You must now pay for an employment tribunal

[Jeros]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23482520

The more shifty employers are going to use this as an excuse to fuck people over on wages and stuff, not that don't already, but now its easier as there is less chance of reprisal.

Or should I say, more "admin errors".

 

[ECA]

Thats kinda bullshit.

Got fucked for your last weeks work and didn't get paid £300.
Gonna cost you more than that to recover it from a tribunal, so now shitty employers can fuck over their workers for x-£10 where x=employment tribunal cost to employee.

 

[Chilly]

Yeah but if you won the tribunal you could recover your costs, too. Firms get screwed over by employees, too, remember. I'm not sure I agree with the costs but there is going to be a sweet spot somewhere and it's not clear whether it's free or cheap or what.

 

[rynnor]

Its structured in such a way as to penalise the poorest paid workers the most - at the other end of the scale the costs are trivial to the sort of payout they would expect.

 

[BloodOmen]

Lol, no words.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Wel, aint your country nicer and nicer by the day

 

[Chilly]

There has to be some cost to stop completely frivolous cases being brought, though. The smallest companies are also disproportionately affected by being forced to lawyer up to get a case thrown out.

 

[rynnor]

There has to be some cost to stop completely frivolous cases being brought, though. The smallest companies are also disproportionately affected by being forced to lawyer up to get a case thrown out.

It should be the judges discretion to grant costs to the defendant in such circumstances - now you have a barrier even in extremely black and white cases.

 

[Moriath]

Thats kinda bullshit.

Got fucked for your last weeks work and didn't get paid £300.
Gonna cost you more than that to recover it from a tribunal, so now shitty employers can fuck over their workers for x-£10 where x=employment tribunal cost to employee.

to be fair if thats the case you take them to the small claims court and it costs you a lot less and sue them for the money.

 

[soze]

My sister had this with the bank she used to work for. She was getting bullied and after time off for stress they made her a load of promises. When they broke all the promises and eventually shit canned her she took them to tribunal. The bank delayed it until the CCTV had been overwritten despite being told they needed to keep it. Then a few days after the CCTV had gone 4 members of staff were willing to testify that everything my sister was saying is a lie. These are the same 4 people who were equally responsible for the mistake that cost my sister her job.

She was then told she had an excellent chance of winning the case but it would cost her £5000 odd to continue the case which she did not have.

 

[BloodOmen]

Wel, aint your country nicer and nicer by the day

if you're rich yea, its amazing, if you fit into the "poor fucker" category tho it's turning into a living hell month by month.

 

[Ormorof]

isn't these kind of fees exactly what unions are meant for?

 

[Job]

I tried to go to tribunal and the union lawyer told me in no uncertain terms that because I wasnt black..pregnant or gay it wasnt worth pursuing as they always side with the employer if you cant argue any prejudice against the above.

 

[Ormorof]

funny i always had you flagged as black, pregnant AND gay!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah for some reason i though Job was a bit "ethnic" myself

 

[Tom]

Its structured in such a way as to penalise the poorest paid workers the most - at the other end of the scale the costs are trivial to the sort of payout they would expect.

The article says that those unable to afford the costs may have them waived.

 

[rynnor]

The article says that those unable to afford the costs may have them waived.

They can apply to have them waived though how long this takes and whether the clock is still ticking for the actual employment appeal is not clear. Afford is tricky too - if it takes a month or two of all their disposable income is that affordable?

 

[Aoami]

Having been to a few myself due to an old job, I can sort of see the reasoning behind it. About 80% of the cases we had that went to Tribunal, the person who brought the claim wouldn't show up, but the case would have to be reviewed and generally the case would get dismissed, a complete waste of time for everyone involved. If people are made to pay for it they might show up at least.

 

[Raven]

I tried to go to tribunal and the union lawyer told me in no uncertain terms that because I wasnt black..pregnant or gay it wasnt worth pursuing as they always side with the employer if you cant argue any prejudice against the above.

Stop lying.

 

[rynnor]

Having been to a few myself due to an old job, I can sort of see the reasoning behind it. About 80% of the cases we had that went to Tribunal, the person who brought the claim wouldn't show up, but the case would have to be reviewed and generally the case would get dismissed, a complete waste of time for everyone involved. If people are made to pay for it they might show up at least.

A deposit refundable on attendance would have sorted that.

 

[Aoami]

True enough.

 

[Job]

Ive got the letter somewhere..straight from the cwu.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ive got the letter somewhere..straight from the cwu.

Could sell that to the dailyfail for a good profit for sure then.

 

[Gumbo]

I've had tribunal proceedings started on me 3 times. First was after an employee was sacked after threatening me with bodily harm. He later claimed he was only sacked because of his dyslexia, (I didn't sack him btw, higher ups than me did, but I was named jointly with the company as a respondent). Despite many witnesses to his behaviour it made it until a couple of weeks before the court date before the company settled for I believe £400ish with no admission of guilt. Probably less than would cover his costs.

The other two times were a husband and wife, the wife left after finding another job, I then had to sack the husband after finding out that he was stealing money. Shortly after sacking the husband letters arrived from an ambulance chaser who was representing them, her for constructive dismissal, him for unfair dismissal. I subscribe to an employment law advice and insurance service and everything I had done was advised by them and they took it from there. Later on, her constructive dismissal claim was dropped when it was blatantly clear that it was a massive pile of bollocks, and his case was settled for less than he would have owed his solicitor. Remember, No Win - No Fee does mean Win = Fee. Costs are very rarely awarded in employment tribunals either way and certainly not added to settlements. Essentially the settlement will be mostly to cover the solicitors fees.

Our insurers were happy to make what is known as a 'nuisance payment' because the barristers fees alone for the 2 day hearing would have topped £7k and at the end of the day a commercial decision has to be reached with no admission of guilt.

The husband and wife cases took, I would estimate about 200 hours of my working time to administer, and a few sleepless nights too. I would be more relaxed about it now with a lot more experience of this area.

Because of these experiences I am delighted to see this kind of measure. The first case cost me nothing really because it was all handled above me, and I actually left that company half way through anyway so just got a message to say, don't worry, it's gone away. The other two cases were merely brought by spiteful former employees one of whom had fucked up and got caught and then fell for the charms of a smarmy high street solicitor who told them they could get rich off my back.

This will not stop genuine discrimination and unfair dismissal cases which have genuine merits. It will stop chancers and make small employers happier to be, well, small employers. Frankly those previous experiences, out of all the pain in the arse things to do with running my own business that I have to endure, were the only things that have made me question whether it's really worth it.

 

[soze]

I have been told to get ready for 3 because of people being fired over our IT policy. They thing basically strips you of your rights to privacy as far as your emails are concerned and was written by solicitors it is fairly ironclad. And the cases never make it past the IT policy being handed over. You have to sign a paper copy when you are hired and you click to accept it at every logon.

 

[Raven]

A mate of mine works for a council and deals with these all the time. 95% of the time chair warmers will claim unfair dismissal when got rid of in the public sector. You then have all the Union morons to deal with, it's all costs regardless of whether there is a case to answer.

 

[Job]

mine was over a written warning I got off a new high level manager from Oswestry, which is basically Wales and he hated scousers, so he went through all the chancers..me included..and turned up on Christmas day at 8am to catch me coming in late, I did come in about 9am and he waited for me to book the hours, then called me in for a written warning..I went the union and they said it was basically constructive discipline and he should have gone through other means first, but after a lot of legal fucking around the union caved in and said it wasn't worth continuing because I didn't tick the right minority boxes to get it my way.

 

[Raven]

So you tried to claim for hours that you didn't work?

 

[Job]

Yes I took the warning eveb though the manager had bulldozed through the procedure because he could..because tribubals have becone the political correct squad.

 

[Aoami]

A mate of mine works for a council and deals with these all the time. 95% of the time chair warmers will claim unfair dismissal when got rid of in the public sector. You then have all the Union morons to deal with, it's all costs regardless of whether there is a case to answer.

This is true. My experience is from a council as well, and one of the reasons that council jobs are regarded as so safe is because they don't like to fire people because this happens. If someone gets fired Unison are all over them like to rash to file a claim, and every Unison member is an idiot. I hate to say it because i'm very much in favour of unions, but every member of Unison i've ever had to deal with has been a complete and utter pleb.