1.88b - Animist pve nerf and rvr love

[Everz]

So ya think it was fair pretty much 1-3 animists can stall/kill a whole zerg cos they can cast tons n tons of pets? IMO less shrooms able to cast is a good one..

IMO another change id LOVE to see is that once caster dies.. ALLL pets die (that includes theurgs also)

2 pbs can hold a keep stairs.. your point?

 

[[HB]Jpeg]

2 pbs can hold a keep stairs.. your point?

Once u kill 2pb dmge stops once u kill a animist u still got tons of shrooms to kill 1 at a time and pbae cant stand at a gate door in full melee/nuke view and live

if u really think pb is just as effective at killin/stalling sieges than shrooms then u r crazy.

 

[GReaper]

Except that the lifetap is energy damage..............

Ooops. I'm officially a noob.

 

[Ihasof]

idd ;/

You're an idiot mater.

 

[noaim]

Notes ain't finished yet, so far i like the changes, to counterbalance the huge shroom nerf (even tho the casted root > bomber root) they should really give bombers same range as theurg pets.
If they end up like that am happy with the changes.

Lol yes ofc Should they chainstun too?

 

[Everz]

Once u kill 2pb dmge stops once u kill a animist u still got tons of shrooms to kill 1 at a time and pbae cant stand at a gate door in full melee/nuke view and live

if u really think pb is just as effective at killin/stalling sieges than shrooms then u r crazy.

1 pb > shroom patch
monster rez > shroom patch
any ae dmg > shroom patch
mez > shroom patch

need i state more?

 

[Nate]

Once u kill 2pb dmge stops once u kill a animist u still got tons of shrooms to kill 1 at a time and pbae cant stand at a gate door in full melee/nuke view and live

if u really think pb is just as effective at killin/stalling sieges than shrooms then u r crazy.

Once you have a alb dead you have a monster once you have a monster you have no more shrooms to worry about.

 

[Muylaetrix]

there are 3 sorts of monsters

a) monsters that take shitloads of damage to kill but do little more than interupt (armsmen are a good example)

b) monsters that do shitloads of damage but go down in a few nukes (high RR wizards area a good example)

c) crap monsters. they interupt, they are harder to kill than average chars, they are not the problem.

monster rezz is so dependent upon the person being rezzed, the persons groups ability to keep the monster alive while it is a monster, the players ability to know just what he can do as a monster.

monster is `sometimes` OP, i agree. but just like any other form of AE damage, it`s not that usefull in open field and more and more usefull the more space is limited in the area where one fights.

 

[Golena]

Look at a creeping spec animist in this light, 5 shrooms max, and a 159.9 delve baseline nuke, or a low specced 164 delve baseline lifetap that will eat your power.

I've every confidence that there will be more love for Animists in the coming patches. Before you give them love however you have to make them at least semi-balanced in a keep situation.

One PB or mezzer might be able to neutralise a shroom field easily, but if the animist knows what he's doing he's going to need MOC and a good group to keep him alive while he gets that spell that kills them off. If you've ever tried to get to the middle of a 100 shroom field as a PB class then you'll realise it's not quite that easy! Especially when there's 30 hibs stood in it.

It's not the damage of the shrooms that's the issue it's that you can have 100 interupting pets placed up there. Moan about theurg pets all you want.. If you let the theurg cast 30 pets at you then it's your own fault. The animist has them nicely there when you turn up. It's a HUGE difference. 5 static pets is still better siege defence than most solo classes possess.

 

[eble@work]

I've every confidence that there will be more love for Animists in the coming patches. Before you give them love however you have to make them at least semi-balanced in a keep situation.

One PB or mezzer might be able to neutralise a shroom field easily, but if the animist knows what he's doing he's going to need MOC and a good group to keep him alive while he gets that spell that kills them off. If you've ever tried to get to the middle of a 100 shroom field as a PB class then you'll realise it's not quite that easy! Especially when there's 30 hibs stood in it.

It's not the damage of the shrooms that's the issue it's that you can have 100 interupting pets placed up there. Moan about theurg pets all you want.. If you let the theurg cast 30 pets at you then it's your own fault. The animist has them nicely there when you turn up. It's a HUGE difference. 5 static pets is still better siege defence than most solo classes possess.

Last patch actually took ani pets down to 30 in a 1500 unit area, this just seems over the top if they don't give them a big boost elsewhere.

5 pets mez'd pb'd, hardly a keep defence now is it.

Eble

 

[Golena]

Last patch actually took ani pets down to 30 in a 1500 unit area, this just seems over the top if they don't give them a big boost elsewhere.

5 pets mez'd pb'd, hardly a keep defence now is it.

Eble

I think you've summed up the problem there perfectly.
There seems to be an inbuilt belief that an animist should be able to hold a keep solo by themselves.

The animist pets shouldn't be the keep defence. They should be part of a keep defence involving actual people playing their characters, not sitting downstairs afk with their shroomz button wedged down. It's not anything to do with the animist being a bad or a good defence class. It's just that people have become way too used to the old easy mode way of doing stuff to look objectively at it. If you created the animist now in it's middle nerf form people would scream blue murder about it being overpowered, and everyone would agree. It's just that people have sort of "got used to it" that it seems reasonable in the slightest.

The shrooms can easily be placed at a location in a keep where mezzing them isn't easy. They won't insta kill anymore maybe, but I can't see that as a bad thing, and that's coming from someone who's playing hib atm.

 

[[HB]Jpeg]

1 pb > shroom patch
monster rez > shroom patch
any ae dmg > shroom patch
mez > shroom patch

need i state more?

kill 1pb = no more dmge
ae dmge = cant hit what u cant see/have los
mezz = as above

kill one shroom!! = you still atm for 20-30 nuking you !

im not refering to MR , yes its strong.. but to think that one pb.. one ae dmge or mez is better in a keep siege than a animist IMO is obsurd. u hit a PB.. he is interupted.. u ever tried interupting loads of shrooms? u be dead by time 1st shroom is dead (as we know most animists drop shrooms where u gonan die trying kill em.. or u cant even see em due to LOS.)

example in side of door of keep once down.. to kill shrooms u have to enter the keep to have your los.. before u got that LOS the shrooms are gonna kill ya... even now.. 5 shrooms doing 100-200 dmge is 1k+ every cple seconds. u kill one shroom u down to 800+ every cple seconds.u simply cant liv long eough to kill em.. meanwhile the Animist is sat inside keep safely regen to cast more shrooms in a non los safe place to get his rps and majorly slow enemys down.

animists are by far and away the best siege defence class IMO (as they are now) yes the shrooms nerfs hit em hard.. but they shouldnt be allowed to do what they do in a siege. hence imo a valid nerf.

and YES the pets should die once the caster does.. that goes for ANY pets wether it be mid alb or hib..

 

[OohhoO]

Yeah like...
you see so many anis in RvR these days
they're all over the place like sorcs & infs!
must be HUGE fun to RvR with
/sarcasm off

 

[kindrid]

Nerf teurg pet spam to 1.5k and do what ever you want to animists , 5 ice pet limit and 30 pets overall cap.

 

[Gahn]

Are you jokeing? So you say it would be well balanced to make the Animist the onely class that can chain DD at boltrange? And no, dont say: "So, the Thergs can!". Not the same thing, there pets can be targeted and easy killed with AE. The lvl 50 LT is ok, they should have it as everyone else.

No am not joking, since they are a non traditional caster they must give em back something different (since it's now the 3rd heavy nerf they give away to the class).
I would say they should ALSO lower the casting time of the Shrooms spell.

True, if you are Air speced.

Like 90% of RvR specced Theurgs are?

 

[Reno]

there are 3 sorts of monsters

a) monsters that take shitloads of damage to kill but do little more than interupt (armsmen are a good example)

b) monsters that do shitloads of damage but go down in a few nukes (high RR wizards area a good example)

c) crap monsters. they interupt, they are harder to kill than average chars, they are not the problem.

monster rezz is so dependent upon the person being rezzed, the persons groups ability to keep the monster alive while it is a monster, the players ability to know just what he can do as a monster.

monster is `sometimes` OP, i agree. but just like any other form of AE damage, it`s not that usefull in open field and more and more usefull the more space is limited in the area where one fights.

Even the 1st monster will drop a dot on you that will tick for about 100-125 per tick to a resistless target. That means that a whole stack will the done for in 3 ticks or less ( massive crits on caster monster dot will 1 shot it), if they don't receive a grp heal.

Danita

 

[RS|Phil]

So ya think it was fair pretty much 1-3 animists can stall/kill a whole zerg cos they can cast tons n tons of pets? IMO less shrooms able to cast is a good one..

IMO another change id LOVE to see is that once caster dies.. ALLL pets die (that includes theurgs also)

Wow, there goes my reputation as one of the few FH people who's totally impartial and objective!


Or not.

Where did I say any of that? Where did I say it was fair? Where did I say I thought 1-3 Animists being able to wipe a whole zerg is right? I hate Animists, I do, I said they're broken - or were anyway - and have said the same thing for years.

If you read what I put - which you've obviously not done I'm afraid - then you'll see that I said the change was fair when you look at it from the pet spam point of view, but entirely unfair in the compensation they've been given.


It's an interestng change when you look at it purely from their pet spam point of view. Animists will now have to think a bit more about what shrooms to place where, which is a nice thing, but I really hope for the sake of people who play Animists as their main that they're going to get something in return to make the pill a bit less bitter to swallow.

It's also a shame they couldn't just apply these changes to RvR and not to PvE for the sake of epic level raiding. Ironically, Hib who once found big raids the easiest of all realms may now find it hardest!

 

[kindrid]

erm i kinda new to animist but did fnf turrent needed a nerf to 5 ?

 

[OohhoO]

Could compensate by giving baseline stun like the rest of Hib casters - That would be fun

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Or maybe they won't get any compensation, 'cause it was a 'fix'.

 

[RS|Phil]

erm i kinda new to animist but did fnf turrent needed a nerf to 5 ?

Kind of. It's a typical Mythic slap-dash fix though. They dropped the max pets (from all animists in area) to 30 in a 1500 spherical radius, then dropped them to 5 per animist in the space of a couple of patches.

What they should have done is fix the single line of sight check, wait a month and see the response, THEN drop the pets to 30, and wait a month, THEN drop the pets to 5 if needed.

The biggest problem is the Line Of Sight check, and it's still not even fixed. Though, tbh, it doesnt need it now they can only have 5. I wouldn't be shocked if they now decide due to the reduced strength of the animist they don't need to look at the LoS code

Or maybe they won't get any compensation, 'cause it was a 'fix'.

I think that's unlikely considering the way they nerfed the Supp line in BD by making it seem less powerful than the other lines by making the other lines crazy. We can hope, but historically Mythic don't do fixes like that.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think they're trying to turn the animist into less of a "drop 15 shrooms and cheese things" class and more of a real one...

I'd be very surprised if 1.88b is the last of the animist changes.

 

[Urgat]

Someone did raise an interesting point further up...

If animists are to be limited to spawning a max of 5 pets...

why shouldnt the other pet spam class take the same penalty? (theurgists)

isn't that fair?

thoughts?

 

[RS|Phil]

Someone did raise an interesting point further up...

If animists are to be limited to spawning a max of 5 pets...

why shouldnt the other pet spam class take the same penalty? (theurgists)

isn't that fair?

thoughts?

Perhaps SOME limit but theurg pets aren't completely FnF as they can't re-target. You'd have to have the limit to around 20-30 but then it seems pointless, but to reduce them any more would completely wreck the class. Plius you'd have to give Earth spec theurgs a spec nuke to compensate too.

Means a class rebuild really.

 

[Azathrim]

Perhaps SOME limit but theurg pets aren't completely FnF as they can't re-target. You'd have to have the limit to around 20-30 but then it seems pointless, but to reduce them any more would completely wreck the class. Plius you'd have to give Earth spec theurgs a spec nuke to compensate too.

Means a class rebuild really.

Why?

They could just limit it to 5 theurgist pets on the same target per caster.
I have only very rarely seen more than 5 theurgist pets in RvR on the same target, so it wouldn't change one bit there.

Ofcourse, it would mean wrecking theurgists for easy PvE farming ... just like animists. So, that would be fair.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Why?

They could just limit it to 5 theurgist pets on the same target per caster.
I have only very rarely seen more than 5 theurgist pets in RvR on the same target, so it wouldn't change one bit there.

Ofcourse, it would mean wrecking theurgists for easy PvE farming ... just like animists. So, that would be fair.

WAH I GOT NERFED NERF EVERYONE ELSE! not a good balance argument

I don't see theurg pets destroying keep siege RvR
(now you could argue that monster ress does... not convinced on that one yet but you could argue it)


Personally I'd say theurg pets are more like DoT bombers than FnF shrooms...

 

[GReaper]

Making Animists more similar to Theurgists would've been a better solution.

A fire and forget turret which only attacks the player you've targeted whilst casting. No ground target needed, the turret would automatically be placed a few hundred units away from the target. Faster casting speed to compensate as well (3.0s or so).

 

[Farhach]

Fair enough if they take away some shrooms from us in RvR (shrooms can be a pain in the sh'tter when placed by one who knows where and when), but they should leave us untouched as far as it goes for PvE. I guess its back the good old days with chanter+menta combo again then.

Two things they should do to even this out a bit though, is to lower castspeed of the pets, and lower their powercost. I could imagine a power percentage, kinda like the theurgs got.
Seeing our pets dont move (but players do), and with limited number of pets to cast, we will have to move the clump to where the people are if we want to use them at all. So faster castspeed and powercost would be a suitable trade-off for having our number of pets lowered.

Im looking forward to be able to nuke more though, as all of the power wont go into shrooms that just dies anyways

 

[Azathrim]

WAH I GOT NERFED NERF EVERYONE ELSE! not a good balance argument

I don't see theurg pets destroying keep siege RvR

For your information, I am not as much a hib as an alb.

And the matter of fact is, that hibernia lost their pet spam in this patch. That's an issue that needs to be balanced across the realms (yes, mid too). One way is to reduce theurgists to the same level as hibernia. Another is ofcourse, to improve the pet spam abilities of hib.

(now you could argue that monster ress does... not convinced on that one yet but you could argue it)

Only the few die-hard albs like yourself haven't realized that Monster Rezz is up for a major "tweak" one of these patches. That's the most overpowered ability in keep siege (yes, more so than shrooms). It's a wonder (or the fact its on an alb class) that it havent been removed yet. Besides it's beyond the scope of this discussion. Hopefully we can discuss it in the 1.88c thread.

 

[Rhana]

I play heretic on Clasic and I tell you this: 8 times out of 10, I make a monster and it gets delt with in sec's. People have learned how to deal with them so not so powerfull tool anymore.