep up with the volume that you post. Real life only permits me to post at this level occasionally.

In my posts I am discussing points that interest me. One point was I felt a personal attack on someone was getting out of hand. If the referee makes a decision which you feel is too strong, but others feel is too weak, he does not necessarily deserve a personal attack. Sharkith you have chosen in the past to try and organise people. It did not always help. There was the attempt a couple of years ago to make the whole of Hibernia Prydwen move to the US servers for example. I'm not sure that your continued analysis of what happened with TT is helping anyone to calm down any. I am very very sure that taking it to the press will achieve nothing positive and has deep potential for damage to those still trying to play DAOC.

You may describe my view of the press as naive. Admittedly I only have first hand experience of one major news story that hit the front pages of all the newspapers except the milk bottle collectors weekly for several days. I remember our newspaper reading party, where we all sat round reading front pages and awarded points to papers on accuracy. Lets put it this way, the story they chose to report was interesting though fictional. The real story was actually more interesting. I'm not repeating the details at this point when people have managed to sort out their lives and get on with them. The reporting was not in any way helpful to anyone concerned and it increased the danger of the situation in that it was a factor in someone not going to the police.

As for your points.

• this is a game design issue and GOA point blank refuse to address or even recognise it. I see Flim and GOA your silent on this one. Yet it is not in peoples heads especially when they tell you they USED THE GAME TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF EACH OTHER.

I have said myself there is a game change that would help AC raiding by increasing guards. I have pointed out this change has to come from Mythic not GOA. Have you asked whether GOA have approached Mythic and if so what reaction they got. As I said if Mythic do not have this level of aggression on US servers they may not care what is happening here.

• Both sides (except GOA) now agree that AC raids griefed people. Even people have agreed they did it to grief people and GOA deny this is a reality!!

Forget labels like griefing where you can argue what people really intended to started. AC raids have caused problems I agree. Requiel has agreed by starting this thread that there is a high level of emotion around AC raids and wanted to know why it got to the extreme it did which could be viewed as an over reaction. I think Requiel has made the point that those doing the AC raids were attacked for it and instead of backing down got annoyed and took it further in retaliation so actually the aggression towards them on these boards was part of the problem. Sorry if I've got Requiel wrong here but I don't have time to check I got real life stuff to do that is far more interesting than typing this. I know there was something said that made me (as a person who found AC raids deeply annoying) take a step back and realise the attitude of those against AC raids had possibly fueled the situation. We had done too much throwing abuse and not enough looking at it from the other persons viewpoint.

• Both sides agree that this is a game design issue. GOA have not indicated they will even act on their behalf and sympathise with them.

basically point one again.

• Both sides agree there was little GOA could do about alarm clock raids - they agree with GOA. In fact I am with them here.

Yes. GOA say they can't make a rule to make it illegal to attack keeps at certain times. I can see their problem here. For one thing if they make a rule it has to really apply to all servers, thats one reason that they can't just make the rules to suit a few people on Duvet.

• Both sides admit that the TT thing should have been handled by the community differently.

Good. If they do then that is progress. I think if everyone admits that the TT thing should have been handled by the community differently then they might accept that there is no real point in focusing on what GOA should have done differently. All sides are composed of human beings. Nobody got this right. It is time to forget that and move on. Concentrating on it is hindering progress.

As yet I see no serious challenges to these facts. If you want to disagree say so now.

If anything the pro TT people have more to object to.

So answer the questions then.

Finally you can start a discussion but if you don't even try to engage your worse that the people fighting.

I hope you are now satisfied that I have responded sufficiently. I did not intend to post as much as I have and I apologise to anyone else trying to read this thread. I do not wish to take this to personal messages with Sharkith because I couldn't possibly keep up with the volume of writing that would involve.

aye Belis good point but have you seen any evidence of mis reporting yet? I will email you any coverage this gets and your welcome to come back here and hold me responsible. I have yet tyo see anything corroborating your claims and Conways. I sometimes feel its all alot of smoke to avoid the real issue.

Worryingly I take it this means you have actually gone to the press. I have seen no evidence of mis reporting because I have seen no reporting. I don't know that the DAOC community as a whole would support taking this to the press, but at least you admit you are responsible for whatever happens. It could get no coverage because we are not interesting. I see little chance of it doing good. I see a possibility for real and serious harm particularly if only one side has their views publicised. Whatever happens you have chosen to take a serious risk.

Do you really think that someone who is angered by someone calling them names on a forum is going to be happy about that name calling being quoted in the press? Do you really think that bad publicity is going to make a company invest more in the future of a game?

If I was still playing I would be very angry that someone has chosen to take this to the press. Fortunately I am not.

I now have real life. I am sure you will have more to say. Please bear in mind that if I do not respond it does not mean that I agree. Out talking someone does not mean you convinced them it just means you talk a lot.

 

[Cromcruaich]

A lot there conway, however there is no way I can move on, and I think quite a few fellow guildies (and I would venture TT also) feel the same after the lack of admission of misshandling from Requiel and GoA. The feelings of injustice are too deep and won't be forgotten as the principles involved run so much deeper than the game itself.

So yes, when people say, all this fuss about lowering a keep to level one then two people getting a weeks suspension- move on and get back to playing the server - then on the face of it, that seems reasonable. But some of us are principled people (i'm not implying you're not - non of that othering stuff from me!) and the issue is the way it has been mishandled - the feelings generated by the whole episode are much more than the sum of the episodes parts.

 

[Conway]

i'd advise you to read through them again.

I'd advise you not to. Have a beer, eat cake, even play the game.

 

[Conway]

A lot there conway, however there is no way I can move on, and I think quite a few fellow guildies (and I would venture TT also) feel the same after the lack of admission of misshandling from Requiel and GoA. The feelings of injustice are too deep and won't be forgotten as the principles involved run so much deeper than the game itself.

OK I can accept that in a way. You get something sort of set up as a point of principle, focus on it too long, and it becomes more important than the game. Once people are in that state they can't break out of it. Its a shame. It doesn't do them or anyone else any good. But its a fair, honest and understandable reply.

 

[Cromcruaich]

OK I can accept that in a way. You get something sort of set up as a point of principle, focus on it too long, and it becomes more important than the game. Once people are in that state they can't break out of it. Its a shame. It doesn't do them or anyone else any good. But its a fair, honest and understandable reply.

Aye