Politics 2024/25 General Election Voting Intention (2022)

[Embattle]

Well done Labour:

Kidlington fly-tipping: Criminals dump mountain of waste in field

The enormous pile of rubbish is called an "environmental catastrophe unfolding in plain sight".

www.bbc.co.uk

They're saying they "inherited" the fly-tipping problem - but they also caused it when they allowed councils to charge again by passing the local government act in 2003.

So a problem fixed by the tories in the 1980's, reintroduced by Labour in 2000's - and now Labour are pointing at the Tories and blaming them.

I read the story earlier today and detest such crimes, but I'm not sure such a massive amount of fly-tipping in one place can be pinned on either party.

 

[Scouse]

I read the story earlier today and detest such crimes, but I'm not sure such a massive amount of fly-tipping in one place can be pinned on either party.

Yes it can. Follow the argument:

This fly tipping is being caused by professional house builders getting charged (large sums) by councils for disposing of household stuff. Extensions / renovations and the like. I've been charged about a grand over the past 3 years taking stuff to the tip by myself - and if the builder had taken it he'd have been charged multiples of that.

So in the face of this extortionate charging organised crime steps in, charges them less, and fly tips it. On an industrial scale. And the builders dodge the charges.

Here's the blame: The Tories fixed this in the 80's. Builders could take their shit to the tips and fly tipping pretty much died out. Labour brought charges back in 2003. Everyone told them at the time that fly tipping would run rampant again and guess what? It's running rampant again.

Labour think that just because something is illegal everyone will bend over and do it, think it, be it. It's endemic throughout all of their legislation. It's their fucking thought process - despite what the chancellor says they see the world as they want it to be, not how it is.

This is their fault. 100%.

Government should take our shit. It's still household shit - it's stuff from building people's houses, from doing renovations etc. If government were in the least bit smart (which they're not) they'd add a 1% charge to each bit of building material to cover the cost of it's disposal - and ring-fence that cash. But we all know if they did that they'd add 2%, and take 1.5% to go towards transgender refuges or something else. Then a few years later take the other 0.5% and start charging people for tips again.

But make no mistake. This was Labour's fault. They were told about it and they did it anyway.

 

[Embattle]

You did read what type of rubbish it was before you went on your usual anti labour rant....right.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes it can. Follow the argument:

This fly tipping is being caused by professional house builders getting charged (large sums) by councils for disposing of household stuff. Extensions / renovations and the like. I've been charged about a grand over the past 3 years taking stuff to the tip by myself - and if the builder had taken it he'd have been charged multiples of that.

So in the face of this extortionate charging organised crime steps in, charges them less, and fly tips it. On an industrial scale. And the builders dodge the charges.

Here's the blame: The Tories fixed this in the 80's. Builders could take their shit to the tips and fly tipping pretty much died out. Labour brought charges back in 2003. Everyone told them at the time that fly tipping would run rampant again and guess what? It's running rampant again.

Labour think that just because something is illegal everyone will bend over and do it, think it, be it. It's endemic throughout all of their legislation. It's their fucking thought process - despite what the chancellor says they see the world as they want it to be, not how it is.

This is their fault. 100%.

Government should take our shit. It's still household shit - it's stuff from building people's houses, from doing renovations etc. If government were in the least bit smart (which they're not) they'd add a 1% charge to each bit of building material to cover the cost of it's disposal - and ring-fence that cash. But we all know if they did that they'd add 2%, and take 1.5% to go towards transgender refuges or something else. Then a few years later take the other 0.5% and start charging people for tips again.

But make no mistake. This was Labour's fault. They were told about it and they did it anyway.

Wait, so let's remove the whole Tory blame game thing.

But you're saying that the current government are responsible for something that happened in 2003?

So why hasn't it been a major issue for the past 22 years?

Generally I find your argument quite ridiculous - why should everyone pay for you to have your waste removed when you have renovations done? That's ridiculous lol.

 

[Gwadien]

and take 1.5% to go towards transgender refuges or something else.

Plus chucking out Reform lines

 

[Scouse]

You did read what type of rubbish it was before you went on your usual anti labour rant....right.

I did. Did you?

 

[Embattle]

I did. Did you?

Yes did you though?

 

[Scouse]

But you're saying that the current government are responsible for something that happened in 2003?

I said it was a Labour problem. Which it is.

Labour are blaming the Tories - but the proof is in the legislation - Labour legislation.

So why hasn't it been a major issue for the past 22 years?

It has been, increasingly. And we've talked about this multiple times on this very forum over the years.

You've been involved in those conversations. Have you forgotten already?

Generally I find your argument quite ridiculous

That's because you suck labour dick, religiously.

why should everyone pay for you to have your waste removed when you have renovations done? That's ridiculous lol.

Everybody should pay for waste disposal because if everyone doesn't pay for waste disposal then a significant proportion of the population will start fly tipping.

You might not love this fact - but it is a fact. This is how humans are, not how we would like them to be. And this is the problem with politicians that have the same mind-disease as you. The argument has now become circular - if you had read what I'd written, and understood it, you wouldn't have written such an obviously stupid thing. (And no, I don't see any reason to mince my words when confronted with obvious stupidity).

I've paid my thousands. And that's fine. I'm not a polluter - I pay. But millions won't and never will. That's why waste disposal should be free and paid out of central taxation.

We've already solved this problem. Labour have made it a problem again.

 

[Embattle]

I said it was a Labour problem. Which it is.

Labour are blaming the Tories - but the proof is in the legislation - Labour legislation.


It has been, increasingly. And we've talked about this multiple times on this very forum over the years.

You've been involved in those conversations. Have you forgotten already?



That's because you suck labour dick, religiously.


Everybody should pay for waste disposal because if everyone doesn't pay for waste disposal then a significant proportion of the population will start fly tipping.

You might not love this. But the argument has become circular. And this is the problem with politicians that have the same mind-disease as you.

I've paid my thousands. And that's fine. I'm not a polluter - I pay. But millions won't.

We've already solved this problem. Labour have made it a problem again.

The problem was never solved you numpty.

 

[Scouse]

The problem was never solved you numpty.

Fly tipping dropped to fuck all when builders and homeowners could just rock up at the tip and wang their shit in there for free. The only people who fly tipped were the ones so lazy they couldn't even be arsed driving to the tips.

It was solved.

Then Labour un-solved it by starting charging all over again. And, like before, the country is filling up with shit.

 

[Embattle]

There really isn't much hard data about reductions in fly-tipping with the removal of charges, although I'll admit it probably dropped, but certainly in no way did it solve it. It also gets away from the fact of how most local rubbish dumps work, in terms of site size, sorting, certain materials requiring special handling, etc. I've seen fly tipping done by hook loaders, probably a good chance that was part of what was involved in the article, you aren't going to have them turn up to the majority of sites for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Deebs]

I've got to agree with @Scouse here, now I have to book a slot at my local tip, they will only take certain types of rubbish. Why? Should have kept it like before, turn up and dump the crap into the correct bins, take the bins away and process the rubbish in a controlled manner.

Now some people will purposely put certain types of rubbish in their green or blue bins contaminating normal household waste. Do not tell me no one here has either done that or thought of doing it (if their local waste plant is as anal as mine).

 

[Scouse]

There's more incompetence here too. I'd been fine with the 2p income tax rise - it's fair - low income people pay a little, high income people pay a lot.

But they've U-turned again, spooked the markets and like I said @Deebs - they're coming for pension savers instead.

Reeves’s plan to ditch income tax rise prompts government bond sell-off

Switch in budget plan causes cost of UK government borrowing to rise by the most in a single day since early July

www.theguardian.com

Want to make sacrifices now so you're not dependent on the state when you're old? Not under Labour.

And the waste of it is - it won't raise what's required.

So all the shit we've got now - failing services, massive debt payments - Labour have committed to not doing anything about it. And they're going to kick responsible people to boot.

 

[Raven]

MP quits Corbyn's new left-wing party amid infighting

Independent MP Adnan Hussain claims there is a "toxic" culture in Your Party as he announces he is leaving it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Useless fucking people.

 

[Embattle]

I've got to agree with @Scouse here, now I have to book a slot at my local tip, they will only take certain types of rubbish. Why? Should have kept it like before, turn up and dump the crap into the correct bins, take the bins away and process the rubbish in a controlled manner.

Now some people will purposely put certain types of rubbish in their green or blue bins contaminating normal household waste. Do not tell me no one here has either done that or thought of doing it (if their local waste plant is as anal as mine).

A lot of the city ones brought in such systems for households simply because of traffic, like our old one (Townmead Road Re-use and Recycling Centre · Townmead Rd, Richmond TW9 4EL), because the location and volume of traffic resulted in the traffic queuing all the way out onto the main road. Where we live now, there is no booking system.

 

[Tom]

I solve the queuing issue by cycling nearly all my waste to the tip when I need to. My local tip doesn't take plasterboard, but fortunately I live near the border with Salford and they have a tip that does, equally distant from my house.

Anyway, there'd be far fewer queues if people followed the original system - reduce, re-use, recycle. Stop buying cheap tat.

 

[Scouse]

So, escalation in the waste disgrace:

Mountain of waste dumped in Oxfordshire field contains rubbish from councils

Evidence of waste from primary schools and local authorities in south-east England points to possible large-scale corruption, expert says

www.theguardian.com

Evidence of waste from primary schools and local authorities in south-east England.. .If confirmed this shows the waste is the result of large-scale fraud or corruption in local authority waste management

And this is why this is happening:

Criminal gangs can make £2,500 for each articulated lorry-load of waste they dump by taking the cost of sending it to landfill from the customer, but diverting the waste to an illegal dump and keeping the cash

If you take the profit away, then the problem goes away.

The police should absolutely be involved in this but they're refusing. The Environment Agency is not a proper law-enforcement body:

After the Environment Agency was made aware of the incident, we took immediate action – issuing a cease and desist order in July. When the risk of further dumping emerged we subsequently secured a court order to close the site to prevent more waste from being illegally tipped

To criminals: Cease and desist!
Criminals: lol
To criminals: Here's a court order! Don't use the site!
Criminals: lol

Even if the police turn up, they'd just move the site to somewhere else.

GOVERNMENT should organise and fund UK waste disposal. It's starkly obvious that this is one of the principle areas that government is for.

 

[Deebs]

So, escalation in the waste disgrace:

Mountain of waste dumped in Oxfordshire field contains rubbish from councils

Evidence of waste from primary schools and local authorities in south-east England points to possible large-scale corruption, expert says

www.theguardian.com

And this is why this is happening:



If you take the profit away, then the problem goes away.

The police should absolutely be involved in this but they're refusing. The Environment Agency is not a proper law-enforcement body:



To criminals: Cease and desist!
Criminals: lol
To criminals: Here's a court order! Don't use the site!
Criminals: lol

Even if the police turn up, they'd just move the site to somewhere else.

GOVERNMENT should organise and fund UK waste disposal. It's starkly obvious that this is one of the principle areas that government is for.

I think that the councils have made it so annoying to get rid of waste which is not suitable for your bins. I have to book slots and/or pay for CFC collections when in the past I could just turn up at the local dump and drop all my shite off.

This drives people to store it and then pay someone to pick it up and once that happens they forget all about it. I cannot even dispose of flourescent tubes easily, got 3 to ger rid off but I have to book a fucking slot for a 30 sec dropoff. So now I will wait and hope they don't break because if they do then they will end up in my household waste which defeats the "ooh they have mercury dispose properly" warning. DON'T MAKE IT SO FUCKING CUMBERSOME TO DISPOSE OF THEN.

 

[Embattle]

As previously said, this idea having no charges will somehow result in no fly tipping is still utter bollocks.


The actual problem is the amount of crap people buy and then throw away, as previously stated, the dumps end up over capacity and bring in booking systems that annoy people.

 

[Deebs]

As previously said, this idea having no charges will somehow result in no fly tipping is still utter bollocks.


The actual problem is the amount of crap people buy and then throw away, as previously stated, the dumps end up over capacity and bring in booking systems that annoy people.

I don't have to pay for most of my rubbish but filling out webforms, giving car reg, turning up in a 30 min slot window is a deterrent. This makes the pikeys a more attractive deal who will come to me and hoover up the crap. Then it is not my problem. Make it easy like it was years ago, ie. load up car, drive to tip, empty car. Go home.

 

[Scouse]

As previously said, this idea having no charges will somehow result in no fly tipping is still utter bollocks.

In evidence to the Lords inquiry it was revealed how criminals exploit the landfill tax of £124 a tonne to dispose of rubbish.

Donald Macphail, the chief operating officer of Veolia Environmental Services, said: “For an artic lorry full of waste you are talking £2,500, which would be a disposal charge. If you can find somewhere to leave that parked or deposit it on someone’s land, you could do three or four loads and make a fortune. You would only have to do that four or five times a year and be very well-off.

“That is what attracts people … there is so much money in it.”

I'm so glad you're in no sort of governance role

 

[Gwadien]

I don't have to pay for most of my rubbish but filling out webforms, giving car reg, turning up in a 30 min slot window is a deterrent. This makes the pikeys a more attractive deal who will come to me and hoover up the crap. Then it is not my problem. Make it easy like it was years ago, ie. load up car, drive to tip, empty car. Go home.

That sounds like heaven, rather than queuing up for an hour at mine...

 

[Scouse]

I don't have to pay for most of my rubbish but filling out webforms, giving car reg, turning up in a 30 min slot window is a deterrent. This makes the pikeys a more attractive deal who will come to me and hoover up the crap. Then it is not my problem. Make it easy like it was years ago, ie. load up car, drive to tip, empty car. Go home.

The actual problem is the amount of crap people buy and then throw away, as previously stated, the dumps end up over capacity and bring in booking systems that annoy people.

This is an industrial scale of fly tipping. You get rid of this you get rid of 90% of the problem.

It's not the fucking booking systems. Whilst annoying it's not making this sort of shit happen. It's not making builders fly-tip their waste. It's the money.

 

[Scouse]

That sounds like heaven, rather than queuing up for an hour at mine...

It's fucking annoying. I'd much rather have to queue for a bit. (Or, do what clever people do - take shit to the tip at times when not every fucker is taking stuff to the tip).

 

[Raven]

They put one of those bullshit booking systems in at our tip, at the start of November. I drive past it most mornings. Shit all over the place on the road up to it now. They are going to have to employ people to tidy up all the fly tipping.

It's idiotic, people who live near one, as in less than a mile, can no longer use it, because they are in North Northampton.

 

[Embattle]

I don't have to pay for most of my rubbish but filling out webforms, giving car reg, turning up in a 30 min slot window is a deterrent. This makes the pikeys a more attractive deal who will come to me and hoover up the crap. Then it is not my problem. Make it easy like it was years ago, ie. load up car, drive to tip, empty car. Go home.

That still won't stop fly tipping, no matter what the fantasists Scouse thinks.

 

[Jupitus]

I think that the councils have made it so annoying to get rid of waste which is not suitable for your bins. I have to book slots and/or pay for CFC collections when in the past I could just turn up at the local dump and drop all my shite off.

This drives people to store it and then pay someone to pick it up and once that happens they forget all about it. I cannot even dispose of flourescent tubes easily, got 3 to ger rid off but I have to book a fucking slot for a 30 sec dropoff. So now I will wait and hope they don't break because if they do then they will end up in my household waste which defeats the "ooh they have mercury dispose properly" warning. DON'T MAKE IT SO FUCKING CUMBERSOME TO DISPOSE OF THEN.

Just spotted a B and Q in Lincoln accept flu tubes and other bulbs for recycling pal...

 

[Embattle]

Well, there goes another:

Iqbal Mohamed becomes second MP to quit Your Party

Mohamed says decision to leave was after ‘many false allegations and smears’ against him and others

www.theguardian.com

 

[Raven]

Complete waste of everyone's time and attention, a bunch of oddball useless people.

 

[Scouse]

Pension savings tax coming in this week.

Working hard and want to look after your future so you're not so dependent on the state? We'll tax you both ends of it.

Want to not work and have loads of kids tho? More money coming your way.