1.83c: Healer, Savage, Wizard and Paladin love!

[scarloc]

Any Wizard worth his salt will not spec less then 50 Fire or Ice, leaving 20 for Earth and thus NS. NS at that level is utter rubbish, exactly like your contention that this fixes the Class.

Think before you post next time...

Semifixed? I said it was BAD nearsight. Read my post first, I didnt say the nearsight was good OR that wiz was totally fixed.

 

[Jobbegea]

won't stack i think.
its more a love for ppl without buffbot in pve or just classic servers

 

[liloe]

I hope the Paladin Str buff does stack with current Cleric buffs, or there's absolutely no point whatsoever in having it.

What's the point in champs having a self s/c buff then? I think it should stack with the druid s/c buff so that champs can get 500str, that would be nice.


Oh and yes, the wizard changes are utter bollox with the spec DD delivering a heat debuff at the same time. The arguments were already brought there. Every other DD+debuff is on the baseline damage table, but hey, that is the 3rd spell that breaks the rules now (lifetap, RC baseline DD)

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

FFS - Just read VN Boards. It doesn't stack.

Well that was a completely pointless addition to the Paladin line, thanks Mythic.

This was supposed to address the low Paladin WS and address the fact that Str is our tertiary raising stat (should be secondary at least IMHO).

Oh well...

 

[Zebolt]

Any Wizard worth his salt will not spec less then 50 Fire or Ice, leaving 20 for Earth and thus NS. NS at that level is utter rubbish, exactly like your contention that this fixes the Class.

Kinda funny that you mention it. Cuz' the NS is exactly what ppl have been saying is making Dark RM so much better than Fire Wiz... But now when wizards get it too, it sucks

compared to runies they definately did.

Really? A fire Wiz got everything a dark RM has now when everyone got speed buff for 1p except the lowbie NS but they also got a bolt in their spec line. Soon they get the lowbie NS as RM has, they got the speed buff, they got a spec bolt which RM doesn't have. Yeah lets make their spec nuke superior aswell, cuz' they're worse than RM.. I just fail to see that statement.

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

What's the point in champs having a self s/c buff then? I think it should stack with the druid s/c buff so that champs can get 500str, that would be nice.

Champions have had that for ever. The game's changed and Mythic know that we all use BBs on ToA servers. To give a Class a non-stacking buff these days is utterly pointless unless it's massively better then the current Cleric provided one, and this one is less.

Oh and yes, the wizard changes are utter bollox with the spec DD delivering a heat debuff at the same time. The arguments were already brought there. Every other DD+debuff is on the baseline damage table, but hey, that is the 3rd spell that breaks the rules now (lifetap, RC baseline DD)

It's not bollocks at all, it's very good. The Wizard Class was always supposed to be the primary damage Class, that's why it's never had any utility. In recent years, the other casting Classes have caught up and in terms of pure DPS, overtaken it easily.

This merely readdresses the balance.

In terms if utility, the Class still has none. Please don't throw NS into the fray, because no-one in their right mind will sacrifice capped damage for a crappy NS.

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

Kinda funny that you mention it. Cuz' the NS is exactly what ppl have been saying is making Dark RM so much better than Fire Wiz... But now when wizards get it too, it sucks

The Classes are hardly the same. A RM gets Instant Dex Debuff, Confusion, Bladeturn and Speed! I don't see that kind of utility on a Wizard! You can also spec the next highest tier NS over a Wizard who has to lose significant DPS just to match that while having none of the RM's utility.

 

[Deld]

Finally Wizard love, time to renew!

 

[Andrilyn]

If I may believe some US players the pally self str thing in the chant line isn't a duration buff but a plain chant (so the entire group gets it) and stacks with the Cleric buffs, so the entire group gets +55 str.
Rather OP if you ask me, tanks with 450+ str when the chant is on is ouch.

 

[Serdan]

If I may believe some US players the pally self str thing in the chant line isn't a duration buff but a plain chant (so the entire group gets it) and stacks with the Cleric buffs, so the entire group gets +55 str.
Rather OP if you ask me, tanks with 450+ str when the chant is on is ouch.

Doh, have you read patch notes at all? :

A new Self only Strength buff has been granted to Paladins in their Chant line in the following manner:

3: Righteous Strength +17 Strength, 20 minute duration, 3 power

 

[Zebolt]

The Classes are hardly the same. A RM gets Instant Dex Debuff, Confusion, Bladeturn and Speed! I don't see that kind of utility on a Wizard! You can also spec the next highest tier NS over a Wizard who has to lose significant DPS just to match that while having none of the RM's utility.

You're saying Wizards don't get bladeturn? If you don't know anything about the class you shouldn't really post about it :> And they got speed, buy a horse for 1p and there you go. And a RM can spec the next highest NS without losing dps? Yeah so you're saying if I spec 32 supp to get the next highest NS Im not gonna lose my lvl 47 dark spec nuke? How's your math? xD

Ok so now when you can't whine on NS anymore you're moving over to whine at the lowbie confusion instead? Yeah, cuz' that's so much better than a 1200 dmg bolt

 

[Thorondorito]

Another example of Mythic's idea of balance

 

[Serdan]

You're saying Wizards don't get bladeturn? If you don't know anything about the class you shouldn't really post about it :> And they got speed, buy a horse for 1p and there you go. And a RM can spec the next highest NS without losing dps? Yeah so you're saying if I spec 32 supp to get the next highest NS Im not gonna lose my lvl 47 dark spec nuke? How's your math? xD

Ok so now when you can't whine on NS anymore you're moving over to whine at the lowbie confusion instead? Yeah, cuz' that's so much better than a 1200 dmg bolt

Oh, please, are you saying that Wizards are equal in utility to Runemasters now? C'mon, you cant be serious

 

[scorge]

You're saying Wizards don't get bladeturn?

thinking he was talking about PBT not self BT

 

[Puppet]

Oh, please, are you saying that Wizards are equal in utility to Runemasters now? C'mon, you cant be serious

He's saying Wizzies are better now: More damage, equal amount of useable utility.

 

[[HB]Jpeg]

Their like.. reviewing all classes - I'm sure the underpowered classes on hib that have to limp thru RR's with stuff like baseline stun, will get their love soon enough.

yea i can imagine all the whines if wizzys got baseline stun

 

[Serdan]

btw, what ppl are not realised yet, that Fire wizard with secondary matter spec are actually losing the aoe root now. So they should choose between the utility options, or nearsight, or aoe root. No adding here.

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

You're saying Wizards don't get bladeturn? If you don't know anything about the class you shouldn't really post about it :> And they got speed, buy a horse for 1p and there you go. And a RM can spec the next highest NS without losing dps? Yeah so you're saying if I spec 32 supp to get the next highest NS Im not gonna lose my lvl 47 dark spec nuke? How's your math? xD

Ok so now when you can't whine on NS anymore you're moving over to whine at the lowbie confusion instead? Yeah, cuz' that's so much better than a 1200 dmg bolt

LMAO

You're the one whining; I am merely correcting your whines!

The Bladeturn issue was my mistake, I mis-read the spell list on Catacombs and thought it was group based. Obviously I know Wizards have a single use BT as I have a Lvl 50 Wiz myself

The Wizard should bolt for more then an RM - that's a no brainer. if you want the same damage then give up your utility! Pretty simple really.

The NS issue is because the Wizard NS line is going to require more points, so spec for spec a Wiz cannot have the same mainline spec and secondary line spec to have the same tier NS as an RM, they must spec higher in their secondary line thus sacrificing damage. In this example you could have 47 Dark and 26 whatever for the 3rd tier NS. A Wizard can't because (IIRC) their 3rd tier NS is 27 or 28 spec.

Point made?

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

He's saying Wizzies are better now: More damage, equal amount of useable utility.

They still haven't got the same utility though; but I am happy with that in exhange for higher damage.

 

[Serdan]

LMAO

The Bladeturn issue was my mistake, I mis-read the spell list on Catacombs and thought it was group based.

It IS a group castable BT. they even can get first PBT, along with 45% nearsight and 100% confusion in the same line. add to this elementary and str and dex base debuffs and one can understand what the word "utility" really means

Honestly, RM is one of the best casters in game, maybe 3s cast time on base DD is the only issue that can be addressed.

 

[Zebolt]

Oh, please, are you saying that Wizards are equal in utility to Runemasters now? C'mon, you cant be serious

I am. And now with these new added toys I'm saying the fire wiz is superior to a dark rm :>

RM:
Spec nuke lvl 47 (Wiz got that + a debuff on it making it much better)
2xShield (Wiz got that)
Speed (Wiz got that but horse are not as good as cast speed cuz' of whistling time)
Root lvl 49 (Wiz got that)
Spec AoE lvl 50 (Wiz got that but not as good - lvl 44)
Bladeturn (Wiz got that but can't cast on others)
Baseline bolt lvl 46 (Wiz got that but in the line the spec in which making it a bit better)
NS lvl 19 (Wiz got that)
Baseline dex debuff lvl 36 (Wiz don't got that)
Confusion lvl 18 (Wiz don't got that)

So lets see what it was that was different:
Spec nuke - Wiz was better
Spec Aoe - RM was better
Baseline Bolt - Wiz was slightly better
Bladeturn - RM was slightly better
Speed - RM was slightly better

RM got lvl 18 confusion + lvl 36 dex debuff vs Wiz with lvl 50 spec bolt - Wiz was better

I really don't see how RM's are better.

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

It IS a group castable BT. they even can get first PBT, along with 45% nearsight and 100% confusion in the same line. add to this elementary and str and dex base debuffs and one can understand what the word "utility" really means

Honestly, RM is one of the best casters in game, maybe 3s cast time on base DD is the only issue that can be addressed.

I was right then!

yes, I saw the debuffs as well, but couldn't recall whether they were base or spec so didn't mention them.

They still have the insta debuff, confusion and speed.

I would love Speed on my Wizzy sooooo much

 

[Deld]

Wizzies never needed anymore utility, they needed more damage for them to be included in a group and I think this patch is excellent by Mythic. Take into consideration that alb is the only realm with five caster classes thus many tools are spread around all these classes. The original design of the wizard was for damage, if you want utility the group had the option of inviting a sorc or cabby or theurg, they were utility classes. The problem became apparent when these so called utility classes started outdamaging the wizard thus making them obselete. This patch sets the record straight and allows the wizard to get a spot in a group, which tbh is about time.

 

[Zebolt]

LMAO

You're the one whining; I am merely correcting your whines!

If you're correcting my whines how come you're not right? :>

The Bladeturn issue was my mistake, I mis-read the spell list on Catacombs and thought it was group based. Obviously I know Wizards have a single use BT as I have a Lvl 50 Wiz myself

If you have to look up on catacombs to know what your own class have you clearly don't know much about it.

The NS issue is because the Wizard NS line is going to require more points, so spec for spec a Wiz cannot have the same mainline spec and secondary line spec to have the same tier NS as an RM, they must spec higher in their secondary line thus sacrificing damage. In this example you could have 47 Dark and 26 whatever for the 3rd tier NS. A Wizard can't because (IIRC) their 3rd tier NS is 27 or 28 spec.

Point made?

Point is not made, you can go 47 in fire aswell then. I lose my lvl 50 AoE and you lose your lvl 50 Bolt, problem solved?

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

I am. And now with these new added toys I'm saying the fire wiz is superior to a dark rm :>

RM:
Spec nuke lvl 47 (Wiz got that + a debuff on it making it much better)
2xShield (Wiz got that)
Speed (Wiz got that but horse are not as good as cast speed cuz' of whistling time)
Root lvl 49 (Wiz got that)
Spec AoE lvl 50 (Wiz got that but not as good - lvl 44)
Bladeturn (Wiz got that but can't cast on others)
Baseline bolt lvl 46 (Wiz got that but in the line the spec in which making it a bit better)
NS lvl 19 (Wiz got that)
Baseline dex debuff lvl 36 (Wiz don't got that)
Confusion lvl 18 (Wiz don't got that)

LMAO - a RMs speed does not cost 1 Plat +, nor does it make it a more visable target. That's not the best comparison mate.

So lets see what it was that was different:
Spec nuke - Wiz was better
Spec Aoe - RM was better
Baseline Bolt - Wiz was slightly better
Bladeturn - RM was slightly better
Speed - RM was slightly better

RM got lvl 18 confusion + lvl 36 dex debuff vs Wiz with lvl 50 spec bolt - Wiz was better

I really don't see how RM's are better.

RMs still have insta Dex debuff, Confusion and Speed. The Bladeturn is not slightly better, it's massively better.

If you can't see how much more utility an RM brings to the table over a Wizard then I really can't help you. You cannot have all of that and expect to do the same damage. Sorry!

 

[Zebolt]

Honestly, RM is one of the best casters in game

Wow.... No point talking to you I guess, that just shows how much you know about the game xD

 

[Bahumat]

There's some hot quote action going on in here!

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

If you're correcting my whines how come you're not right? :>

I am right - silly

If you have to look up on catacombs to know what your own class have you clearly don't know much about it.

I was using Catacombs to look up YOUR Class, not mine! I know what my Class has

Point is not made, you can go 47 in fire aswell then. I lose my lvl 50 AoE and you lose your lvl 50 Bolt, problem solved?

Point is made. if I go 47 Fire I STILL cannot have the same level of NS as you (what part of that are you struggling with?!). I also have none of your other utility!

 

[Serdan]

If you're correcting my whines how come you're not right? :>

If you have to look up on catacombs to know what your own class have you clearly don't know much about it.

Point is not made, you can go 47 in fire aswell then. I lose my lvl 50 AoE and you lose your lvl 50 Bolt, problem solved?

Do math even if some crazy wizard would spec fire only to 47 he would gain 0 in utility. second wiz nearsight is at 27(which is still just 35%, btw) and second aoe root is at 32. not enough points anyway, mythic took care about it.

And stop mixing utility and raw damage, pls.

After this patch Wizzy damage is clearly > RM, while RM utility is still higher.
Previously damage was more or less the same, wizards utility was an old joke in the realm.

Whats the overall performance will be, who knows. I may expect the debuff values to be tuned until 1.83 goes live.

 

[Zebolt]

LMAO - a RMs speed does not cost 1 Plat +, nor does it make it a more visable target. That's not the best comparison mate.

Yeah 1p is so much these days no wizard can afford it

RMs still have insta Dex debuff, Confusion and Speed. The Bladeturn is not slightly better, it's massively better.

So just cuz' I can cast bladeturn on my grp makes it massively better? That doesn't help me at all really when I solo. And it doesn't help me much when I grp, I die just as easy as a wiz does with his bladeturn :>

If you can't see how much more utility an RM brings to the table over a Wizard then I really can't help you. You cannot have all of that and expect to do the same damage. Sorry!

Just so we're on the same page here. You think better speed, lvl 18 confusion, and a dex debuff is much more utility than a much better spec nuke and a 1200 dmg bolt?