9/11 again

[Paradroid]

Most of the fuel in the second collision burned outside the building upon impact. However the impact was much lower down the building, and the impact also damaged a great many more of the structural supports lining the outside of the building. For those reasons, it collapsed before the North tower which was hit first.

In the first explosion, a great deal of the fuel from the aircraft burned inside the building.

And I won't say this again - the government doesn't need to 'disprove' any crackpot theories. Its the job of the crackpots to prove their theories.

You can say it as many times as you like, but if the government purport a theory that defies the laws of physics I'd like a better explanation (thanks).

I find it truly amazing (and really quite scary) that the governments conspiracy theory is so widely, completely, and blindly accepted.

The burden of proof???

Whoa there horsey! Just wait a second!

2000 people died on 11/9/2001, many of them British...I think the least we can expect is a proper fucking investigation? No?

The British government spent more time and energy investigationg the Menendez assassination than the US did with 911. The US spent more time & money investigating whether or not Bill Cinton lied about getting his cock sucked than they did with 911. That's 'Fact'.

There's loads of video evidence from 911, as we all know. Unfortunately, what video evidence we have, is suspicious. Three buildings miraculously collapse. One airliner performs impossible stunts, before morphing into a small jet/missile, then disintigrating on impact with the Pentagon, but somehow manages to bore one smallish hole through multiple layers of a highly reinforced structure. The flight that passengers took-over and crashed looked remarkably like every other airliner that's been shot down, and nothing like every other airliner that's actually crashed.

...
Controlled demolition my arse. Have you ever seen a building prepared for demolition with explosives? You can't hide that. The building fell because of damage from falling debris and fire. Fact.
...

Yes, you can hide it. You're just used to seeing properly prepared legal demolitions, where they do everything to protect people and other buildings from debris. The explosives are within the buidling, destroying the ground supports.

And stop saying they never knew it could happen! That's a down-right lie!

Anyway, I've said it numerous times in the past, the proof is there in front of you in the videos. The three buildings that collapsed were demolished. Before you get onto the high-horse and point out all the other posts which simply state "that 'aint true", I'll repeat the main tenant of my argument for a demolition. Free-fall. All three buildings free-fell into their own foot-prints. Do you have any idea was the statistical probablities are for that to happen, not just once but three times??? It's crazy odds. Stupid crazy odds. Just stupid. And I'm not even mentioning the probablilties of running a simulated attack at the exact same time that an actual attack occurs (which also happened on 7/7)...the odds are 'grains of sand on the panet' stuff.

I've studied engineering, I understand advanced physics. This isn't advanced physics. This is basic Newtonian physics. This is Gravity. What you're seeing is the absence of any resistance (which is what controlled demolitions attempt to do).

I quite liked the fact that someone mentioned the gravitational experiments with the feather...if you dropped a hammer off the top of any of the three towers as they started to collapse, the hammer would hit the ground a mere whisper ahead of the building...which would be physically impossible without removing the structural supports.

WHY THE FU*K DO YOU THINK WE EVEN HAVE SUCH A THING AS DEMOLITIONS?????? (because buildings are difficult to bring down?)



Description of demolition.

Description of building implosion.



Weblinkadage, explaining (just in case you're really stupid) how demolitions work.

...
In this article, we'll find out how demolition crews plan and execute these spectacular implosions. The violent blasts and billowing dust clouds may look chaotic, but a building implosion is actually one of the most precisely planned, delicately-balanced engineering feats you'll ever see.
...
Generally speaking, blasters will explode the major support columns on the lower floors first and then a few upper stories. In a 20-story building, for example, the blasters might blow the columns on the first and second floor, as well as the 12th and 15th floors. In most cases, blowing the support structures on the lower floors is sufficient for collapsing the building, but loading columns on upper floors helps break the building material into smaller pieces as it falls. This makes for easier clean-up following the blast.
...

...and my personal favourite:

...
The Bigger They Come, the Harder They Fall
The basic idea of explosive demolition is quite simple: If you remove the support structure of a building at a certain point, the section of the building above that point will fall down on the part of the building below that point. If this upper section is heavy enough, it will collide with the lower part with sufficient force to cause significant damage. The explosives are just the trigger for the demolition. It's gravity that brings the building down.
....

So, back to the burden of proof. If you belive the whacky government conspiracy theory, then you prove to me how a building can free fall without a controlled demolition. It's against the laws of physics (captain).

PS The structural integrity argument could only ever hold water if the entire building was quite literally a 'house of cards'...literally...made of paper, loosely assembled....and we know it's built with steel and concrete, so...

 

[Tom]

Quality bit of cock-writing is that. Explosives within the ground supports, lol.

Pathetic Paradroid, so disappointing from you. 0/10 - must try harder

 

[TdC]

in an aside, a Dutch uni and a pro demo man were recently asked to look at the entirety of 09/11 and disprove the conspiracy theories offered up in "Loose Change, 2nd edit" that they could. They managed quite well tbh, getting every theory disproved, up to building 7 because they could not prove that #7 could fall down naturally in the way it did.

The opinion of the demolition person was not voiced directly regarding building 7, but he did imply that the building falling like that was not possible without organized structual damage. Meaning that the chaotic damage resulting from the building next to it collapsing may have been enough to bring down #7 but would not have brought down the building in the manner in which it aparantly did.

 

[Tom]

How conspiracy theorists work

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=13374

http://servers.ses-gaming.net/wtcflashes.avi

Classic. Numpties get new footage to watch. Numpties see some flashes. Numpties immediately suspect explosives. Rest of the numpties go wild with joy.

Meanwhile, nobody actually suggests that the flashes are falling debris. Because thats too obvious. I mean for crying out loud, you can actually see the 'explosions' flying through the air, towards the ground.

 

[Asha]

I am pretty sure that 7 collapsed because of 1 and 2 being on the same ... I don't know the technical word for it... footing? They were all part of the same complex going far underground, so the collapse of the 2 huge buildings shook building badly. Several others had to be pulled down because of the structural damage iirc.

These buildings simpley weren't built to withstand 747s flying into them.

 

[Bodhi]

Fucking hell you big bunch of gays, and they say drugs make you paranoid?

 

[Yoni]

At least Paranoid is arguing using logic rather than resorting to insults to put his case across...

 

[Aada]

You can say it as many times as you like, but if the government purport a theory that defies the laws of physics I'd like a better explanation (thanks).

I find it truly amazing (and really quite scary) that the governments conspiracy theory is so widely, completely, and blindly accepted.

The burden of proof???

Whoa there horsey! Just wait a second!

2000 people died on 11/9/2001, many of them British...I think the least we can expect is a proper fucking investigation? No?

The British government spent more time and energy investigationg the Menendez assassination than the US did with 911. The US spent more time & money investigating whether or not Bill Cinton lied about getting his cock sucked than they did with 911. That's 'Fact'.

There's loads of video evidence from 911, as we all know. Unfortunately, what video evidence we have, is suspicious. Three buildings miraculously collapse. One airliner performs impossible stunts, before morphing into a small jet/missile, then disintigrating on impact with the Pentagon, but somehow manages to bore one smallish hole through multiple layers of a highly reinforced structure. The flight that passengers took-over and crashed looked remarkably like every other airliner that's been shot down, and nothing like every other airliner that's actually crashed.




Yes, you can hide it. You're just used to seeing properly prepared legal demolitions, where they do everything to protect people and other buildings from debris. The explosives are within the buidling, destroying the ground supports.

And stop saying they never knew it could happen! That's a down-right lie!

Anyway, I've said it numerous times in the past, the proof is there in front of you in the videos. The three buildings that collapsed were demolished. Before you get onto the high-horse and point out all the other posts which simply state "that 'aint true", I'll repeat the main tenant of my argument for a demolition. Free-fall. All three buildings free-fell into their own foot-prints. Do you have any idea was the statistical probablities are for that to happen, not just once but three times??? It's crazy odds. Stupid crazy odds. Just stupid. And I'm not even mentioning the probablilties of running a simulated attack at the exact same time that an actual attack occurs (which also happened on 7/7)...the odds are 'grains of sand on the panet' stuff.

I've studied engineering, I understand advanced physics. This isn't advanced physics. This is basic Newtonian physics. This is Gravity. What you're seeing is the absence of any resistance (which is what controlled demolitions attempt to do).

I quite liked the fact that someone mentioned the gravitational experiments with the feather...if you dropped a hammer off the top of any of the three towers as they started to collapse, the hammer would hit the ground a mere whisper ahead of the building...which would be physically impossible without removing the structural supports.

WHY THE FU*K DO YOU THINK WE EVEN HAVE SUCH A THING AS DEMOLITIONS?????? (because buildings are difficult to bring down?)



Description of demolition.

Description of building implosion.



Weblinkadage, explaining (just in case you're really stupid) how demolitions work.





...and my personal favourite:




So, back to the burden of proof. If you belive the whacky government conspiracy theory, then you prove to me how a building can free fall without a controlled demolition. It's against the laws of physics (captain).

PS The structural integrity argument could only ever hold water if the entire building was quite literally a 'house of cards'...literally...made of paper, loosely assembled....and we know it's built with steel and concrete, so...

And the freefall argument comes up every time thankyou the buildings came down like a controlled demolition not 1 not 2 but 3 TIMES!!

Is it really hard to believe that something isn't right about 9/11? the goverment did no investigation and as Tom pointed out they don't have too they just pointed the finger at Bin Laden and had their scapegoat.

The goverment had the means and the motive to carry out this, it just so happens that on THAT day the most feared armed force in the world was on a complete stand down and playing ''War Games'' and it just so happens that on that day no USAF was in the air to protect the pentagon when the first plane hit the tower?

NO effort was made at all to defend any airspace and they had AMPLE time to get fighter jets into the air and shoot one down but they didn't on that day the whole thing fucking stinks.

What about the ZERO amount of wreckage found from the BIG ASS jet that hit the pentagon? no bodies no nothing to resemble that of a plane! Not to mention the obstacle course the plane had to fly to even get to its target and an amature at the controls did all this?

And please no ''the plane disintergrated on impact'' as we all know is a pack of lies because when the planes hit the towers you could still see parts of the plane.

 

[yaruar]

Anyway, I've said it numerous times in the past, the proof is there in front of you in the videos. The three buildings that collapsed were demolished. Before you get onto the high-horse and point out all the other posts which simply state "that 'aint true", I'll repeat the main tenant of my argument for a demolition. Free-fall. All three buildings free-fell into their own foot-prints. Do you have any idea was the statistical probablities are for that to happen, not just once but three times??? It's crazy odds. Stupid crazy odds. Just stupid. And I'm not even mentioning the probablilties of running a simulated attack at the exact same time that an actual attack occurs (which also happened on 7/7)...the odds are 'grains of sand on the panet' stuff.

I've studied engineering, I understand advanced physics. This isn't advanced physics. This is basic Newtonian physics. This is Gravity. What you're seeing is the absence of any resistance (which is what controlled demolitions attempt to do).

Where did you study engineering, you certainly don't seem to know a lot about civil engineering or structures

If you actually watch the footage of the two main towers both collapse differently, one collapses off to the side, not straight down, although both of them concertina as they go down. The second tower collapsed around it's central reinforcing tower which is why it went straight down, the second collapsed with it's central supporting tower and went down at an angle. Mot much of one, but it wouldn't, this isn't a tree being cut at an angle at the base, this is a fuckoff tonnage skyscraper collapsing in on itself through it's sheer weight and the load being.

Don't get me wrong, i'm a conspiracy theorist, but the WTC wasn't a controlled demolition, bear in mind previously the structures have stood up to 6 of their lower level floors being blown out completely by a massive bomb. The design of the building was superb and had multiple redundancies to stop it collapsing. The only reason it did was that the fireproofing of the steel was blown off because they didn't thing to account for it being hit by shrapnal at 400mph combined with an explosion of tonnes of aviation fuel...

 

[GDW]

For all you conspiracy theorists....my son has a question.......does Santa exist?

 

[yaruar]

For all you conspiracy theorists....my son has a question.......does Santa exist?

No, he is a product of the CIA program of western cultural hegemony brainwashing the world to believe that christian, western imperialism is beneficial to all. All the Islamic suicide bombers are part of this program too, they are just fanatical texans who rub fake tan onto their faces and wear towels on their heads to fool the world into thinking that Osama is evil (osama incidently is really a Wyoming farm hand called Randy Rodgers who was brainwashed and dropped in Saudi Arabis 30 years ago to infiltrate the oil companies, although his training went haywire.)

 

[TdC]

And the freefall argument comes up every time thankyou the buildings came down like a controlled demolition not 1 not 2 but 3 TIMES!!

actually only one, ie building 7, came down in anything resembling controlled demo. the other two were just happenstance. in fact, it's a "lucky" break (excuse the pun tbh) that the top of tower 1 didn't slide off and drop onto the streets/buildings next to it imo.

What about the ZERO amount of wreckage found from the BIG ASS jet that hit the pentagon? no bodies no nothing to resemble that of a plane! Not to mention the obstacle course the plane had to fly to even get to its target and an amature at the controls did all this?

not so. this has been simulator tested with a guy having only light training in a chesna (just like the alledged pentagon plane pilot) prior to sitting in the sim, and he managed to hit the pentagon every time. sadly enough.

And please no ''the plane disintergrated on impact'' as we all know is a pack of lies because when the planes hit the towers you could still see parts of the plane.

err yeah, but the WTC wasn't really built up to US military spec regarding structurally reinforcing the walls now was it.

What you're seeing is the absence of any resistance (which is what controlled demolitions attempt to do).

you can't see what is going on in the towers below the collapse point or in the dust cloud itself. for all you know the structual supports may be folding up like a pack of cards while the 1000's of tonnes of rubble on top of that is just falling.

 

[Tom]

If the buildings came down at near-freefall speeds, why is it that in every video, its apparent that columns and other debris from the collapse falls at much higher speeds than the buildings themselves?

Did the massive chucks of debris have rockets attached to each piece, to speed their fall?

 

[ECA]

I had avoided this thread, but I find its yet full of more smacktards talking shit.

There are fairly simple rational explanations for all of the events on 9/11.

Occams razor ffs.

Engage your fucking brains and evaluate the information from your own perspective rather than A) the conspiracy nutjobs POV or B) the us govts POV.

Simply looking at the facts will tell you why the buildings fell the way they did.

Jesus I dont even want to waste any more time, your fucking retards if you believe they blew the towers up.

 

[Furr]

All i can say is that thank god that consipracy theorists of 9/11 are in the minority in comparisson to the majority.

There's a big problem people who believe perpetuate the 9/11 conspiracy theory and also most other conspiracy theories. The more you think about them, the more you realize how much they depend on circumstantial evidence, facts without analysis or documentation, quotes taken out of context and the scattered testimony of traumatized eyewitnesses.

Anyway its often said that big events, moon landing, princess diana death, JFK always spawn conspiracy theories? Some people can't take it in that big events like how a President being assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that points to the unpredictability and randomness of life and unsettles them. In that sense these people believe in an idea that there is a malevolent controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way, comforting.

Muslims most likely believe in it because their religion has been tarnished by the rest of the world with a great crime, it makes them scared and deeply unhappy. But but hearing these conspiracy theories they can blame who they view is their antagonist. Blame a percieved enemy for conspiring against them. It makes them feel better, as they can now think its not their fault or fault of their religion.

There is not much you can do to argue with these people. I just resort to ridicule since I get to entertain myself at their expense. Trying to debate these theories results in the same problems as when dealing with people in denial.

I acutally view people like this with high distain, they have a fear in them, and I would not value them as part of my team if i had a choice as I couldn't count on them to make rational decisions in intense situtions. These people also tend to panic then things get intense. Its just a fact that some people are like this and some people aren't.

 

[ECA]

On another note Furr, they will only use logic to a point, once you go so far in the argument they will resort to re-iterating points and completely ignore your statements.

FFS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.

IS IT SO HARD TO COMPREHEND LIKE 40,000 GALLONS OF JET FUEL = FIRE = HOT = CAUSES STEEL NOT TO MELT BUT DOES CAUSE MASSIVE LOSS OF STRENGTH RESULTING IN THE TOP SEGMENTS OF BUILDING COLLAPSING VERTICALLY DOWN ONTO THE REST. OMGWTF.

SECONDLY WHY FLY PLANES INTO BUILDING AND THEN BLOW THEM UP, EXPLAIN THIS TO ME OMGWTF PANCAKES ON BUNNY RABBITS.

 

[TdC]

holy shit ECA take a chill pill or something

 

[Tom]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ECA again.

fs

 

[Jupitus]

I have a conspiracy theory about the conspiracy theorist... that guy on alot of those videos seems to be toting a book in his hand alot of the time... I have a theory that he made up his theory in order to milk the masses of thousands of bucks straight into his own bank account....

 

[Calaen]

The two sides will never agree. The government love having control of people.

In all honesy who actually gives a fuck, it happened get over it move on, there will be other crazy shit going on soon enough to think about.

 

[Aada]

All i can say is that thank god that consipracy theorists of 9/11 are in the minority in comparisson to the majority.

There's a big problem people who believe perpetuate the 9/11 conspiracy theory and also most other conspiracy theories. The more you think about them, the more you realize how much they depend on circumstantial evidence, facts without analysis or documentation, quotes taken out of context and the scattered testimony of traumatized eyewitnesses.

Anyway its often said that big events, moon landing, princess diana death, JFK always spawn conspiracy theories? Some people can't take it in that big events like how a President being assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that points to the unpredictability and randomness of life and unsettles them. In that sense these people believe in an idea that there is a malevolent controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way, comforting.

Muslims most likely believe in it because their religion has been tarnished by the rest of the world with a great crime, it makes them scared and deeply unhappy. But but hearing these conspiracy theories they can blame who they view is their antagonist. Blame a percieved enemy for conspiring against them. It makes them feel better, as they can now think its not their fault or fault of their religion.

There is not much you can do to argue with these people. I just resort to ridicule since I get to entertain myself at their expense. Trying to debate these theories results in the same problems as when dealing with people in denial.

I acutally view people like this with high distain, they have a fear in them, and I would not value them as part of my team if i had a choice as I couldn't count on them to make rational decisions in intense situtions. These people also tend to panic then things get intense. Its just a fact that some people are like this and some people aren't.

Don't worry after seeing Bin Ladans picture on every news station for 2 solid weeks i was almost brain washed into believeing he was the mastermind behind it all.

Then i woke up unfortunatly for sheep like you it will never happen.

 

[Mofo8]

I had avoided this thread, but I find its yet full of more smacktards talking shit.

There are fairly simple rational explanations for all of the events on 9/11.

Occams razor ffs.

Engage your fucking brains and evaluate the information from your own perspective rather than A) the conspiracy nutjobs POV or B) the us govts POV.

Simply looking at the facts will tell you why the buildings fell the way they did.

Jesus I dont even want to waste any more time, your fucking retards if you believe they blew the towers up.

Run this over your razor...
http://www.rense.com/general73/911a.htm

 

[Furr]

Don't worry after seeing Bin Ladans picture on every news station for 2 solid weeks i was almost brain washed into believeing he was the mastermind behind it all.

Then i woke up unfortunatly for sheep like you it will never happen.

And ladies and gentlemen we have the lines that prove just how much of a tool Aada is.

Quick mate lookout the CIA and MI5 have bugged your house as your part of some sort of underground group revealing that the whole world is being run by a secret evil organistation with supervillains with amazing powers.

Or is it i hit a nail somewhere in their. which part? do tell? Buti guess it hurts? does it? Ohhh i love how when people like you with your preaching of crazy crackport notions have them dismissed or come up against something that is true you come out with "brainwashing" "mind control" "tin hats", Fool! Almost sounds like the Matrix lol, Wtf ROFL. "then i woke up" OMFG you serious!!

But hey we all know that you find solice in lies and malformed information based or conspiracy formed notions, junkyard science further twisted to your own purposes, out of context information and very little if any true facts other than grainy footage that shows you want you want to see while ignoring the mass of other information, reports, studies, footage that contradicts it.

Please if anything whatever beef you have with america/goverments/institutions etc, go get a clue. You just embarass yourself over and over like all these fools who believe in this conspiracy.

 

[Raven]

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/ gogogo

 

[Krazeh]

Quick question for the conspiracy theorists. What purpose did the US Government have for killing 3000 of their citizens, destroying 3 buildings in the World Trade Centre and destroying a chunk of their military command?

Before 9/11 Bush and the US Government had no interest in Afghanistan or Osama Bin Laden, however it was clear that Bush wanted to go back to Iraq and finish off what daddy didn't manage. This begs the question of why they would concoct a plot that would lead to diverting resources from that aim and instead have them go and search around Afghanistan for Osama.

Also how is it that not a single person involved in this "conspiracy" has not come forward? Any conspiracy theory on the scale you are proposing would require hundreds of people to pull off yet noone has had an attack of conscience and spoke up. This includes all the people who would have been required to wire up the WTC for controlled demolition and therefore would have spent a considerable amount of time around the people who died when the towers collapsed.

And just a final point, I take it you are all aware of how a conman operates? The most important aspect of a con is showing whoever you are trying to con exactly what they expect to see so they don't have any reason to question what has happened. If the US Government had a hand in this do you not think they would have ensured that we saw exactly what we expected to see and not have left loads of little supposed questions floating around for conspiracy theorists to jump all over?

 

[Scouse]

Controlled demolition my arse. Have you ever seen a building prepared for demolition with explosives? You can't hide that. The building fell because of damage from falling debris and fire. Fact.

I know you're amongst the most intractable on here Tom but prove that what you say there is a fact.



The whole point of "conspiracy theories" are that they're just that. A theory. However, time and again these things are proven to be correct.

Tell me how a plane can vapourise when hitting a building. I dare ya.

I don't give a fuck how hard you wang a lump of metal at a building - you get debris. LOTS of it. It doesn't just turn into "gas". Has anyone ever heard of a plane sublimating?

It's fucking shit. It's right there in front of our eyes but we don't want to believe it - just like the vast majority of the western world.

Why? Because we're quite fucking alright Jack. And injustices visited on a bunch of anonymous towel-heads who don't share the same values as us in the west (resulting in their terrorist actions against us, which we use to justify our aggression) don't matter one jot to any of us.

If it did we'd be down at Parliament right now protesting at the killing of Palastinians/demanding we take action in Africa/protesting at anticompetetive behaviour etc. etc. etc.

There's a whole world of shit that gets done in the West's name but as long as we can sit on our increasingly lardy asses, surfing the net, watching TV, eating big bags of Doritos and getting pizzas delivered whilst driving nice cars and earning enough cash to impress the women we want to fuck then we'll let our respective Governments do whatever the fuck they like, to anyone they like, as long as they do it in a way that doesn't make us feel overly guilty.

We, as a nation, tacitly approve of our Government's actions and then, when something bad happens, wonder why people would want to hurt us.


Don't get me wrong. As a rule I don't condone terrorism - however you define it. But I don't have one doubt in my mind that the people who we choose to call our "leaders" are any better than the despots that we fight.

I'm guilty of this too. I occasionally vent my spleen to alleviate the guilt I feel and now I'm off downstairs to share a joint with the missus whilst watching my 40" telly. Tomorrow I'll go to work and earn a wad and only briefly will I be thinking of the Palestinians that the Israeli's are killing on a daily basis, with the support of our so-called "democracy".

What I certainly won't be doing is marching on London in protest. Apart from the fact that I couldn't be arsed it's illegal to do it nowadays without informing the Government and the Police first.

 

[Asha]

Well the answer is simple. They wanted a way to start up the war machine. Nothing pulls the economy out of a rut (like we were in at the time) like a war. Neverending war vs. faceless enemies... paranoia at home enabling mass big-brother operations where the president can listen in on whoever the fuck he wants w/o asking a judge or congress. Clinton had started really toning down our military as far as numbers and new programs for new weapons/ships/etc... the Republicans live for this shit. It keeps them in power like nothing else. Americans are afraid = they vote Republican.

Also it gives us a reason to go into the middle east because most Americans think 9/11 = all arabs and don't care that Iraq had nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Not that I belive it

 

[ECA]

GOOGLE

JFC, how much shit are people gonna repost thats already been debunked, btw scouse, after about the 6th line I agree with you entirely.

 

[Tom]

Tell me how a plane can vapourise when hitting a building. I dare ya.

I don't give a fuck how hard you wang a lump of metal at a building - you get debris. LOTS of it. It doesn't just turn into "gas". Has anyone ever heard of a plane sublimating?

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html - plenty of debris there.

 

[Asha]

I wish I had a job like that Blowing up stuff!