Will this zerging ever stop?

[Cigies]

the point is friars don't gain utility if they spec as a healer, they are not good enough to warrant a position in a top of the range group anymore, the only thing they might be used for is resists

Wardens can fit into a hib group because they will always bring something i.e. 6 Sec PBT, Resists, backup healing, (soon to get det)

My point is that Friars still gain more utility from speccing healing than Wardens do, also Friars can actually do good damage, something a Warden cannot.

Friar healing spec spells:
Major Heal
Cure Poison
Cure Disease
Ressurrection
Group Heal over time

Warden healing spec spells:
Major Heal
Ressurrection

In fact if you look at the spec level 33 Major Heal for both the Warden and the Friar they are exactly the same delve, yet you consider a warden a good healer and a friar a laughable one ?

As for what wardens bring to an RvR group, PBT is totally nullified by /assist, so what they really bring is passive resists and low utility secondary healing, sadly nothing more.

a friar backup healing is useless and may as well be replaced with a cleric who can do the job 10x better.

Most people realise that any primary healer is better to have than a secondary one anyway don't they ? A lot of groups would much rather have another Druid than a Warden in RvR, and I can't blame them really.

Wardens that play as backup healers in RvR typically spec 49 Nurture / 42 Regrowth. How good a healer would a Friar be if he specced to a similar level, say 49 Enhance/43 Rejuvenation ?

 

[Belomar]

True, I'm in flame mode, and my asbestos suit is on. Like I said, I was surprised to see Daemyr say something like that, so I guess I will change my interpretation of his post and take it at face value. :wub:

 

[Fedaykin]

My point is that Friars still gain more utility from speccing healing than Wardens do, also Friars can actually do good damage, something a Warden cannot.

Friar healing spec spells:
Major Heal
Cure Poison
Cure Disease
Ressurrection
Group Heal over time

Warden healing spec spells:
Major Heal
Ressurrection

In fact if you look at the spec level 33 Major Heal for both the Warden and the Friar they are exactly the same delve, yet you consider a warden a good healer and a friar a laughable one ?

As for what wardens bring to an RvR group, PBT is totally nullified by /assist, so what they really bring is passive resists and low utility secondary healing, sadly nothing more.



Most people realise that any primary healer is better to have than a secondary one anyway don't they ? A lot of groups would much rather have another Druid than a Warden in RvR, and I can't blame them really.

Wardens that play as backup healers in RvR typically spec 49 Nurture / 42 Regrowth. How good a healer would a Friar be if he specced to a similar level, say 49 Enhance/43 Rejuvenation ?

Friars DONT do good damage anymore - They are an awesome dueling class but their problems revilve around the fact that their self buffs were designed to give them a nice advantage. Now everyone is fully buffed and the poor friars, whose main damage stat which is dex does not raise enough, and instead their str raises (which is a useless stat for them)

To say 6 SEC PBT is useless is a very stupid statement, PBT is the difference between a slam landing or a Crit shot from a scout. Saying that PBT doesnt help against an assist train is like saying resists dont help against debuff groups, ok it won't be as effective as if they all took their own targets but believe me 6SEC pbt plays havoc with slower weapon swingers such as polearmsman.

You'll alos note the prob which friars have with BOF not affecting them due to their self abs buff, meaning they should be one of the first targets because they will die fast.

Their armour is leather which is less than a wardens another negative

and lets look at usefulness.

You say a friars strength is in his melee but then say he shoudl be casting group heal-over-time spells?

no friar will be using cure poison/disease due to the perfector ML's on clerics which can do a much better job. To spec for their "major" heals which suck compared to a rejuv clerics they must drop Staff (which is apparantly what they should be using according to you) or their Enhance line (resists which is basically the main reaso to take a friar)

and to answer your question a friar who specced Enh/Rej would be a crappy rejuv cleric with no access to bof, instants and no access to spec buffs.


And all these points are MUTE because there is simply NO ROOM for a friar in an albion group, every class must bring something to the group in order to justify his spot - and a Friar doesn't

Why do you think Quicksilver, a dragon knigth Friar has rerolled as a half-ogre mercenary -
i'm sure he loves playing his friar, but i'm also sure he realises just how under-par the friar class is in RvR at the moment.

 

[liloe]

I played my friar to lvl 37 now and he is reg/enhance specced. Well I thought it would be fun to have such a char in an RvR grp, but what Fedaykin says is right. The heals could also be done by a 3rd cleric, same for the interrupting (directly applying the warden role to friar). The resist buffs are nice to have, yes, but they do not justify a friar in an RvR group. The HoT spell leeches on your mana so I think you'd even be better off chaincasting grp heal spells (I think the lvl 34 HoT took around 1/3 mana on my lvl 37 friar).

A Warden can passively benefit the group with his pbt while he can interrupt and if needed he can swich to healing.....very nice healing btw.

I think a friar would be justified again if the enhancement line was given more group power instead of self power (grp lower endurance cost or whatever).


Now to the healing bard point. I for myself heal very seldom as bard, just because I'm too busy interrupting enemy casters and I could say therefore bards cannot deal dmg, whereas sorcerers can. Every cc class got their secondary thing to do and I don't think the bard is of any advantage here, just because he is a naturalist. It seems the bard is so often mistaken as godly class but in my opinion he's just ok (maybe some stuff to fix, but ok ). Give bards ae stun (+insta ofc) and u can start whining about us =) (oh wait, doesn't Midgard have that? :wub: )

 

[Cigies]

To say 6 SEC PBT is useless is a very stupid statement, PBT is the difference between a slam landing or a Crit shot from a scout. Saying that PBT doesnt help against an assist train is like saying resists dont help against debuff groups, ok it won't be as effective as if they all took their own targets but believe me 6SEC pbt plays havoc with slower weapon swingers such as polearmsman.

It is nigh on useless, lets see 6sec PBT blocks one hit per 6 seconds, an assist group of 3 mercs hit upto 18 times in that 6 seconds .... so exactly how usefull do you see it ?

You say a friars strength is in his melee but then say he shoudl be casting group heal-over-time spells?

Nope I never said that, in fact what I said was that Friars have decent damage output, and if specced high staff can actually hurt people unlike a battle specced warden that can't kill anyone unless you have the spare 5 minutes while someone stands there and lets the warden hit them

On the other hand I was trying to make the point that a Friar that specced for healing is more effective as a healer than a warden specced for healing.

As for your other points, you seem to be talking about Friars in comparison to Clerics in regards to healing ability, and i can't quite see the point in that, after all isn't the Cleric the PRIMARY healer ?

Maybe you should actually try reading and thinking about the points that I was trying to make, instead of being insulting and derogatory in your replies mate, i'm sure you can put forward valid points without resorting to making personal/insulting remarks.

In Summary :

Compare the utility from a heal specced warden (you said initially after all that they where a HEALER) and a heal specced Friar (you said initially that they where crappy healers).

If you can reply with valid reasons why the Heal specced Friar is worse than a heal specced Warden in healing ability then I will quite frankly be amazed

 

[Asha]

it's not useless at all
most groups do not run with 3 mercs
people down play it more now than before, but it's still important, especially if deaths occur and the tanks drop red specs.
the fact that friars main (only) str is their melee means that a warden is more likely to play a support role. It's very difficult for a friar to stop fighting and heal a cleric in time if it's needed.
Not to mention that little TWF thing...
Anyhow, it's a joke that wardens get det and friars don't. It makes 0 sense.

 

[swords]

i think i missed a comma after shit
whoops

 

[Fedaykin]

ok lets start this debate again.

It basically started with me pointing out that albion has only 2 healing classes
in an 8v8 gank group, Hibernia has 3 usually (but DH (the best hib group by far - has 4) and every mid group worth its salt also has 4 (2 mend healer, pac healer + shaman)

that is not in dispute, its a widely acknowledged given.

I stated that to gain secondary healing in albion we would need to replace a class with a Friar, and i have thus pointed out weakness to the friar class as a whole (reread if u must)

you have since pointed out that a Warden has less utility than a friar, ok and now we are on a seperate argument altogether.

What is important to understand that DaoC is a game of implementation not theory, what may look good on paper very rarely is in practice. It is a null point to say that a rejuv/enhance friar will outheal a rejuv warden - to compare the two i would have to research spell line etc which i am not prepared to do for the sake of an argument - so lets take your word as fact.

A rejuv friar > rejuv Warden.

now that is the theory. put it into practice and you see a much different viewpoint.

 

[Skyrie]

Make your own char in stead of buying one.

 

[Lothian Forestheart]

Make your own char in stead of buying one.

Well you sold your account... The new owner is a very nice person btw..

 

[vintervargen]

sorc
mincer
cleric
cleric
friar
pally
merc
merc

would be a bit similar to the

bard
druid
druid
warden
hero
bm
bm
bm

setup.. and both 'should' be Ok..

hib got 4 ppl with deter, but alb got 2 demezzers.

hib got 4 'healers', but alb got 6 'dmg dealers'

 

[Vodkafairy]

Anyhow, it's a joke that wardens get det and friars don't. It makes 0 sense.

seconded

not that friars would get a spot in groups

 

[Killerbee]

sorc
mincer
cleric
cleric
friar
pally
merc
merc

would be a bit similar to the

bard
druid
druid
warden
hero
bm
bm
bm

setup.. and both 'should' be Ok..

hib got 4 ppl with deter, but alb got 2 demezzers.

hib got 4 'healers', but alb got 6 'dmg dealers'

Not enough interrupter in the alb setup with friar.

 

[noaim]

Yet another useless zerg whine...


NOTHING will change if you whine about zergs on FH

You might as well stop doing it...

But that post will sure as hell make people stop whining about zergs, for real!!

And this post wont make people stop posting about people that whines about people that whines about zergs, so I never posted this.

 

[vintervargen]

Not enough interrupter in the alb setup with friar.

depends what you mean, both groups got 4 of them.

 

[Filip]

sorc
mincer
cleric
cleric
friar
pally
merc
merc

would be a bit similar to the

bard
druid
druid
warden
hero
bm
bm
bm

setup.. and both 'should' be Ok..

hib got 4 ppl with deter, but alb got 2 demezzers.

hib got 4 'healers', but alb got 6 'dmg dealers'

why all the sudden do ppl want albs to group friars ?

from a guy who tryed all the suxy and uber group setups you can imagine...

Friar's sux ....
Wardens makes Friars and Polearms Sux ...

Wardens root thingy >>>>>>>> friars staff RA ...

albs will never get those resist in desent alb groups ..

 

[Killerbee]

depends what you mean, both groups got 4 of them.

Just compare the usefulness of a friar and theu in interrupt. Theu can do aoe interrupt and cast pets what can interrupt you up to 1 min.

Your setup isnt a viable choice for an alb grp tbh.

 

[vintervargen]

Just compare the usefulness of a friar and theu in interrupt. Theu can do aoe interrupt and cast pets what can interrupt you up to 1 min.

Your setup isnt a viable choice for an alb grp tbh.

compare the usefulness of a bm and an animist. but still, the hib setup is far from gimpish..

 

[vintervargen]

why all the sudden do ppl want albs to group friars ?

from a guy who tryed all the suxy and uber group setups you can imagine...

Friar's sux ....
Wardens makes Friars and Polearms Sux ...

Wardens root thingy >>>>>>>> friars staff RA ...

albs will never get those resist in desent alb groups ..

its understandable since all groups with you in them will naturally suck ass

 

[Killerbee]

compare the usefulness of a bm and an animist. but still, the hib setup is far from gimpish..

Well, sadly a 3rd merc is better than a friar and can't miss the interrupt machine aka theu

 

[Remem]

This is faintly amusing. The paladin-cum-bonedancer-cum-mercenary-whatever who was a strong Order of the Sacred Heart killah, who incidentially sucked as a paladin, who stopped by a number of various guilds (don't we all love guild hoppers?) on the way to BoB before he decided he was uber all of a sudden, and in the meantime managed to quit the game and come crawling back four or five times, is giving me pointers on how to play?

So, out of curiosity, which chars do you have that amounted to 2 million RPs all in all? Doesn't add up to me.

I won't be so stupid as to diss your entire guild because of you, there are quite a few BoB people I respect, but you are doubtlessly the bad apple of the bunch. So, go ahead, troll all you want, continue generalizing, knock yourself out and try to score brownie points among all your idols here on FH and IRC, you are accomplishing nothing more than heightened production of carbon dioxide in your agitated state.

Oh, and by the way, something tells me you're never the MA.

can i touch u ?

 

[Asha]

I think it's past the kiddies bed time ^^

 

[Ghostfeet]

This is faintly amusing. The paladin-cum-bonedancer-cum-mercenary-whatever who was a strong Order of the Sacred Heart killah, who incidentially sucked as a paladin, who stopped by a number of various guilds (don't we all love guild hoppers?) on the way to BoB before he decided he was uber all of a sudden, and in the meantime managed to quit the game and come crawling back four or five times, is giving me pointers on how to play?

So, out of curiosity, which chars do you have that amounted to 2 million RPs all in all? Doesn't add up to me.

I won't be so stupid as to diss your entire guild because of you, there are quite a few BoB people I respect, but you are doubtlessly the bad apple of the bunch. So, go ahead, troll all you want, continue generalizing, knock yourself out and try to score brownie points among all your idols here on FH and IRC, you are accomplishing nothing more than heightened production of carbon dioxide in your agitated state.

Oh, and by the way, something tells me you're never the MA.

lol u done alot to find out info about me, well most is true i wont deny that. as to sucking as a pala, well thats ur opinion allthough i think i did farely good... + i never played with u as a pala, ever. id remember that i think uke:

second i never , ever, generalize. i know some good SS ppl, but ur gg's in odins is a joke. u add on us everytime u possibly can. and never ever win 1 fg vs 1 fg if the mids/hibs r even rr4+ ... atleast as often as we r in odin at the same time.

sacred heart killah? lol yea sure...

agitated... i never get agitated, ask any1 that knows me. most of the time i just laugh or chill. im not mad or anything at SS but as in rvr u guys amount to 1 fg brehons. and u make up for that by zerging and adding.

crawling baq? ok i quit then came baq. so what? does it actually concern u? dont fucking read what i write if i annoy u...

and i aint the MA cuz we allways have the same... elahim, the best MA by far in this game if u ask me. i was in 1 SS grp once with pin and night so SS have no say in MA. u chose a non det tank as MA + he picked the worst targets possible, think he went for a warrior that run, that was enuff for me to leave.

to bad we cant meet SS in rvr cuz that would most surly shut u up, atleast concerning my rvr "skills" id put my life on the line that we'd beat u at worst 4 times out of 5.

 

[Ghostfeet]

can i touch u ?

dont think id dare.

 

[Marc]

lol u done alot to find out info about me, well most is true i wont deny that. as to sucking as a pala, well thats ur opinion allthough i think i did farely good... + i never played with u as a pala, ever. id remember that i think uke:

second i never , ever, generalize. i know some good SS ppl, but ur gg's in odins is a joke. u add on us everytime u possibly can. and never ever win 1 fg vs 1 fg if the mids/hibs r even rr4+ ... atleast as often as we r in odin at the same time.

sacred heart killah? lol yea sure...

agitated... i never get agitated, ask any1 that knows me. most of the time i just laugh or chill. im not mad or anything at SS but as in rvr u guys amount to 1 fg brehons. and u make up for that by zerging and adding.

crawling baq? ok i quit then came baq. so what? does it actually concern u? dont fucking read what i write if i annoy u...

and i aint the MA cuz we allways have the same... elahim, the best MA by far in this game if u ask me. i was in 1 SS grp once with pin and night so SS have no say in MA. u chose a non det tank as MA + he picked the worst targets possible, think he went for a warrior that run, that was enuff for me to leave.

to bad we cant meet SS in rvr cuz that would most surly shut u up, atleast concerning my rvr "skills" id put my life on the line that we'd beat u at worst 4 times out of 5.

We add on you everytime? Hmm. i aint seen a BoB guild group in odins for about 6 months and that was only Elahim and Daemyr. As for the adding. Do you own Odins? No. Only time i remember an SS guild group that I was in adding on you shower of shites was when we engaged at the same time which is hardly "adding" then i got a lovely PM off Zenith telling me to "get your fucking zerg out of odins". The zerg in question was a group of 7 and 2 mincers following.

And Ghostfeet. What exactly, do you have to brag about? There are some skilled people in BoB. I dont dispute that. YOU are not one of them. I have been in emain groups where you have been MA and you DO suck at it. Sorry, but its true. I really cant believe, that you of all people have the gall, to slag off anyone for being a crap MA.

As for our GG's in odins being a joke. Mainly, our GG;s in odins are made up of friends who want to play a particular class in RvR. If they dont want to play a class that fits into a fotm set up, thats up to them. Who are we to tell them "sorry, we dont want your friar/infils/scout in group as u will gimp it". And if this group is eating dirt within 30 seconds so be it. We take the piss out of each other on GV ( btw Shafu, if u are spotted, GV goes wild ) have a laugh about it and port back. We arn't all guild hoppers, trying to get in to an ubah *cough cough* RvR guild.

The whole "SS Zerg thing" is getting a litte old. We ran in 4fg's ONCE, and that was after a keep take. Even pre toa we ran a maximum of 2fg's In RvR and NEVER together, yet we are consistently in the top 5 rp earners each week yet the majority of our guild dont play purely for RP's. And blah blah we have millions of members etc etc.

So slag off SS all you like bad boy.

 

[Vodkafairy]

The whole "SS Zerg thing" is getting a litte old. We ran in 4fg's ONCE, and that was after a keep take. Even pre toa we ran a maximum of 2fg's In RvR and NEVER together, yet we are consistently in the top 5 rp earners each week yet the majority of our guild dont play purely for RP's. And blah blah we have millions of members etc etc.

well, not all the time... and 4 fg? jesus

 

[Carrera]

Just like to add this is pharals own point of view and doesnt represent the guild as a whole. He will get a spanking from me for some of the things he has said for sure Sorry to anyone in SS who was offended.

 

[Belomar]

Are you still here, Ghostfeet? You have been dismissed. Continue trying to pick a fight with SS if you wish, I, and the rest of SS, have nothing at all against BoB (nor in fact most other Albion guilds -- we do not go in with the attitude of being better than others in any regard). I, on the other hand, will rest assured in the capabilities and virtues of my own guild, and your angry little voice shouting at me on a forum won't disturb me the slightest.

So no, Carrera, don't worry.

 

[Marc]

well, not all the time... and 4 fg? jesus

We heard you were running round briefine and the 4fg consisted of all our guildies that wanted to kill you

 

[Carrera]

Also BoB is not a "leet rvr guild" just a small group of friends that like to play together (We all have been in big guilds but hated not knowing / liking everyone). Please don't implie we are a "wannabee leet rvr guild" because we certainly aren't, we just try our best. Pharal is also not a guild hopper, but a friend that goes back a long way. He's been in about 3 guilds over 2 years? 1 of which died so don't see how that makes him a guild hopper