1.88b - Animist pve nerf and rvr love

[Gahn]

I play heretic on Clasic and I tell you this: 8 times out of 10, I make a monster and it gets delt with in sec's. People have learned how to deal with them so not so powerfull tool anymore.

I tell u this, i played animist in siege, and ppl who knows what to do don't die to em like lemmings. So?

 

[Hawkwind]

2 pbs can hold a keep stairs.. your point?

You have to be active for one. Ani can just spam pets and sit for a while.

Although I think this should have been RvR only. Let have all they want for PvE's.

 

[Gamah]

You're an idiot mater.

You're a banned "mater"

 

[Rhana]

I tell u this, i played animist in siege, and ppl who knows what to do don't die to em like lemmings. So?

ok, I take it you arent one of the guys that put your stack of mushies in the open where they do good targets for AE's? Well, would explane why people dont die on them like lemmings but that would be insulting to say, wouldnt it?

Fare enough, people who know how to deal with them: Stays away/starts BAoD/Fana and keep there healers ready with DI's.

I dont care mutch about the mushies, its just plane stupid with a couple of 100 mushies in the same spot. To compare that with a couple (at best) of monsters is plane stupid.

 

[Gahn]

ok, I take it you arent one of the guys that put your stack of mushies in the open where they do good targets for AE's? Well, would explane why people dont die on them like lemmings but that would be insulting to say, wouldnt it?

Fare enough, people who know how to deal with them: Stays away/starts BAoD/Fana and keep there healers ready with DI's.

I dont care mutch about the mushies, its just plane stupid with a couple of 100 mushies in the same spot. To compare that with a couple (at best) of monsters is plane stupid.

That's another history and ofc if u monster rezz the wrong ones and ppl ain't willing to their job it doesn't cause havoc, but get up 3-4 mage types with MoM and WP and send em in (with ppl backing up the thing ofc) and it's perma interrupting everything in 5000 radius, pretty worse than a stack of shrooms (which most anis botted not even bother not to stack in the same place -.-)

 

[Azathrim]

That's another history and ofc if u monster rezz the wrong ones and ppl ain't willing to their job it doesn't cause havoc, but get up 3-4 mage types with MoM and WP and send em in (with ppl backing up the thing ofc) and it's perma interrupting everything in 5000 radius, pretty worse than a stack of shrooms (which most anis botted not even bother not to stack in the same place -.-)

Excactly... it requires so little to take effective use of MR in those situations. 4-5 people using the ability in coordination can effectively ensure the alb zergs victory in any lord room rush. The thing is, there is no effective counter against it in a siege situation where AE flies around and it's near impossible to effectively target individuals. Hence you cannot mezz the monster. You cannot have shield tanks slam/grapple them, etc, etc. Without much effort, the Monster -will- be able to interrupt the entire lord room. Add in 2-3 more monsters with Mom/WP and you can kill the lord room. ... not to mention the alb zerg that soon rushes too.

 

[Megalodon]

What does the Mids think? Do they fear shrooms or monsters the most?

 

[Rhana]

That's another history and ofc if u monster rezz the wrong ones and ppl ain't willing to their job it doesn't cause havoc, but get up 3-4 mage types with MoM and WP and send em in (with ppl backing up the thing ofc) and it's perma interrupting everything in 5000 radius, pretty worse than a stack of shrooms (which most anis botted not even bother not to stack in the same place -.-)

Ok, lets make the lords room the arena of the event.

1. Lets say Albs is attacking hibs (that camps and mushies the lords room)

2. Someone needs to die in order to monster them. That is clear and simpel.

3. Will the "soft target" casters be the first to run up in the mushie-hell? Not likely if they have half a brain. Therefor, the first to die is most likely tanks, so that is the most possabel things you will have to work with as a heretic.

4. Where will the heretic need to be in order to monster they who has died? I say in the stairs or in the doorway to the lords room. And what will happend? Someone q-cast stun (and there the MoC whent that was his onely chanse to be abel to get 3 rezzes, as that is the numbers of rezzes I can do with full mana bar and MCL 2 charge on mace, done in the same time as he is perma nuced/hit/interupted). Next will be 2-5 casters hits MoC them self if needed and make the heretic the next corpse on the carpet.

My point is, you will have to be one luckey heretic indeed to get your senario... 3-4 casters WITH MoM and WP running about at lords... I wish... I truely does..

Edit: In this exsampel I was thinking 1 tic vs. 1 Ani. As the same amount of mushies on the same mana pool as I need for 3 monsters is farely enough to make that lordsroom a fungus-hell

 

[Rhana]

I just have to quote dialoge with a thane I know after he more or less insta died to shrooms:

Group member: "Didnt you see the shrooms?"
Thane: "But, it was onely three of them.."
Group: "....."
Group member: "Yes... Three STACKS of shrooms.."
Thane: "...."

 

[Cadelin]

I play heretic on Clasic and I tell you this: 8 times out of 10, I make a monster and it gets delt with in sec's. People have learned how to deal with them so not so powerfull tool anymore.

This is a silly argument. You have to learn to deal with something overpowered or you will die. Take Warlocks, when they were first introduced and did insane amounts of damage, you learnt to stun and kill them ASAP or you were going to die. Are you saying you want warlocks to be unerfed because people gank them?

What does the Mids think? Do they fear shrooms or monsters the most?

Mids dislike monster res most because monsters can move, shrooms can't. Its very rare for shrooms to be able to interupt support classes. But if a MR isn't dead within 5 seconds it will be interupting the support. You also have to remember that unlike hib which has stun on casters mid have stun on the healers so it is much harder to make sure all the MR are stunned. A tic might run out of power after 2 MR but a pac healer has 2 insta stuns on 10 minute timers. Trying to get a casted stun in with no QC in small spaces is almost impossible.

 

[Davejohnson]

just means verdant animists will become more popular for siege-rvr, los-less PB is not bad.

it does gimp the pve heavily tho, 5 tohitbonus for an animist, 15 for thane/valk, and ~90 for a theurg with a necro powertransferring.

sounds like its time for all realms to get the midgard 'storms' to the respective hybrid classes.

 

[Aerhisd]

I tell u this, i played animist in siege, and ppl who knows what to do don't die to em like lemmings. So?

I'm sorry but you are an extremely bad player. So I don't think you can make a comment.

 

[Cadelin]

sounds like its time for all realms to get the midgard 'storms' to the respective hybrid classes.

Heh, the day when people say mid has easy mode PvE. As far as I was aware though CoTS isn't as good as you indicate. I thought it only counted for group members and the number of bonus attackers depended on the mob level. For level 80+ mobs it counts as 15 but it does less for lower level mobs.

However if I was going to whine it would be at the spiritmasters. They will be able to charm a yellow con mob, ML9 it AND put a 40dps damage shield on it.

 

[Rhana]

This is a silly argument. You have to learn to deal with something overpowered or you will die. Take Warlocks, when they were first introduced and did insane amounts of damage, you learnt to stun and kill them ASAP or you were going to die. Are you saying you want warlocks to be unerfed because people gank them?

Lol, what did you get that from? What I said is more or less what you just said. You learn to deal with it, as people did with monsters, there for I found it silly to compare them with shroom fields in camp positions as lords room or towers.

I played Mid on prydwen under the WL's haydays and I didnt complane when they had there nerf, they needed it, they where unbalanced before it. So, lets keep to the subject, the next needed nerf - The Animists.

 

[atos]

Just give the bombers some hits like 50 or so/bombers and give em theurg range on em.

 

[Golena]

Lets ignore the PvE aspect of things for a moment. After all when the animist patch comes out you can just use bounty points to do all the PvE stuff anyway and the PvE farmer types can just switch to focus pulling stuff.

I do find it interesting that people defending animists keep saying.. you can just mezz the shrooms. Yet their argument against monsters is always you can't mezz them because of all the AOE flying about.
The big thing is that the monsters can run to your support while the shrooms are stationary so it's slightly easier to keep your support away from it. I do still feel that monsters should be more powerful simply because the effort in getting a monster army up and moving is much greater than simply shrooming up.

I do think that if they either make the monsters interupt but do no damage (or much less damage) or do lots of damage but not interupt then it will be fairly balanced. That way they will still be useful in assisting with seiges, but not completely dominate them.

I'd rather have monsters when attaking a keep and animists when defending, so comparing the 2 straight out is slightly misleading.. It's also worth keeping in mind that the animist gets the realm points for shrooming up, but the tic doesn't get the realm points for the monster he created.

 

[Davejohnson]

Heh, the day when people say mid has easy mode PvE. As far as I was aware though CoTS isn't as good as you indicate. I thought it only counted for group members and the number of bonus attackers depended on the mob level. For level 80+ mobs it counts as 15 but it does less for lower level mobs.

not sure about you, but the average group doesnt need help with killing red mobs t.t

they do need help with killing Talos for example, and there the 15-30 bonusattackers makes a huge difference.

 

[eble@work]

ok, I take it you arent one of the guys that put your stack of mushies in the open where they do good targets for AE's? Well, would explane why people dont die on them like lemmings but that would be insulting to say, wouldnt it?

Fare enough, people who know how to deal with them: Stays away/starts BAoD/Fana and keep there healers ready with DI's.

I dont care mutch about the mushies, its just plane stupid with a couple of 100 mushies in the same spot. To compare that with a couple (at best) of monsters is plane stupid.

More bullshit can't have 100's of mushrooms in an area as it stands now, learn the game then comment.

 

[Rhana]

More bullshit can't have 100's of mushrooms in an area as it stands now, learn the game then comment.

lol, are you a fool or just making a brave atempt to look like one?

"as it stands now" .... You are so clueless that you where thinking I talked about that? Tell me, if you wants to get a grip if a nerf is needed or not, you will have to put it in a perspective of how it was before. So, lets see if you are a true fool or just puting on an act - comment pleas.

 

[Cadelin]

Lol, what did you get that from? What I said is more or less what you just said. You learn to deal with it, as people did with monsters, there for I found it silly to compare them with shroom fields in camp positions as lords room or towers.

I got it from you:

I play heretic on Clasic and I tell you this: 8 times out of 10, I make a monster and it gets delt with in sec's. People have learned how to deal with them so not so powerfull tool anymore.

You said something is not overpowered because people learn to deal with it. I said things can still be overpowered even if you learn to deal with it. Very different things.

Also shroom spamming and monster res are really only good in lord room battles. Everwhere else you can avoid them or cc them too easily. Thats why there are being compared. Shroomers have taken a nerf but the more powerful MR hasn't yet.

 

[Cadelin]

not sure about you, but the average group doesnt need help with killing red mobs t.t

they do need help with killing Talos for example, and there the 15-30 bonusattackers makes a huge difference.

Where did I say the average group needed help killing red cons? Oh, I didn't, there are plenty of mobs that are below lvl 80 but still purp con.

I also didn't say CoTS was useless just not as useful as some may think. Even after this nerf a shroomer would still be more useful than a CoTS tank in many situations. Yes Talos is an exception where CoTS will be better than shrooms but that is because that encounter is a teathered mob, with no adds.

 

[Rhana]

You said something is not overpowered because people learn to deal with it. I said things can still be overpowered even if you learn to deal with it. Very different things.

Also shroom spamming and monster res are really only good in lord room battles. Everwhere else you can avoid them or cc them too easily. Thats why there are being compared. Shroomers have taken a nerf but the more powerful MR hasn't yet.

Oh, come on! You pulls WL's into a discussion about Animists and heretics (Animists to be core subject, tic brought in for some whine perpose)

Is something realy ower powered if people knows how to handel it? I say no, it isnt ower powered if there addvantage is nullified by counter actions.

"Everwhere else you can avoid them or cc them too easily. " Funny, I can use the same argument for monsters. The difference is that shrooms generate rps for there controller (true, mr does too, but not if he is ress sick allready or very littel if low rr). with the shrooms you can allso do a calculations how mutch mana you wants to spend, in order to do other things instead (YES, its true, the animist dont NEED to spam there entire bar on pet, they can use a bunch of tanglers to cc with and use bombers/LT to kill off things). Monsters will allways take a heave chunk out of your mana. And another reason why mr isnt more powerfull then shrooms, you need to have someone dead first, and that meens that more likely resorses from the group is allready spent in order for this toon not to die in the first place. A problem you dont have with the Animist.

 

[Azathrim]

Rhana, you are right. Shrooms are overpowered for siege in the current form.

That is why they get nerfed.

Just like MR will too, because it's even more overpowered in siege than shrooms are. See the point? They will both be nerfed. Wait and see.

 

[Gamah]

Rhana, you are right. Shrooms are overpowered for siege in the current form.

That is why they get nerfed.

Just like MR will too, because it's even more overpowered in siege than shrooms are. See the point? They will both be nerfed. Wait and see.

Music love inc 1.83c I can feel it!

 

[Gahn]

Ok, lets make the lords room the arena of the event.

1. Lets say Albs is attacking hibs (that camps and mushies the lords room)

2. Someone needs to die in order to monster them. That is clear and simpel.

3. Will the "soft target" casters be the first to run up in the mushie-hell? Not likely if they have half a brain. Therefor, the first to die is most likely tanks, so that is the most possabel things you will have to work with as a heretic.

Y the fuck not? If it is to win the situation u SEND the soft targets to die 1st.

4. Where will the heretic need to be in order to monster they who has died? I say in the stairs or in the doorway to the lords room. And what will happend? Someone q-cast stun (and there the MoC whent that was his onely chanse to be abel to get 3 rezzes, as that is the numbers of rezzes I can do with full mana bar and MCL 2 charge on mace, done in the same time as he is perma nuced/hit/interupted). Next will be 2-5 casters hits MoC them self if needed and make the heretic the next corpse on the carpet.

Some1 quick cast stun from inside the Lord Room? Don't rly think so, tipically the Shrooms are stacked right behind the corner inside the Lord Room, u just need to put the face inside to get owned. Call a damn cleric with an insta, target [insert random Alb name], rezz and sprint down.
But what one can do? Albs can't even time for cooking if i have to hear u.

My point is, you will have to be one luckey heretic indeed to get your senario... 3-4 casters WITH MoM and WP running about at lords... I wish... I truely does..

I honestly dunno how is the Classic Cluster but at least on Dyvet almost every fucking moron going to a siege is an rr11 di botted Sorc/Wizzie. So plenty to rezz from.

Edit: In this exsampel I was thinking 1 tic vs. 1 Ani. As the same amount of mushies on the same mana pool as I need for 3 monsters is farely enough to make that lordsroom a fungus-hell

1 vs 1 in a siege? Oks. Imo u fail to get the general view.

 

[Cadelin]

"Everwhere else you can avoid them or cc them too easily. " Funny, I can use the same argument for monsters. The difference is that shrooms generate rps for there controller (true, mr does too, but not if he is ress sick allready or very littel if low rr). with the shrooms you can allso do a calculations how mutch mana you wants to spend, in order to do other things instead (YES, its true, the animist dont NEED to spam there entire bar on pet, they can use a bunch of tanglers to cc with and use bombers/LT to kill off things). Monsters will allways take a heave chunk out of your mana. And another reason why mr isnt more powerfull then shrooms, you need to have someone dead first, and that meens that more likely resorses from the group is allready spent in order for this toon not to die in the first place. A problem you dont have with the Animist.

Yes you can use that argument but there is a counter to it. Most shrooms will die with 1-2 ae nukes. Most MR will not and MR if grouped can also be healed (spread healed) more easily.

It also slightly worrying that you can't seem to find any dead albs in keep situations. If there are no dead albs you probably outnumber the enemy at least 4 to 1. You don't need MR to win in that situation.

And stop complaining about power usage. Most people play on a ToA server with FoPs, JS and EP etc. There are plenty of ways of getting power back that mean you can be constantly sending MR in.

 

[Rhana]

Sigh.. did you realy missed the point or what?

Y the fuck not? If it is to win the situation u SEND the soft targets to die 1st.

Yes, and this is the onely point that I seriously can agree with you and have done so from time to time. It dosent make him more easy MR:ed dough.. Realy just works in towers realy.

Some1 quick cast stun from inside the Lord Room? Don't rly think so, tipically the Shrooms are stacked right behind the corner inside the Lord Room, u just need to put the face inside to get owned. Call a damn cleric with an insta, target [insert random Alb name], rezz and sprint down.
But what one can do? Albs can't even time for cooking if i have to hear u.

So, you dont think a hib caster will press 1. q-cast 2. Stun 3. nuce x multidue untill the tic is dead, even less that a couple will? .... Are we playing the same game? "u just need to put the face inside to get owned." And this is exactly what Im saying, thanks to clear my own statements and prove my point!

I honestly dunno how is the Classic Cluster but at least on Dyvet almost every fucking moron going to a siege is an rr11 di botted Sorc/Wizzie. So plenty to rezz from.

Sure there is one or another with a DI bot and sure you can find a cleric or tic with a pr... But that wasnt what it was all about, wasnt it? It was about making a monster in a very hard to do enviroment (the stairs up to lords room or in the doorway to the lords room)

1 vs 1 in a siege? Oks. Imo u fail to get the general view.

Ok, I take it very basic and be sure to read slowly so you dont miss anything. No, there is not a 1 vs 1 siege... I gues there more or less a zerg on bouth side, the onely thing I did, in the name of easy compareing, was to scale down to 1 vs. 1 of the named classes - Get it?

 

[Rhana]

Yes you can use that argument but there is a counter to it. Most shrooms will die with 1-2 ae nukes. Most MR will not and MR if grouped can also be healed (spread healed) more easily.

It also slightly worrying that you can't seem to find any dead albs in keep situations. If there are no dead albs you probably outnumber the enemy at least 4 to 1. You don't need MR to win in that situation.

And stop complaining about power usage. Most people play on a ToA server with FoPs, JS and EP etc. There are plenty of ways of getting power back that mean you can be constantly sending MR in.

I understand that you havent red it all through properly. The problem isnt to find any one to rezz, its the rezzing in it self as people dosent tend to fall down of old age or hart failure on the floor under the lords room. They dies with the hibs bad breath in there face - in there line of sight. And thats where the problem with the rezzing comes.

Well, I play on classic (thanks god) so no fops ect. But for "most people" I say the same goes for the Animists that is shrooming up. They will allso have plenty of power back for more shrooms.

 

[Azathrim]

Rhana, we have realized you don't have a clue. But let me ask nonetheless: Have you actually played against MR?

 

[Rhana]

Rhana, we have realized you don't have a clue. But let me ask nonetheless: Have you actually played against MR?

Hehe, so you have realized that? lol, ok.
Yes, I have played against it, playing RM on prydwen. And yes, its a pain in the arse but that is what is there for - Oh, I played agains shrooms there too, now that I come to think about it... Yeah... MR did hurt... shroom x S where S=Silly amount of Shroom, kills.

Cut the BS, there is a reason why you runs into a shroom trap times and times again when playing against hibs, the shroom spam works and does it very well, its a rp farm tool and thats why you gets so agitated about it, you are about to lose it.

Ohh, I gues EA/Mythic is clueless too as they wants it done.. and that leaves you as the onely person with more then half a brain ... Lovely dream, realy is.. but.. just a dream... Sorry.

But why do you ask, you think I dont have a clue anyway (or its easier to write that then give me a proper answer)?