Ye add whine malarkey

[Flimgoblin]

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=194196

Continuing on from this discussion I want to try and work out exactly what it is people want to post but feel they can't.

Please post an example of something you feel you can't post (or are worried you'd get in trouble for posting) but think that should be allowed.

Don't use names - use placeholders (e.g. MrX though hopefully any players called MrX won't mind too much )

Censi gave an example in the last thread of:
"you added on me 30 mins ago when figthing Jonathan the Wizard"

My P.o.V, on this one:

I think if "you" was someone who was a proponent of add-free fighting then this might be ok, though it's a bit hostile out of context.

If "you" is someone who doesn't believe in the extra no-adding rules then this is basically "you played the game 30 minutes ago" or "you helped me kill a wizard earlier" and is just spam.

If you throw in an insult it's flaming.

Random idea: "Agramon Club"

Decide on your list of rules of what is bad and what is good. (e.g. adding on an 8v8 fight, adding on a 1v1 fight, whether adding on two other realms fighting is bad etc.), decide on how to identify people in agramon club (by name? by uniform?), decide on how you want to deal with disputes (<Evil Meanies> joined in on our fight with <Dudes with Hair> in agramon! Oi!).

If someone does break the rules you could discuss it but you can call it "breaking rule X" not adding...

If someone subscribes to the whole "no-add" thing you can identify them and discuss with them, but if they don't then you know not to post a "bah you added" in their grats thread because they don't care

This would change it from being "omg you're an adder" at everyone else (you're different I don't like you) to "cool, you're in agramon club too, I like your playstyle" (we share a common goal).

It also separates you from the people who claim to be 8v8ers but who e.g. Sharkith doesn't include in his definition - the bad stereotypes....

Edit: Just to note this is a discussion topic, not a laying down of the law so feel free to disagree with what I say above in this topic.

 

[Flimgoblin]

thats bascally what i was saying..

theres 2 camps those that think its right to add and those that dont.

In your in the camp that doesnt you get a few less RP's, you get less kills in your title. but the positives, you get a lot of respect from enemies and those ones that see you not add on them tend to payback the favour when fighting, and you tend to get nice comments and feedback from the community.

If your in the camp that does add you get a few more RP's, you get more kills in your title. but the negatives, you tend to get less respect from enemies, and you tend to get bad comments and feedback from the community.

Moderation should not stop you planting bad feedback on a player in a thread. Moderation should moderate any profanity and personal insults from that thread.

thats the worse thing with these gratz threads that come from people "the community" has zero respect for because of the way they have conducted themselves out there. You can say anything bad.

this is like the worst thing you could ever do to an RVR forum. We have seen from past posts that when a respected player (fg solo or whatever) makes a gratz, theres absolutly zero whine or QQ, its just like a mass spammage of joy and positive comment. That shows you that "the community" is not like just nasty to people for the sake of being nasty. People who get shit slung at them deserve it, and they know they deserve it prior to making their gratz post (they dont care they just want as much of "the community" to see it as possible)

Replying to this in here as it fits in here more.

You're wanting to say "Useless adding skillless player" in someone's grats thread.

Problem is, this is you forcing your definition of gameplay onto someone who doesn't necessarily follow it. E.g. JoeBloggScout dings RR6 he will get abuse because he once shot someone out of stealth. Person abusing's friends will join the bandwagon.

That's not a "respect rating" that's tarring and feathering.

If I posted "skillless non-teal cloak wearing gimp" in everyone's grats thread that wasn't wearing a teal cloak (because I've decided teal is the colour of skill) and had all my guild do the same it'd be a bit silly.

 

[Cylian]

Continuing on from this discussion I want to try and work out exactly what it is people want to post but feel they can't.

Please post an example of something you feel you can't post (or are worried you'd get in trouble for posting) but think that should be allowed.

Grats! (atleast that's safe)






Ye be warned!

Spoiler

2 + 1 != 2

or telling someone who happily "helps his realmmates" that the reason why he'd never seen someone else fight a 1 vs 1 is, that if he was around, it wouldn't be a 1 vs 1 fight

50% warning for that, thank you!

 

[Elrandhir]

hmm.. err.. I got nothing :< I have never felt the need to insult anyone for whatever reason or tell them that they aint wordy of whatever RR they have gotten.

I have usually though FH to be to easy on people mysef :<

 

[Phule_Gubben]

flame lessons?

that's pretty funny imo.

 

[Thorwyn]

There aren´t 2 camps, there are in fact three camps. The so called "fg RvR"ers, the so called "Adders" (as described in Censis post) and then, there´s the large group of people who´re deciding from situation to situation, who might even favour one of the camps but who won´t make a huge bugaboo (or may I say who don´t give a wet ) if someone adds/doesn´t add on their fights. I think it´s safe to say that this 3rd camp isn´t the smallest of those three.

 

[eggy]

Respect everyone's playstyles.

If Davethescout really has earned his way to RR6 by camping bridges and shooting SBs that pop Infs, so be it. Some people don't have the time, inclination or same outlook on the game as those who look on this method of gaining RPs in a bad light.

As long as Davethescout has had a great time in the process so be it! You'll probably find, in fact, that Davethescout has had a far better experience than the whining crybaby types who infest RVR with their ego-inflated views on what is right and what is wrong.

So when Davethescout gets a grats thread for his Phoenix ding, there's no need/point whining "lolol #nograts adder", because this probably means nothing to him, and simply inflates the case that your views are null and void.

When moderating at the moment:

Well done, try and search out solo fights now you're gaining realm ranks

= fine

no grats adder

= delete

ADDING TW*T, YOU PLAY RETARDED

= delete, warn, ban if warnings full

 

[xxManiacxx]

Respect everyone's playstyles.
As long as Davethescout has had a great time in the process so be it! You'll probably find, in fact, that Davethescout has had a far better experience than the whining crybaby types who infest RVR with their ego-inflated views on what is right and what is wrong.

Sound like alot of respect for everyone´s´playstyle right there

 

[infernalwrath]

''well added well zerged and well reported.. GOTTA REPORT PPL TO FEEL JUSTIFIED EH?!''


on jarvios gratz post got me 7 days ban and no warnings!1 woohoo \\o//


'' well added and zerged but gratz xd

those skald runs pre sh nerf killing (3vs1) scouts/minstrels that u could see from clip range payed off after all!11 ''

that one from jox gratz post did not get me banned xddd

 

[pjuppe]

wasn't there a time when it was allowed to call someone an adder but prohibited to tell that person to drop dead (as "you ever heard of cyanide? you should try it" or "why don't you go and shave your veins for a while?")?

i don't see why you can't talk about adds or call someone an adder, noob, zerger, leetist prick and small stuff like that as long as it doesn't get any worse. it's just oppionions.

i quite agree with censi

Moderation should not stop you planting bad feedback on a player in a thread. Moderation should moderate any profanity and personal insults from that thread.
[/qutoe]

 

[Arumos]

Sound like alot of respect for everyone´s´playstyle right there

It does? the thing is one side whines as Eggy pointed out and the other side doesnt.

I knows its a shock but from some of the posts on these boards it would lead me to believe these people build their lives into daoc and are loosing like a limb or something when they die ingame.

I find it sad people are fighting for the right to insult/cry/flame about another person they've met ingame.

I've tried making constructive/interesting posts on this section as you say we lack, however I'm put off as it usually ends up with personal attacks against myself.

edit: not aimed at you Mani jsut thought I'd use your comment

 

[eggy]

Sound like alot of respect for everyone´s´playstyle right there

There is a difference.

I fully respect people's playstyles, ie if they search full group fights and don't add - that's their decision and that's fine.

However, if they come on here and flame people for not agreeing to their style...that's not on.

 

[Vodkafairy]

i think whining a bit is fine, need to let out the frustration, but being pissed off hours/weeks later is abit silly

like kthxbye, telling people to die irl days after the actual add happened.

anyway, average day for scout is this:

-see a luri, engage it, 3 more rangers pop in the background
-try crau, see a vampiir, have a good fight, menta x adds and vampiir does a /rude to him after im dead.
-fight a hero, get stun/nuked by some chanter camping crau tower
-fight a ranger, instantly bails to tower, get jumped by more people, ranger sprints back to leech
-try get revenge on menta X, ranger X pops out of stealth and sidestuns me, and does a /hug after
-trying to get to a more quiet area because 1.5 fg hibs just ran over the bridge, ns spots me, ns pops me, i phaseshift and go to the tower to try minimize the rps they get for me, i die, ns /bows to me.
-watch a really good fight between armsman x and blademaster x, bonedancer comes out of the water and nukes both down, try to zephyr/battler to get it down but the healerpets outheal all my damage with ease, let alone the lifetap
-spot a ranger, get grappled and killed by fg hibs inc
-spot a ranger, engage it, 2 more ranger adds who claim they always solo and never add
-spot a ranger, engage it, have a good fight, scout pops in the far distance and says "if you wanna duel go somewhere else"
-hug someone in a fg hibs while they are fighting, bainshee does a cone ae bolt and get exposed, killed and laughed at
-watch and emote with a fg mids and hibs in agramon for a minute, then all of a sudden the hibs kill me
-after a very good fight with a ranger who used ip we're both at 5% hp, menta heals him up to full, ranger backs off the fight and menta finishes me off.

etc

uke:

 

[Vodkafairy]

There is a difference.

I fully respect people's playstyles, ie if they search full group fights and don't add - that's their decision and that's fine.

However, if they come on here and flame people for not agreeing to their style...that's not on.

same shit as claiming you prefer one thing, yet actually doing another ingame

 

[xxManiacxx]

Bashing on ppl for wanting to play a certain way and calling them certain things and putting everyone one box aint showing respect for all playstyles in my book.

And what u did was bashing on all the fg vs fg ppl evern though u don´t say it directly. It goes both ways u know.

 

[infernalwrath]

wasn't there a time when it was allowed to call someone an adder but prohibited to tell that person to drop dead (as "you ever heard of cyanide? you should try it" or "why don't you go and shave your veins for a while?")?

yeah there was when u only got banned for saying to someonme go get cancer and die irl or something or when u said to another guy : I WILL FIND U IRL AND KICK THE CRAP OUT OF U ( hi wrathofsauron vs tyka xDDD)
but that was on barrys world as well


and then it was like:
no add whine
no radar aqucations ( which is fine but not allways ( if u say to someone : its funny how u find me at the most difficult places gets u warned xd)

and then got 7 day ban for commenting a play style of someone AND NOT ADD WHINING (ban excuse was ADD WHINE and when i saw it i was like W T F ?)


ps olol this is add whine ?! will i get banned now again ? :E

 

[Succi]

Where has my rep bar gone

 

[eggy]

I can't see why i should respect " Davethescout"'s playstyle, when he obviously doesn't respect mine.

As i have said somewhere before, i don't mind if i get killed after the fight etc, but i think it's polite to let me 1vs1 first. If nothing, else it's polite.

Again there is a difference.

You don't have to like his playstyle, of course you don't, but it's not up to you to tell him how to play.

I don't like the fact that people move from Alb to Mid - I don't flame them for it though, it's their choice.

Besides, Davethescout won't understand what you mean when you say "don't add, it's polite to wait" - his view is, it's an MMPORPG, not a 1v1 battleground.

 

[pip]

Of down shop to buy a paper won't see any locked threads in that J/K

Do I add on 8v8 hell ye as I play warlock

Do I add on 1v1 Depends on the name

censi = buddah's last quote was very true, peeps like to see a bit of hatred towards him of the fellow player,gives him a sense of achievement.
Trying to stop 'em now is hard and driving the readers away, I used to love to log on in the morning, have a bit of banter with the Gamers, but feel too scared to now, don't get me wrong, some threads need locking without a doubt, but a lot get locked due to so called strict CoC, imo maybe lighten up and find the beach dude, pull up a chair and have pina colada by the pool

Still got lots of respect tho' for fh mods having to troll these forums lots.

 

[Sharkith]

Continuing on from this discussion I want to try and work out exactly what it is people want to post but feel they can't.

Please post an example of something you feel you can't post (or are worried you'd get in trouble for posting) but think that should be allowed.

Flimgoblin,

a great initiative and asking people how they feel about it and what they are afraid of is one method for trying to sort out the morass.

Another suggestion is that there are more than enough empirical examples right here already for people to link to and discuss. So another way people could help you is to go to a thread that got locked and state why they feel it should not have been locked. If they can please do this constructively then we might start to see a pattern.

The definition is contested and it might work better if we began by finding out how the thing itself varies.

I didn't feel for example that I would have said anything that would have got me banned or flamed - and that in itself points to something.

Sharkith

 

[Sharkith]

Again there is a difference.

You don't have to like his playstyle, of course you don't, but it's not up to you to tell him how to play.

I don't like the fact that people move from Alb to Mid - I don't flame them for it though, it's their choice.

Besides, Davethescout won't understand what you mean when you say "don't add, it's polite to wait" - his view is, it's an MMPORPG, not a 1v1 battleground.

The first sentence is spot on - you don't have to 'tell him anything'. I would set alongside eggy's comment that now and then as an 'ambassador' for your view of the game that you could have a chat about what has happened and try to explain why you feel a bit dissappointed. If he bitches back or gets aggressive (remember your trying to share perspectives and the key is not to flame) then walk away and say its up to you of course but I am just letting you know that you could have taken another approach there.

If you want your game to change you have to learn to lead. Nobody says it will totally change but you can begin to feel a bit less frustrated hopefully. So instead of seeing yourself as a victim try to see your sefl as an advocate for a type of game play - that why you start to build identity and community by sharing it. Shouting and bitching simply destroys your own argument.

The last paragraph eggy is where I feel you personally are generalising and its where your bias creeps in. You don't actually know who average davethescout is and you therefore have no real right to represent him either as average davethsscout nor as some adding zerging fucktart.

Does that make sense ?

First rule of communication about adding is to chat about adding and do it appropriately
The only way you can actually do anything constructive is communciate and do it in an appropriate manner - who knows maybe avergejoescout is well aware that he might have upset you. So ask him to think about it....

edited for appaling spelling and grammar

 

[eggy]

My example was just that, an example, and not a generalised view of how I see the average "Davethescout" player

But yes, mature discussion is fine - flaming/whining at players who have had a great time and done nothing against the COC, is not.

 

[Sharkith]

My example was just that, an example, and not a generalised view of how I see the average "Davethescout" player

But yes, mature discussion is fine - flaming/whining at players who have had a great time and done nothing against the COC, is not.

Yes but examples are always constructions of generalised views eggy. In everything we write we are constructing views that may well be misrepresentations. It is a courtsey to each other to make sure we don't misrepresent each other.

Noone is perfect and noone is free from bias what we need to do is expose and explore those biases as incomplete versions of a bigger reality that we cannot directly access.

The result should be communication. What I have asked for is for us to explore those plurality of views to see if we can begin to respect the styles and practices they engender. It makes the game richer to be able to appreciate its multiple manifestations. Especially if those manifestations are opened up for everyone to identify and to hopefully explore together.

edited again - my brain is mashed with all of this.

 

[eggy]

You will never acheive any "understandings" on a global level when the base of people you're aiming at range from around 12 to 50, UK to Australia and unemployed to business executives.

People will always 'add', people will always whine.

 

[Sharkith]

You will never acheive any "understandings" on a global level when the base of people you're aiming at range from around 12 to 50, UK to Australia and unemployed to business executives.

People will always 'add', people will always whine.

eggy the more we talk the more we agree. We will never all reach 'full' understanding thats why society itself is an incomplete project. That is why society like FH and Dark Age of camelot is emerging rather than complete.

Thats why anything that stops communication is a retrograde step because it blocks evolution.

 

[eggy]

eggy the more we talk the more we agree. We will never all reach 'full' understanding thats why society itself is an incomplete project. That is why society like FH and Dark Age of camelot is emerging rather than complete.

Thats why anything that stops communication is a retrograde step because it blocks evolution.

Messages such as "FUCKING ADDING TW*T, DIE IRL", or "lolol you added all the way to rr6 you fucking lamer" will not help evolution.

 

[Zagg]

Continuing on from this discussion I want to try and work out exactly what it is people want to post but feel they can't.

Is easily answered IMO: People want to vent here. They want to whine and flame. They want to take part in the drama of others, they want to add and comment on it. The flame war was a fight on top of the realm war, a frontier away from the New Frontier. Those threads had a much higher chance to be fun to read, than grats threads and polls.

Of course in the long history of FH pl have pretty much exlored every whine and flame possible and not having a flood of those burrying the usefull information on the site also has it's good points...

Maybe to solve solve the problem, you could bump one of the classic whine/flame-threads for the drama

 

[Sharkith]

I disagree that leaving in messages such as "FUCKING ADDING TW*T, DIE IRL", or "lolol you added all the way to rr6 you fucking lamer" would help evolution.

Your syntax is stated in the negative and so is hard to follow and therefore prone to misunderstanding. Would it not be better stated as follows:

"messages such as "FUCKING ADDING TW*T, DIE IRL", or "lolol you added all the way to rr6 you fucking lamer" will not help evolution."

On this I would agree. Such messages are going to get us no-where but are they so offensive from that evolutionary perspective? Not particularly most people ignore them. Now hidden in your post is a semantic that needs to be exposed.

Are all adding comments like this?

 

[Straef]

'Mr. X is an adding **** :<' should be allowed.

 

[Javai]

Thats why anything that stops communication is a retrograde step because it blocks evolution.

You can't assume all forms of communication are equal, even personal abuse is communication and even 'real' (ie. not on-line) communities have rules/laws which limit freedom of speech.

(Some) People want to use being on-line as an excuse to have no respect for usually accepted norms of communication, or think that because the person they are communicating with is removed by distance from them that makes words less hurtful. (So many posts about people getting upset by words, or pixels on a screen). These people are basically bullies, and we don't tolerate bullying irl any more than we should tolerate it on-line.

I think the suggestions in this thread are rather akin to segregation in real life communities which has been shown to only intensify hatred and misunderstanding not to rebuild communities.

I accept that people from a different point of view than mine may feel badly treated by the CoC here, but if those who want to complain about adding communicated their feelings in a less aggressive manner there would be far fewer problems.