Your daily terrorist bullshit.

Ormorof

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Have sanctions really worked anywhere? Only one i can think of was the law that seized the russian oligarchs monies abroad that got them to slow Putin down a bit
 

BloodOmen

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Have sanctions really worked anywhere? Only one i can think of was the law that seized the russian oligarchs monies abroad that got them to slow Putin down a bit
Sanctions dont seem to do fuck all, I think sanctions are just a song and dance to say "Look we're doing something about it" and in actual fact, they're likely barely touching the sides of most nations.
 

Wij

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Have sanctions really worked anywhere? Only one i can think of was the law that seized the russian oligarchs monies abroad that got them to slow Putin down a bit
Magnitsky Act.

Considering how much time and effort Putin spends on trying to get them stopped I'd say they are effective.
 

dysfunction

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Magnitsky Act.

Considering how much time and effort Putin spends on trying to get them stopped I'd say they are effective.
I would say they are annoying and irritating to him rather than being effective as not a lot has changed about his attitudes.
 

SilverHood

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Sanctions are reasonably effective, but as with everything in life, there are workarounds. They laundered money through established European Banks with good reputation (Danske Bank's Estonian branch, Deutsche Bank, HSBC), or slightly more dodgy shenanigans, such as the Russian mirror trades performed by Deutsche Bank's Moscow division. When there's a way to make money by faciliting transfers, someone will do it.

As for toppling dictators.... it worked out well in Syria, Iraq and Libya right? If only the US had backed the Kurdish state in northern Iraq, Erdrogan wouldn't be so cocky.
 

Gwadien

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Sanctions topple weak leaders, Erdogan is a weak leader, if you crippled the tourism sector the west of Turkey would kick off pretty quickly.

They're majority non-religious nutjobs too, which is good for us.
 

Wij

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Sanctions are reasonably effective, but as with everything in life, there are workarounds. They laundered money through established European Banks with good reputation (Danske Bank's Estonian branch, Deutsche Bank, HSBC), or slightly more dodgy shenanigans, such as the Russian mirror trades performed by Deutsche Bank's Moscow division. When there's a way to make money by faciliting transfers, someone will do it.

As for toppling dictators.... it worked out well in Syria, Iraq and Libya right? If only the US had backed the Kurdish state in northern Iraq, Erdrogan wouldn't be so cocky.
Reminder that the Syrian civil war was started by peaceful Syrian demonstrators who Assad started slaughtering, not by the US.
 

SilverHood

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Reminder that the Syrian civil war was started by peaceful Syrian demonstrators who Assad started slaughtering, not by the US.
Yeah, some kids who wrote anti-regime grafiti on a wall started it all, when they got arrested and tortured for weeks. But the US backed the rebels with guns and training, then didn't do enough to topple the Assad regime, and the whole country went down the drain, allowing ISIS to take over large areas and displacing millions of people.
 

Wij

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The Obama administration didn't start funding the FSA until after it was already a civil war and after several gulf states had done so.

But Obama failed to maintain his red lines and then Putin came in to prop up Assad.

Just best not to view Syria through the prism of Iraq.
 

DaGaffer

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I would say they are annoying and irritating to him rather than being effective as not a lot has changed about his attitudes.
The Russians can't afford to develop Armata tanks or SU-57 fighters on their own because their economy sucks, and sanctions helped. The problem with sanctions against Russia is they don't go deep enough, and idiot Germans keep buying their natural gas. Russia is MASSIVELY punching above it's weight because the West, and particularly EU governments, don't take them seriously enough. Eventually the whole Russian house of cards will collapse because Putin and mates are hollowing out the place and the population is nosediving faster than almost anywhere else on Earth. I expect the Chinese will own Siberia by the end of this century at the latest.
 

dysfunction

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The Russians can't afford to develop Armata tanks or SU-57 fighters on their own because their economy sucks, and sanctions helped. The problem with sanctions against Russia is they don't go deep enough, and idiot Germans keep buying their natural gas. Russia is MASSIVELY punching above it's weight because the West, and particularly EU governments, don't take them seriously enough. Eventually the whole Russian house of cards will collapse because Putin and mates are hollowing out the place and the population is nosediving faster than almost anywhere else on Earth. I expect the Chinese will own Siberia by the end of this century at the latest.
There is always an impact on the economy and the general population but I meant it's not altering Putin in any way. He is carrying on regardless.
 

Scouse

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Corbyn suspended (predictably).

Never have a poke at Israel eh?

And yes, the terrorism thread is apt ;)
 

Gwadien

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There's a heads up to any Labour MP ever critical of Israel; you're going to get suspended.

Boris should be suspended for promoting islamaphobia in that case.
 

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It's to prevent Kier Starmer having to keep fighting the antisemitism crap that dogged Corbyn.
 

Scouse

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It's to prevent Kier Starmer having to keep fighting the antisemitism crap that dogged Corbyn.
Yes. It's political.

So we've got a situation where someone who hasn't been accused of antisemitism has been suspended from the party for expressing an opinion that, on the face of it, could well be objective truth.

That's thought crime. The suppression of freedom of speech because it goes against an allowable narrative regardless of it's veracity.

It's not a racist opinion, it's an opinion that *must* be oppressed because it goes against an approved narative - not because there's anything inherently wrong with it.

This is disgusting in a democracy.
 

Wij

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"The investigation found evidence of 23 instances of "inappropriate involvement" by Mr Corbyn's office, included staff influencing decisions on suspensions or whether to investigate a claim."

That's what the investigation found. Inappropriate meddling in the investigation process. Corbyn then disagreed with the findings.
 

Gwadien

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Yes. It's political.

So we've got a situation where someone who hasn't been accused of antisemitism has been suspended from the party for expressing an opinion that, on the face of it, could well be objective truth.

That's thought crime. The suppression of freedom of speech because it goes against an allowable narrative regardless of it's veracity.

It's not a racist opinion, it's an opinion that *must* be oppressed because it goes against an approved narative - not because there's anything inherently wrong with it.

This is disgusting in a democracy.
I think it's more to do with let's shut down the far-left because they're the biggest threat to the Murdoch (& friends) empire with something unrelated and completely blown out of proportion.
 

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I think it's more to do with let's shut down the far-left because they're the biggest threat to the Murdoch (& friends) empire with something unrelated and completely blown out of proportion.
Trust me. Murdoch loves it when the far-left is in charge of the Labour party.
 

Gwadien

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Trust me. Murdoch loves it when the far-left is in charge of the Labour party.
He does? I seem to recall him helping (or making) Blair PM, and he wasn't very left wing.

I think Murdoch would prefer both parties fighting over the middle ground, so he can make more requests in return for his support.
 

Wij

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He does? I seem to recall him helping (or making) Blair PM, and he wasn't very left wing.

I think Murdoch would prefer both parties fighting over the middle ground, so he can make more requests in return for his support.
He could see the writing on the wall in 96 and jumped ship. There wasn't much of a political gap between Major and Blair themselves although obviously the Tory party still had its rabid right-wingers behind Major.

Murdoch is a cancer. Having an unelectable opposition to the Tories is just helping him.
 

Gwadien

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He could see the writing on the wall in 96 and jumped ship. There wasn't much of a political gap between Major and Blair themselves although obviously the Tory party still had its rabid right-wingers behind Major.

Murdoch is a cancer. Having an unelectable opposition to the Tories is just helping him.
No, but it doesn't mean that you make a Trump-esque conspiracy theory that Corbyn hates Jews when he clearly hated Israel.

I suspect his involvement was him backing up his members by saying hang on a sec, that isn't anti-Semitism, that's anti-Israel.

Sure, the debate over anti-Semitism is done, but let's not shut down the Israel debate because it's an easy way to take down your opposition.

Corbyn is gone, let's not worry about him anymore, let's worry about the message that Labour are sending out to their members - You cannot be anti-Israel.

As for Murdoch, he'll back anyone that he can influence the most. That documentary that was on a while ago on the beeb showed very clearly why he does it and how he does it, pretty nuts.
 

Scouse

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I don't think Murdoch controlls the Guardian, which had the most rabid anti-corbyn stance.

I was pretty staggered by that tbh.
 

Wij

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The message is we have a process for investigating this. It is documented and agreed and should be followed as you all agreed to as members of the party. If you don't you are in trouble.

Any other message is in your mind.
 

Wij

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I don't think Murdoch controlls the Guardian, which had the most rabid anti-corbyn stance.

I was pretty staggered by that tbh.
Genocide denial and dictator praise can do that.
 

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