Ye add whine malarkey

[ebenezer]

First of all, you keep changing what I said to you to "suit" your replys to my posts. Duh thats a crap way to "get" your point accross. I said you were a dictators dream because you seemed to have less fight in you than a dead cabbage.

Second of all, I am not for "anarchy" on the forums, not only have I never even suggested the idea, I have never pointed torwards it. Is your idea of anarchy reasonable modding? ok then..back to my point about you being the ideal puppet.

Third, I have never supported the use of abuse on the forums? You "do" know you can say someone is renouned for adding without being abusive? You are my perfect example of a forum puppet, and a perfect example of what brush the "solo crew" are tarnished with.

hehe..always the angry teenage punk( as in music punk) retort from you gamah
And seeing as i do that everytime you post at FH you have people saying you are an idiot etc i can understand taht you have a lot of pent up frustration. if you refrained from answering in the manner you do maybe people would have more respect for you on these forums
Also you havent stated any sugestions on what is reasonable modding from what i can see...many of ur posts are just whine on the mods for being too harsh. Have you been banned urself? if so maybe you arent that objective

 

[Saraden]

But would you say the soloers that DO abuse others respect their playstyle?

you shouldn't "deep read" my posts since i don't "deep write" them
I never said anything about abusive language persons being the persons loving everyone and hugging the world. Abusive language>adding>nonadding in my opinion. However, when i say that persons with somekind of behaviour would have more respect than some other kind of people, i don't mean ofcourse that would be in every case, but i won't be writing "in some cases" after every sentence since i think people should understand that themselves

 

[Flimgoblin]

I think there is a more appropriate line for mods to take, which would still exclude the possibility of people making personal abuse and insults on the forums. This is what I mentioned in my fist post in the thread.

The line I've been aiming for (obviously some things slip past it, other things get caught by it that possibly shouldn't have) has been "discussion about adding is fine, accusations of adding is not".

i.e. in the general case it's good in the specific case it's not allowed.

I think this is a harder line on adding that you're looking for though, discuss what you'd like to see allowed, examples with fictitious people placed here (rather than referencing other threads) and we can try and work out where the line should be.

 

[Sharkith]

Did I not say fairly clearly I was quoting your words as an example of this and not as your personal opinion?

You did and I am telling you that it was not a fair reflection and did misrepresent me - I am just ensureing that representations don't slide and yes I have started to tease eggy and I shouldn't really do that.

 

[Gamah]

hehe..always the angry teenage punk( as in music punk) retort from you gamah
And seeing as i do that everytime you post at FH you have people saying you are an idiot etc i can understand taht you have a lot of pent up frustration. if you refrained from answering in the manner you do maybe people would have more respect for you on these forums
Also you havent stated any sugestions on what is reasonable modding from what i can see...many of ur posts are just whine on the mods for being too harsh. Have you been banned urself? if so maybe you arent that objective

Well I am 21, and don't like punk music? My "pent up frustration" when replying to your posts probably comes from trying to read it and the fact I know you will reply with some rubbish point and insult instead of engaging in relevent posting which this thread has been good at so far.

Also, do you actully think it affects my day that people don't "respect" me on an internet forum? if so all I can say is lol ;D

 

[Ging]

reading this thread is like eating @ "Pete & Burnies philosophical steak house"

I have skimmed through most of this thread as tbh some of the words make my brain hurt...

so therefore as this thread is causing me some physical /mental discomfort I request it is closed.

 

[ebenezer]

In threads like this, those who speak for soloing and not adding, are countered as persons who go around using abusive language, and lack the ability to respect everyone's playstyles.

Which is wrong, because soloers (nonadders) are the ones who respect others gamestyle & playing experience most, and on their own expense.

going back to this first post then...
Il answer the root of what you said..since your saying im not replying the right way
Im reading it word for word and my response will still be that its all individual. If your intention is to say soloers eat a lot of shit on these forum cause of peoples generelisation you are right in a way But the second text you wrote i still doesnt agree with. Some soloers do...and some dont.

 

[ebenezer]

Well I am 21, and don't like punk music? My "pent up frustration" when replying to your posts probably comes from trying to read it and the fact I know you will reply with some rubbish point and insult instead of engaging in relevent posting which this thread has been good at so far.

Also, do you actully think it affects my day that people don't "respect" me on an internet forum? if so all I can say is lol ;D

whatever gamah answering in the way you do to people( yes there are many) shows you do care.
I do agree with that answering you isnt forwarding this discussion, so this is my last word to you. Il put you on ignore for now so i can read what is intresting.
over and out..

 

[Marc]

reading this thread is like eating @ "Pete & Burnies philosophical steak house"

fucking lol. I laughed so hard at that episode. Especially the "A partridge in paris" bit. Whos this cool customer? Its Roger Moore, its David Niven, its Nigel Havers rofl

 

[Vodkafairy]

well no shit, adding on most areas (note: not the ones where sieges occur, or in insta-rvr highways) means you're disrespectful towards your enemies and often to your own realmmates too.

there is no reason to ever whine at not-adding, except if its some soloer who can't compete with anyone and therefor needs help. he shouldn't solo in the first place. i don't consider evening numbers as adding

 

[eggy]

well no shit, adding on most areas (note: not the ones where sieges occur, or in insta-rvr highways) means you're disrespectful towards your enemies and often to your own realmmates too.

there is no reason to ever whine at not-adding, except if its some soloer who can't compete with anyone and therefor needs help. he shouldn't solo in the first place. i don't consider evening numbers as adding

In your opinion.

 

[Gotmagi]

Hey Gotmagi,

Just like to say 'hi' and make apology for other night when was running Eclipse group and we killed you mid-way through a fight we had in which you were clearly not engaging.

Was one of our nukers who did it, think Kranes or Sosuke. First thing I hear on vent is 'who killed the norse? he was just stood there watching whole fight', and next thing was from me saying 'omg, what c**t killed Gotmagi!?'. Was on hero not bard that night otherwise prolly would have disbanded them for 5 mins too.

Anyway, respect for running a solo thane. You are with Theodon now as someone that if I see deathspam of a fg hibs killing you, I /send one of them and request that they don't in future.

Thx for the kind words =)

 

[Sharkith]

There is nothing really to chat about in general terms - "adding" is an entirely acceptable part of the game having been the basis of realm v realm since beta. However, as a sub-community (for want of a better phrase) have taken it upon themselves to cut out a playstyle niche (i.e. non-adding) then it is also reasonable that we all try and accommodate that so that they can enjoy their chosen form of the game. This is where the idea of Agramon came up for an add-free zone - something which most reasonable people would accept. But it is very much a niche that people have chosen for themselves. The rest of us are still playing the game as we have done since day 1 and have every right to do that without having to "chat" about or justify our playstyle in anyway. FH is simply preserving that right.

Now, if those who sign up to the "non-add" philosophy want to discuss amongst themselves "adding" then that's entirely up to them. I've got some sympathy for the view that if Nobbynecro and his fg crew post on the forums that they will be roaming Agramon looking for fair fg fights but then proceed to add on everything in sight, that this should be highlighted on the boards. It's essentially highlighting someone's hypocrasy and the fact that they signed up for something but then didn't stick with the understood "rules". But that is very different from Nevillenightshade who's never made any claims about his playstyle and just gets on and plays the game as he's always done having his rr6 grats thread hijacked with "Adding zerging n00b!" (no matter how eloquently that's done).

Bracken,

this is exactly how I see it - it is how Slayn sees it and a lot of others who regularly like to enter that niche. We are grateful for having that niche. Personally I would like to look for ways to make it more open for people to experience it. It is not a 'special' niche as in exclusive. It is one that is special in the sense that it is a fragile thing that is worked on time and time again and it depends on the wider community for its existence. It is one people can freely enter (although it can be bloody tough as well). But it has rules and it does require a certain amount of responsibility to be part of it.

When people sign up to these things what they don't seem to get is that the onus is on them to hold to the agreements no matter how tacit. Shit happens though and mistakes are made because these are tacit rules that are unstable and fragile. Hopefully apologies can be made and the whine can be reduced - all the whine does is misrepresent what is basically a really nice thing in the space of this game. So to those who do bitch and yapp like puppies all your doing is undermining the thing you love - its counterproductive.

People might not like it personally. But we do owe it to the community for allowing it to happen and for above all else respecting it. In this regard we are back at exactly the point where we are all working together once more. I am of course against whine and vitrol because it is a disservice to that form of DaoC and I am in no way against any other form that appears to exist. Some things I like more than others.

 

[Vodkafairy]

In your opinion.

indeed?

 

[Novamir]

its a real shame we just cant flame each other as much as we want thats what people do in real life over games. have arguments and taunt each other.

i think theres obviously a line for really PERSONAL attacks. but someone's playstyle/character is NOT them. i'd still join a new forum at the drop of a hat if one would host the whole community. not likely that would happen though

btw flim this is not an attack you you or the other mods personally. i just really dislike the way you guys do things here. ive been a member of a lot of communities/online forums based on games and this is the most restrictive ive known. its a shame because it limits the amount of fun i, personally, can have with the boards. what did it for me originally was being unable to make rubbish/pointless joke topics due to nazi modding.. but things seem to have just got worse from there.

it still makes me livid IRL when i see you lock a topic and post something smarmy. i'd say i wouldn't lock around 90% of the topics you do, if i were a mod.

at least you are willing to hear feedback.

 

[Bracken]

adding on most areas (note: not the ones where sieges occur, or in insta-rvr highways) means you're disrespectful towards your enemies and often to your own realmmates too.

No. It means you don't subscribe to the "non-add" gang. Nothing more, nothing less. Signing up for fg rvr in Agramon and then proceeding to add on everything in sight when you've said you wouldn't...now that's a different matter. But stop confusing respect with joining a playstyle niche. Respect is about what a person is like as a guy - not their playstyle. For example, I respect you as you're a nice bloke. I equally respect Arumos for the same reason. And yet you have completely opposite play preferences...

 

[Takhasis]

always try to not add in any circumstance, but if someone is getting pwned and yells/says help then of course i'll jump in.

btw Nave - nice BM, good duels on Odins couple of nights ago.....hope Kirvs didnt hit u too hard, /salute

 

[Arumos]

You see here is what I have a gripe with (I know you are using it as an example so it's not a personal gripe just quoting to illustrate).

The underlying assumption is that FG action is a superior form of rvr that everyone should be aspiring to, but those of us branded as 'adders' or 'zergers' or whatever are not necessarily adding or zerging because we can't do fg vs fg rvr or because we are low rr. Many people LIKE zerging and the problem is that the 'fg' crowd want to impose a set of rules that are outside the game rules.

Two analogies that spring to mind:

The Temperance Movement, here you have a society that allows alcohol but a group who think it should not be allowed. Those that wish to ban it will argue you it bad for your health etc etc, those who want to drink alcohol argue that they enjoy it. The laws of the land let them so why should they stop?

Or slightly more tongue in cheek:

Imagine if after 10 years of being in the top few teams in the Premiership Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U have bought up most of the best players have all the best training facilities and then suddenly decide that they want to play the game with only 6 men, and will whine and moan if other teams turn up to their grounds with 11. These clubs have the most press coverage and so people only 'respect' those who try and play them with 6 men but (and just for Bracken) Villa insist that 11 men is how the game is played and refuse to turn up with 6.

(apologies if this has gone off the topic of this threas and into the topic of the other feel free to move it if so).

if there was a nail infront of me u woulda whacked it fookin hard on the head there

good post and i think that sums up my thoughts also.

 

[Saraden]

well no shit, adding on most areas (note: not the ones where sieges occur, or in insta-rvr highways) means you're disrespectful towards your enemies and often to your own realmmates too.

there is no reason to ever whine at not-adding, except if its some soloer who can't compete with anyone and therefor needs help. he shouldn't solo in the first place. i don't consider evening numbers as adding

in my opintion too

 

[ebenezer]

No. It means you don't subscribe to the "non-add" gang. Nothing more, nothing less. Signing up for fg rvr in Agramon and then proceeding to add on everything in sight when you've said you wouldn't...now that's a different matter. But stop confusing respect with joining a playstyle niche. Respect is about what a person is like as a guy - not their playstyle. For example, I respect you as you're a nice bloke. I equally respect Arumos for the same reason. And yet you have completely opposite play preferences...

A point which have been made over and over again, but unfortunatly is confused and missunderstood all the time hehe.
Maybe one day people in daoc will learn what respect means..

 

[Gamah]

No. It means you don't subscribe to the "non-add" gang. Nothing more, nothing less. Signing up for fg rvr in Agramon and then proceeding to add on everything in sight when you've said you wouldn't...now that's a different matter. But stop confusing respect with joining a playstyle niche. Respect is about what a person is like as a guy - not their playstyle. For example, I respect you as you're a nice bloke. I equally respect Arumos for the same reason. And yet you have completely opposite play preferences...

Our hero bracken is here, The sharpest knife in the spoon draw, if you disagree he will "smash your face in down the pub" *shiver*

 

[andeh]

You see here is what I have a gripe with (I know you are using it as an example so it's not a personal gripe just quoting to illustrate).

The underlying assumption is that FG action is a superior form of rvr that everyone should be aspiring to, but those of us branded as 'adders' or 'zergers' or whatever are not necessarily adding or zerging because we can't do fg vs fg rvr or because we are low rr. Many people LIKE zerging and the problem is that the 'fg' crowd want to impose a set of rules that are outside the game rules.

They don't enjoy zerging they enjoy the safety in numbers it offers, in my opinion most zergers just want character progression with the minimum effort required.
Most 'Adders' play purely to watch their rp counter increase, they roll the best leeching/add class (hence why there's so many sorcs/cabas/sms/bds) and should really just buy a stopwatch and save themselves £8/month.

You say many people 'like' zerging yet i'm sure most would jump at the chance to play in a competitive fg, the fact is most will never get the chance and thus zerg instead. FG is really the superior form of rvr if you play the game to have fun (some fg fights you will most likely never forget, I really doubt it the same with zerging, with the exception of keep takes which are rare in nf)

 

[Sharkith]

Our hero bracken is here, The sharpest knife in the spoon draw, if you disagree he will "smash your face in down the pub" *shiver*

I'm a professional cynic but my heart's not in it

 

[Coldbeard]

A point which have been made over and over again, but unfortunatly is confused and missunderstood all the time hehe.
Maybe one day people in daoc will learn what respect means..

Goes the other way around as well you know.

 

[Gotmagi]

They don't enjoy zerging they enjoy the safety in numbers it offers, in my opinion most zergers just want character progression with the minimum effort required.
Most 'Adders' play purely to watch their rp counter increase, they roll the best leeching/add class (hence why there's so many sorcs/cabas/sms/bds) and should really just buy a stopwatch and save themselves £8/month.

You say many people 'like' zerging yet i'm sure most would jump at the chance to play in a competitive fg, the fact is most will never get the chance and thus zerg instead. FG is really the superior form of rvr if you play the game to have fun (some fg fights you will most likely never forget, I really doubt it the same with zerging, with the exception of keep takes which are rare in nf)

So true, sooo many ppl that play just to see the rp bar move upwards

 

[ebenezer]

They don't enjoy zerging they enjoy the safety in numbers it offers, in my opinion most zergers just want character progression with the minimum effort required.
Most 'Adders' play purely to watch their rp counter increase, they roll the best leeching/add class (hence why there's so many sorcs/cabas/sms/bds) and should really just buy a stopwatch and save themselves £8/month.

You say many people 'like' zerging yet i'm sure most would jump at the chance to play in a competitive fg, the fact is most will never get the chance and thus zerg instead. FG is really the superior form of rvr if you play the game to have fun (some fg fights you will most likely never forget, I really doubt it the same with zerging, with the exception of keep takes which are rare in nf)

its still just your opinion. I like soloing more then fg rvr, but i like fg rvr also...i also enjoy being in a keep take with a caster...its the diversity i and i think many others like. And whatever my playstyle would be i would never condemn myself and lable myself one or the other. Also everyone have different oportunities in this game. We all have different computer power...different playtimes..and most important of all a different rl. Like with anything in life opinions are different, what apeals to you doesnt apeal at all to the next. Some people arent competitive in the same manner. Some even hate to compete. And see more the chat and fun with ur guild as the superior rvr. Anyhow...most important is to understand everyone are different, and not say: hey..i like this..and it must be the same for you.
over and out..

 

[xxManiacxx]

well no shit, adding on most areas (note: not the ones where sieges occur, or in insta-rvr highways) means you're disrespectful towards your enemies and often to your own realmmates too.

there is no reason to ever whine at not-adding, except if its some soloer who can't compete with anyone and therefor needs help. he shouldn't solo in the first place. i don't consider evening numbers as adding

Agree.

 

[ebenezer]

Goes the other way around as well you know.

real respect is what it is...nothing more nothing less. What bracken said about real respect is just a fact. i respect everyone else until they have proven otherwise. But not cause of their labled playstyle..rather of how they are as a person. And no..its not always the same

 

[Tallen]

Another add thread....how original..

If i see a close fight, I won't interfere.

If I see a realm mate outnumbered, I will even the odds.

If i see realm mates outnumbering an opponent, I will sit and watch.

If I see a realm mate losing a fight badly, I will help them out. I do not have the time or inclination to ask them if they want help, if they specifically ask me not to help, I will respect that and will leave them to die.

If i help out a realm mate who was going to die and afterwards they yell at me for adding (3 such Hibs have done this recently) then I will politely tell them that I will not help them again.

If above player then dies while i sit and watch and complains at me for not helping them (2 of the above 3 hibs have done this), I will politely remind them that they did not want my help earlier, and inform them that if they ever wish me to help in the future to ask me, otherwise I will respect their wishes as they have been made clear to me and not interfere.

I am not psychic, so these are the rules I chose for myself and myself alone, i do not at any time expect another player to be playing by my rules.

As such, I do not begrudge players who "add" on my fights, they are playing by their rules, im playing by mine. I respect that, end of story.

 

[kivik]

most important is to understand everyone are different, and not say: hey..i like this..and it must be the same for you.
over and out..

Read what he wrote again and you can see "most of them blabla" wich means not everyone are like that, but a majority of the players. Wich is very true, atleast from what I've seen in mid.