9/11 again

[old.user4556]

Yeah, but none of the words make sense .

 

[Tom]

stuff

I'm loving this. Systematically disprove every conspiracy theory put forward, pose questions that remain unanswered, and slowly but eventually we arrive at the following:

The Jews did it. They've done it before.

Laughable. Its the typical conspiracy theorist defence tactic in the face of irrefutable evidence that disproves their claims - ask more questions to deflect the argument.

 

[Mofo8]

I had a whole other (bloody long) post but after reading the whole of this report on the attack on the Liberty I figured that it was more important to ask Tom to do the same (if you're up for it - bit of a gauntlet-stylee challenge).

Waffle

Mmmmhhh interesting

 

[Paradroid]

I'm loving this. Systematically disprove every conspiracy theory put forward, pose questions that remain unanswered, and slowly but eventually we arrive at the following:

The Jews did it. They've done it before.

Laughable. Its the typical conspiracy theorist defence tactic in the face of irrefutable evidence that disproves their claims - ask more questions to deflect the argument.

...a rather optimistic view of your performance so far.


It doesn't help when you incorrectly summarise an opposing argument as "jew hater", when the posters accusations were levied against Israel.

If all Freebles are Fribbles, and all Fribbles are Frobbles, is it true to say that all Freebles are Frobbles?

 

[Jupitus]

If all Freebles are Fribbles, and all Fribbles are Frobbles, is it true to say that all Freebles are Frobbles?

Yes

 

[Scouse]

I'm loving this. Systematically disprove every conspiracy theory put forward, pose questions that remain unanswered, and slowly but eventually we arrive at the following:

The Jews did it. They've done it before.

Laughable. Its the typical conspiracy theorist defence tactic in the face of irrefutable evidence that disproves their claims - ask more questions to deflect the argument.

Actually Tom - I've previously stated that I've no idea what went on at the WTC. I'm totally undecided. What I'm getting at is your stonewalling of any conspiracy theory.

TBH - I agree with a lot (if not most) of what you say on these boards but you do display a shockingly closed mind on some subjects. Have you ever considered the possibility that just perhaps one of these paranoid idiots (or in the example I gave the US Secretary of State, CIA Director, NSA Dep. Director, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) may be right?

Good to see you wouldn't take up the challenge though. I'll take that as validation m8

 

[Tom]

Are these people the same sort of people 'involved' in the WTC 'conspiracy'?

Why can those above be trusted, but their unnamed collegues not?

 

[Scouse]

Are these people the same sort of people 'involved' in the WTC 'conspiracy'?

Why can those above be trusted, but their unnamed collegues not?

Like I said - I don't know enough about the WTC conspiracy theories. I'm not arguing that point.

But there's no way I'll discount any conspiracy theory offhand. Why? Because time and again it turns out that we're fucked over by our governments. And when we scrap them (through revolution or whatever) and build a new one then we get fucked over by the new one in a different way.

If the concept of "truth" matters to you don't trust 'em. Try to find the fault in them - because fault is definately there. If it doesn't then don't worry. Just consume and make babies


If we hypothesise that the conspiracy theorists are actually right, and the Americans, or the Israelis (or whoever) did blow up the WTC then what would knowing that get you?

Pretty much f*ck all. Apart from guilt - the knowledge that our governments, to preserve our way of life, kill people with opposing views of the world indescriminately and would go so far as to kill small numbers of our own populace to generate support for their actions. And maybe depression - the realisation that the "individual" simply doesn't matter in western societies and that we've no real control over our lives.

I've said it before - people don't want to find "truth" - they just want to be happy. That's why western governments get away with the shit that they do...

 

[Paradroid]

 

[Paradroid]

I thought, in context of my earlier post, that this was funny:

If you go there right now you can see for yourself. Europe, Latin America and Asia all get the story about Afghanistan, but not the US (they don't even link to it from the US page ffs).

Everything's fine! Go about your business as if nothing is happening! Consume!

 

[Wij]

It doesn't help when you incorrectly summarise an opposing argument as "jew hater", when the posters accusations were levied against Israel.

As opposed to labelling everyone who agrees with the overwhelming evidence a Murdoch-cock-sucking Muslim-hater ?

 

[Paradroid]

As opposed to labelling everyone who agrees with the overwhelming evidence a Murdoch-cock-sucking Muslim-hater ?

I don't recall anyone saying that, and I'm not putting people into little groups either.

Also, I'm not conforming to the notion that the "overwhelming evidence" points to the pro-government conspiracy theory. I'm afraid the overwhelming evidence points to lies (at least). You've just heard the phrase so many times you believe it.

...but, I suppose, "overwhelming" is a completely relative term and you may just have a low threshold for factual-based contemplation or deduction. Miss Marple's day-job is safe for another year.

 

[Wij]

When you believe things like video cameras showing big fuck-off planes hitting buildings and discount vague crap like "well it looks similar to an explosion" then yeh it's pretty overwhelming. I go with the evidence of scientists and common sense. Feel free to go with the evidence of kids on the internet and full-time conspiracy-theorists.

 

[old.user4556]

Pretty much how I feel about it Wij.

As my dad always said; wherever there is mystery, roguery isn't far behind.

 

[Bodhi]

I reckon it was Col Mustard in the Dining Room with a Spanner.


These 9/11 conspiracy theories worry me, I'm afraid Kevin Costner is going to make another 3 hour film about it. I don't think I could cope with another one of them.

 

[Paradroid]

I reckon it was Col Mustard in the Dining Room with a Spanner.


These 9/11 conspiracy theories worry me, I'm afraid Kevin Costner is going to make another 3 hour film about it. I don't think I could cope with another one of them.

Yes, it was Rumsfeld on the grassy knoll with a bunker-buster, and Cheney in the Command & Control centre with a phone.


It's not all tinfoil hats in the conspiracy community, here's an objective mauling of the official WTC findings:

...
...But, of course, the Final NIST 9-11 report “does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached.” (NIST, 2005, p. 80, fn. 1; emphasis added.)

Indeed, if we seek the truth of the matter, we must NOT ignore the data to be observed during the actual collapses of the towers, as the NIST team admits they did. But why did they do such a non-scientific procedure as to ignore highly-relevant data? The business smacks of political constraints on what was supposed to be an “open and thorough” investigation. (See Mooney, 2005.)
...
Also, NIST constructs a computer model—but realistic cases do not actually lead to building collapse. So they “adjust” inputs until the model finally shows collapse initiation for the most severe cases. The details of these “adjustments” are hidden from us, in their computerized hypotheticals, but “the hypothesis is saved.” NIST also has Underwriters Laboratories construct models of the WTC trusses, but the models withstand all fires in tests and do NOT collapse. (See above for details.)
...

I think the Kevin Costner movie would be like Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas but with murder and kiddie porn chucked-in for good measure.

 

[Wij]

It all becomes clear