Your daily terrorist bullshit.

Scouse

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I thought it was common knowledge tbh:
Ah, so absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter: antisemitism then eh @Wij. Just a wilful misrepresentation of the facts / distortion of the argument.

I get your rabid hate for Corbyn, but that's weak.
 

Wij

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I never said the Holocaust. And that was just an example. I could find you offhand remarks agreeing with pretty much every war crimes denial Chomsky has uttered.
 

Gwadien

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I don't think anyone here said anything about a Zionist plot.

It's more simple than that;

We don't want Corbyn.

Corbyn doesn't like Isra- JEWS!
 

Wij

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I give zero fucks about any of that. ZERO.

The only thing under discussion is does he hate Jews.
You wouldn't be satisfied unless you saw him turning on a gas chamber. You just dismiss anything against him. Pointless conversation.
 

DaGaffer

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I have no fucking idea what any of that means in context What does Kosovo have to do with Jews?
 

Scouse

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I have no fucking idea what any of that means in context What does Kosovo have to do with Jews?
I've no idea why @Wij is behaving like this. It's absolutely fuck all to do with antisemitism.

All throughout the thing when Corbyn was in charge Wij was the same - Corbyn is clearly not a jew-hater. Clearly.
 

Wij

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I have no fucking idea what any of that means in context What does Kosovo have to do with Jews?
You are unlikely to be given the benefit of the doubt on anti-Semitism when you have a record of denying the suffering of others routinely. People remember these things. If you can say that one massacre didn't happen why would people not think it's quite likely you have similar views about another.

That was in response to why outlets like the guardian didn't just routinely dismiss the anti-Semitism thing.
 

Wij

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I've no idea why @Wij is behaving like this. It's absolutely fuck all to do with antisemitism.

All throughout the thing when Corbyn was in charge Wij was the same - Corbyn is clearly not a jew-hater. Clearly.
Hangs about with jew haters. Praises them. Quashes investigations into anti-Semitism. But unless you see him pissing in a Jewish Nana's face then it's not important. You define what is acceptable.
 

DaGaffer

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Hangs about with jew haters. Praises them. Quashes investigations into anti-Semitism. But unless you see him pissing in a Jewish Nana's face then it's not important. You define what is acceptable.
I've got no time for Jeremy Corbyn because he was a useless cunt, but claiming he's an anti-semite because he doesn't go to bat for every cause seems like a stretch; e.g. "Bosnian Muslims, Ukrainians, Syrians, Uyghurs, Venezuelans, Belarusians, and many others". Which Ukrainians? Which Syrians? Which Venezuelans? etc. As for Kosovo, I think "anti-NATO" is the motivation there, rather than "Anti-Albanian Kosovan", which is still wrong, but I've said it on here before, Corbyn is an ideologue, he doesn't understand actual humans are involved, its all political posturing for him, which is why he was a waste of space, but it doesn't mean he hates Jews. Hating Israel is not hating Jews, despite the best efforts of Israel to make that link.
 

Gwadien

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Hating Israel is not hating Jews, despite the best efforts of Israel to make that link.
I don't think Israel is making a big issue of making that link to be honest, although they obviously are going to like it, I think it's more to do with our political system than theirs.
 

Wij

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I've got no time for Jeremy Corbyn because he was a useless cunt, but claiming he's an anti-semite because he doesn't go to bat for every cause seems like a stretch; e.g. "Bosnian Muslims, Ukrainians, Syrians, Uyghurs, Venezuelans, Belarusians, and many others". Which Ukrainians? Which Syrians? Which Venezuelans? etc. As for Kosovo, I think "anti-NATO" is the motivation there, rather than "Anti-Albanian Kosovan", which is still wrong, but I've said it on here before, Corbyn is an ideologue, he doesn't understand actual humans are involved, its all political posturing for him, which is why he was a waste of space, but it doesn't mean he hates Jews. Hating Israel is not hating Jews, despite the best efforts of Israel to make that link.
You are answering a point I didn't make. I don't need to label his actions anti-semitic to know they are still wrong.

For Kosovo, it's not anti-NATO to actually deny what happened. You could disagree with the need for NATO intervention. That would be anti-NATO. Saying it was all a big lie is just being a shitty person.
 

Gwadien

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Changing the subject...


I have a Muslim school friend (who I still don't really consider to be extreme) posted boycott French products.

I just can't get my head around justifying that kind of stance to be honest without defending the guy who did the beheading and attacking the idea of rule of the law/land.
 

Raven

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Fuck'um, is what I say. While I try not to deliberately upset people or groups of people we are all free to do so and that includes using religion.

They are also free to not like it, it works both ways.
 

Scouse

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Saying it was all a big lie is just being a shitty person.
Along with the swedish prosecutor and a number of cross-party MPs.

But aside from that - what has that got to do with him being suspended for thought-crime?
 

DaGaffer

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You are answering a point I didn't make. I don't need to label his actions anti-semitic to know they are still wrong.

For Kosovo, it's not anti-NATO to actually deny what happened. You could disagree with the need for NATO intervention. That would be anti-NATO. Saying it was all a big lie is just being a shitty person.
That link doesn't deny what happened, it disputes the scale. If the US secdef claimed 100,000 dead, and the Pilger report claimed 2,700, then the Pilger angle is "less wrong" than than the American/NATO claim (it was about 8000 killed). Not denial of the event, but denial of its scale as justification for NATO intervention without UN backing, especially as NATO's own figures suggest 500 civilians were killed by their bombing, and third parties claim it was as high as 2500. While I'm sure Corbyn jumped on the bandwagon for anti-NATO reasons, he's also not denying there were atrocities in Kosovo, or at least, he isn't by voting in that motion.
 

Wij

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That link doesn't deny what happened, it disputes the scale. If the US secdef claimed 100,000 dead, and the Pilger report claimed 2,700, then the Pilger angle is "less wrong" than than the American/NATO claim (it was about 8000 killed). Not denial of the event, but denial of its scale as justification for NATO intervention without UN backing, especially as NATO's own figures suggest 500 civilians were killed by their bombing, and third parties claim it was as high as 2500. While I'm sure Corbyn jumped on the bandwagon for anti-NATO reasons, he's also not denying there were atrocities in Kosovo, or at least, he isn't by voting in that motion.
'a 'genocide' that never really existed in Kosovo'

If that's not genocide denial I'm not sure anything is. Putting 'genocide' in inverted commas and saying it didn't exist is pretty clear.

8,000 died at least. It would surely have been more if left unchecked. That's kinda the point.

Pilger specialises in genocide denial and praising brutal dictators. That's his thing. Jumping on his bandwagon is the sort of thing Corbyn does.
 

Wij

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Along with the swedish prosecutor and a number of cross-party MPs.

But aside from that - what has that got to do with him being suspended for thought-crime?
Go back and read my actual posts, not what you think I said.
 

DaGaffer

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'a 'genocide' that never really existed in Kosovo'

If that's not genocide denial I'm not sure anything is. Putting 'genocide' in inverted commas and saying it didn't exist is pretty clear.

8,000 died at least. It would surely have been more if left unchecked. That's kinda the point.

Pilger specialises in genocide denial and praising brutal dictators. That's his thing. Jumping on his bandwagon is the sort of thing Corbyn does.
The UN itself has said Kosovo wasn't a genocide; a term which has a specific meaning. And John Pilger? One of the first to report on the Killing Fields? OK. Whatever.
 

Scouse

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And all of it is irrelevant because the subject matter was clear:

Corbyn has been suspended for saying racism and antisemitism is abhorrent but the scale of the problem within labour was overblown by political opponents.

Given it was, what, 0.06% of the labour membership (or something) but it dogged the front pages almost daily at times, despite what else was going on, you'd have to agree with that too.

Regardless of that - he's been suspended for not bending over and taking it. Which is dangerous in a democracy.
 

Wij

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"In 1992, in reference to the hostilities in Yugoslavia, the UN General Assembly declared ethnic cleansing to be “a form of genocide,” and in the following year the Security Council, citing widespread and flagrant violations of international humanitarian law within the territory of the former Yugoslavia, established a tribunal to investigate allegations of war crimes and crimes against humanity, including ethnic cleansing."

A distinction without a widely agreed difference.

I'm not talking about Pilger in the 70s. I'm talking about him now. He disputes that Putin poisoned anyone and that Assad is anything but a stand up guy. He has been a conspiracy kook for a long time.
 

Wij

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And all of it is irrelevant because the subject matter was clear:

Corbyn has been suspended for saying racism and antisemitism is abhorrent but the scale of the problem within labour was overblown by political opponents.

Given it was, what, 0.06% of the labour membership (or something) but it dogged the front pages almost daily at times, despite what else was going on, you'd have to agree with that too.

Regardless of that - he's been suspended for not bending over and taking it. Which is dangerous in a democracy.
The findings in the report didn't say anything to do with that. They said that Labours handling of antisemitism complaints was deeply flawed.

Corbyn was suspended for disagreeing with the findings, effectively undermining the leadership who agreed to abide by the findings.

You are reading into this what you want to see.
 

Scouse

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Corbyn was suspended for disagreeing with the findings
He said the scale of antisemitism "dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party". Hhe said that. And refused to retract his opinion. Which is why the party said it suspended him.
 
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Wij

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12:15 Mr Corbyn records an interview, to be released at 13:00, disagreeing with a number of the report's points and repeating that the number of anti-Semitism cases is "exaggerated"

13:06 Labour announces it has suspended Mr Corbyn
 

Scouse

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He said that. And refused to retract his opinion. Which is why the party said it suspended him.
Also:
The former Labour leader stated his own anti-racist campaigning credentials, but then claimed that the prevalence of racism against Jewish people inside the party was overstated by those who wished him political harm.

That defence was circulating online shortly after 10:30 GMT, not long before his successor Sir Keir Starmer took to his feet... Sir Keir's speech had already been written to include a vow that anyone who claimed the problem was exaggerated would have no place in the Labour Party
So, Corbyn (rightly IMO - at 0.3% of members under suspicion) said the scale of the problem was exaggerated. Keir makes his speech. Then Labour asks Corbyn to retract that statement. He said no. Party suspends him.

Not for antisemitism - but for expressing and holding an opinion.


Anti-democratic Labour Under Starmer

One of the pillars of democracy is the active participation of the people - the expression of their ideas. Corbyn wasn't expressing anything prohibited - racism or antisemitism - he voiced his opinion, which he should be free to do.


But Starmer's a neocon, just like Blair. (And Biden). If they ever do get into power they'll preside over failure just like Blair did - because that's what they are.
 

Gwadien

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It's a leftist purge, nothing less nothing more.

Starmer is trying to take some of the Tory vote whilst shitting on the Labour strongholds, I think Starmer will do worse than Corbyn in the next election when Labour splits in half.

Imagine purging leftists from the Labour Party though lmao.
 

Aoami

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I don't think Israel is making a big issue of making that link to be honest, although they obviously are going to like it, I think it's more to do with our political system than theirs.
Lol.
 

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