Why is mid the only realm that gets two classes with nearsight?

[Belomar]

Or! Why is mid the only realm who gets a 2.5 speed spec nuke? Wich ontop is a 186 delve laiftap?

Says the Sorcerer. May I remind you that your own baseline lifetap is 179 delve, and the very fact that it is baseline allows you to spec for things that make you the true Swiss Army Knives of DAoC?

Typical shitshorc.

 

[Ogen]

Says the Sorcerer. May I remind you that your own baseline lifetap is 179 delve, and the very fact that it is baseline allows you to spec for things that make you the true Swiss Army Knives of DAoC?

Typical shitshorc.

Orly. Do you even know the difference between spec and base nukes?

I like the swiss army knife thing tho What does that make warlocks? a-bombs?

 

[Puppet]

Just face it, Midgard has the best support, the best casters and the best melee.

Keep-issues for Midgard where fixed with warlocks, high-end PvE was fixed with Valk + Thane 'I count now for XX more players'-buff.

 

[chretien]

Why is the Wizard the only list caster (apart from necro who doesn't need it) not to get a bladeturn?
Why does Hib have castable nukes on an assassin?
Why don't Mid get charm on a caster class?

Big secret below! Prepare for a shock!

Spoiler

Because all the realms are supposed to be different!

 

[Guindor]

they will give the others a second class with NS when mid get a pet spam class so we can farm i.e ml10 with a fg ( !!!) and not 30+ ffs

 

[chretien]

they will give the others a second class with NS when mid get a pet spam class so we can farm i.e ml10 with a fg ( !!!) and not 30+ ffs

Hmm.. I don't remember reading about the new NS classes for Alb and Hib in 1.79 when Mid gets the petspam equivalent.
I don't think anyone can farm ML10 with a full group anymore anyway. Alb I don't think ever could. Hib could for a bit till they made Draco shroom resistant. I've run it twice with 4fg and more and it still took ages to kill even with Theurgs. I've seen Draco die in about the same amount of time as we killed him to even numbers of Warriors with their free 2h spec and red celerity. I've seen Mid fgs take on and cream stuff in PvE that would be almost impossible for an Alb group to live through. Try playing more than one realm, does wonders for your perspective.

 

[Vladamir]

Why is the Wizard the only list caster (apart from necro who doesn't need it) not to get a bladeturn?

Erm, wizard's do get a bladeturn?

 

[Fana]

Erm, wizard's do get a bladeturn?

<edit>

 

[chretien]

Erm, wizard's do get a bladeturn?

I meant those other wizards, the ones without bladeturn. *koff*

 

[Belomar]

Just face it, Midgard has the best support, the best casters and the best melee.

Let's be reasonable here, that's an extremely general statement and you know it. While Mid support is superior (although the development from four to three Seers in modern Mid groups has arguably affected their robustness, albeit vastly improved their damage output), you are going too far with the "best casters" and the "best melee" bits. I frankly expected a more nuanced view from an experienced player such as yourself, Puppet. Midgard FGs have a small edge on enemy FGs in 8 vs 8 RvR, but that's it. Claiming otherwise is just an exercise in self-deception.

Anyway, to answer the original question, the realms are different. That is all you need to know. We can debate the pros and cons of each realm

 

[Ogen]

Why is the Wizard the only list caster (apart from necro who doesn't need it) not to get a bladeturn?
Why does Hib have castable nukes on an assassin?
Why don't Mid get charm on a caster class?

Big secret below! Prepare for a shock!

Spoiler

Because all the realms are supposed to be different!

Well, if you talk about real charm alb dosent have it on a caster either, We get a pet control buff, highest lvl50 mops. But wouldnt you rather have a perma BG pet? And besides, who ever plays a mentalist?
About hib assasin, i think its prolly the same reson they get less skill points compared to the other two assasins.

 

[Javai]

I find it stranger that Mids have two spread heal classes, one of whom can do it without using power.

 

[Gazon]

Erm, wizard's do get a bladeturn?

They do? Omigod! ... okay! ... erm ... now gifv nearsight next patch kktnxbye! or banelord!

 

[Bahumat]

I find it stranger that Mids have two spread heal classes, one of whom can do it without using power.

thats not fair to be honest, i mean the warlock was only meant to be a 2 month joke class but due to a corruption in the database they cant remove them or nerf them!

 

[Svartmetall]

Just face it, Midgard has the best support, the best casters and the best melee.

Keep-issues for Midgard where fixed with warlocks, high-end PvE was fixed with Valk + Thane 'I count now for XX more players'-buff.

Somehow, I'm not surprised that you have no Mid characters in your sig if you can come out with statements of magnificent ignorance like this.

 

[remi]

Somehow, I'm not surprised that you have no Mid characters in your sig if you can come out with statements of magnificent ignorance like this.

yea, agree, should just ignore puppet all toghter

 

[Bhalage]

Somehow, I'm not surprised that you have no Mid characters in your sig if you can come out with statements of magnificent ignorance like this.

/sigh

 

[chretien]

Somehow, I'm not surprised that you have no Mid characters in your sig if you can come out with statements of magnificent ignorance like this.

Best support class: Healer. Three useful spec lines unlike Clerics who get two and Druid who only spec 2. Shaman means that most Mid groups have buff shears without sacrificing healing efficiency which alb or Hib would need to do.

Best casters. RM is probably the best damage caster although it's close with the Eldritch.
Spiritmaster is the best utility caster by far. Warlocks are just silly and I don't think I need to go into that particular can of worms. BD s the most survivable caster and one of the best visible classes for soloing with. Unlike Sorcs, they don't need to wait till RR5 for their survival tools - Healing pets and insta 4s lifetap.

Best tanks. Trolls for damage and Kobbies for defence give Warriors both ends of the spectrum and Mid weaponskills give them more individual flexibility than other realms. Zerkers are once again the best light tank after Savages got toned down.

You keep going on about Sorcs and how they'd have been nerfed to hell if they were a Mid class, but honestly, if they were a Mid class no-one would play them. BD is a better LT and pet class, Pac Healers are far better CCers and SM is a better utility caster with PBAoE and an intercepting pet. The only thing that made Sorcs harder to kill than any other MoC+LT class got fixed. SoI is nice but 90% melee immunity isn't 90% interruption immunity (which SMs [i[do[/i] get on a good intercepting day) without MoC.

The only area where Mids can really complain about classes being below par is in stealth. For someone who's never really played anywhere other than Mid, you can't really see it from the other side. I'd love you to run as a Merc in a decent Alb group and meet BDs, Warlocks, SMs and Zerkers from the other side of the fence.

 

[remi]

Best support class: Healer. Three useful spec lines unlike Clerics who get two and Druid who only spec 2. Shaman means that most Mid groups have buff shears without sacrificing healing efficiency which alb or Hib would need to do.

Best casters. RM is probably the best damage caster although it's close with the Eldritch.
Spiritmaster is the best utility caster by far. Warlocks are just silly and I don't think I need to go into that particular can of worms. BD s the most survivable caster and one of the best visible classes for soloing with. Unlike Sorcs, they don't need to wait till RR5 for their survival tools - Healing pets and insta 4s lifetap.

Best tanks. Trolls for damage and Kobbies for defence give Warriors both ends of the spectrum and Mid weaponskills give them more individual flexibility than other realms. Zerkers are once again the best light tank after Savages got toned down.

You keep going on about Sorcs and how they'd have been nerfed to hell if they were a Mid class, but honestly, if they were a Mid class no-one would play them. BD is a better LT and pet class, Pac Healers are far better CCers and SM is a better utility caster with PBAoE and an intercepting pet. The only thing that made Sorcs harder to kill than any other MoC+LT class got fixed. SoI is nice but 90% melee immunity isn't 90% interruption immunity (which SMs [i[do[/i] get on a good intercepting day) without MoC.

The only area where Mids can really complain about classes being below par is in stealth. For someone who's never really played anywhere other than Mid, you can't really see it from the other side. I'd love you to run as a Merc in a decent Alb group and meet BDs, Warlocks, SMs and Zerkers from the other side of the fence.

soo, your just another one of those who never played mid, right? xD

edit: and did i see a rm whine? rofl

 

[Afran]

Best support class: Healer. Three useful spec lines unlike Clerics who get two and Druid who only spec 2. Shaman means that most Mid groups have buff shears without sacrificing healing efficiency which alb or Hib would need to do.

Best casters. RM is probably the best damage caster although it's close with the Eldritch.
Spiritmaster is the best utility caster by far. Warlocks are just silly and I don't think I need to go into that particular can of worms. BD s the most survivable caster and one of the best visible classes for soloing with. Unlike Sorcs, they don't need to wait till RR5 for their survival tools - Healing pets and insta 4s lifetap.

Best tanks. Trolls for damage and Kobbies for defence give Warriors both ends of the spectrum and Mid weaponskills give them more individual flexibility than other realms. Zerkers are once again the best light tank after Savages got toned down.

You keep going on about Sorcs and how they'd have been nerfed to hell if they were a Mid class, but honestly, if they were a Mid class no-one would play them. BD is a better LT and pet class, Pac Healers are far better CCers and SM is a better utility caster with PBAoE and an intercepting pet. The only thing that made Sorcs harder to kill than any other MoC+LT class got fixed. SoI is nice but 90% melee immunity isn't 90% interruption immunity (which SMs [i[do[/i] get on a good intercepting day) without MoC.

The only area where Mids can really complain about classes being below par is in stealth. For someone who's never really played anywhere other than Mid, you can't really see it from the other side. I'd love you to run as a Merc in a decent Alb group and meet BDs, Warlocks, SMs and Zerkers from the other side of the fence.

Sorry but that is all bullshit.

 

[chretien]

soo, your just another one of those who never played mid, right? xD

edit: and did i see a rm whine? rofl

I have played Mid. I've played with and against Mid classes and if you think that what I said about RMs is a whine then I don't know why you're commenting on a post you clearly didn't understand.

 

[remi]

I have played Mid. I've played with and against Mid classes and if you think that what I said about RMs is a whine then I don't know why you're commenting on a post you clearly didn't understand.

so you played mid? then its wierd you got everything so fucking wrong.

 

[Belomar]

Wow, that's an amazing amount of garbage unloaded in one go.

Shaman means that most Mid groups have buff shears without sacrificing healing efficiency which alb or Hib would need to do.

All decent Alb and Hib groups will have access to shearers--the fact that, as you claim, both Hib and Alb primary healers only have two viable spec lines means that they will also have specced in both of those lines. However, it's not Midgard's fault if you don't know how to use your shears.

Best casters. RM is probably the best damage caster although it's close with the Eldritch.

Yeah, right. If we're talking pure damage (you don't specify), (Dark) RMs have a 219 delve 2.8 sec nuke (1 bolt), Light Eldritches have a 209 delve 2.8 sec nuke (1 bolt), Fire Wizards have a 219 delve 2.8 sec nuke (plus 2 specced bolts), and Bainshees have a 223 delve 2.8 sec (base) nuke. Where is the difference? If we're talking utility, Light Eldritches are superior, in that they will have red NS, low AE disease, AE dex/qui debuff, and even AE mezz. Don't get me started on Bainshees. I'm sorry, but once again you don't know what you are talking about.

Spiritmaster is the best utility caster by far.

Care to explain why? Only someone who has played Albion his whole DAoC career could blatantly overlook Sorcerers in this way. I'm sorry, but there is only one true Swiss Army Knife caster in DAoC, and that is Sorcerers. Claiming otherwise is quite frankly horseshit.

Best tanks. Trolls for damage and Kobbies for defence give Warriors both ends of the spectrum and Mid weaponskills give them more individual flexibility than other realms.

Kobbies for defence? If you want defence, you could roll a Saracen Armsman or maybe even Paladin and have just as good defence, if not better--Saracen starting dexterity is 80, to compare with 70 dexterity for Kobolds. Can you please check your facts before you post more crap?

Zerkers are once again the best light tank after Savages got toned down.

Care to back this up with some facts? Berserkers have very low utility in their style lines and no access to stun. Mercenaries have better defense (chain) than both, and crush Mercs get a stun chain. I'd personally go with Blademasters being the best light tank in the game, simply for the utility and damage of their styles.

You keep going on about Sorcs and how they'd have been nerfed to hell if they were a Mid class, but honestly, if they were a Mid class no-one would play them. BD is a better LT and pet class, Pac Healers are far better CCers and SM is a better utility caster with PBAoE and an intercepting pet.

Wow, is there no end to your uninformed whining? Sorcerers is arguably the most powerful class in the game, simply due to a combination of abilities that have a huge impact on Albion as a realm.

The BD lifetap, albeit instant, is 123 delve, but on a 4 second timer, meaning that is is actually 123/4 = ~31 DPS. By the same reckoning, Sorcerer DPS is 179/2.5 = ~72.

Pac Healers are far from being "far better CCers" than Sorcs, they are just different. Where Pac Healers have instas, Sorcerers have bolt-range mezz. Where Pac Healers have AE stun, Sorcerers have root, debuffs, and good damage. Where Pac Healers have heals, Albion groups typically have one more dedicated healer, whereas the Pac Healer has only an Aug Healer to back him up with the healing. Yes, this means that other aspects (shearing) of Hib/Alb RvR groups gets neglected, but that's just it, it is hard if not impossible to compare the realms because they are supposed to be different.

And what the fuck are you on about PBAE and SMs, the Spiritmaster you are talking about needs 2.0 spec points to have both the uber lifetaps (good spec LT damage) or the PBAE (crappy baseline non-LT damage).

I suggest you do some decent L50 RvR in the other realms before you continue embarrassing yourself with more clueless whine. Play in a FG in all three realms and you will be in a better position arguing about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the realms.

 

[Belomar]

I've played with and against Mid classes and if you think that what I said about RMs is a whine then I don't know why you're commenting on a post you clearly didn't understand.

What is there to understand? It's not as if you present any arguments supporting your claim, you just make a statement with no backing material whatsoever.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I suggest you do some decent L50 RvR in the other realms before you continue embarrassing yourself with more clueless whine. Play in a FG in all three realms and you will be in a better position arguing about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the realms.

last time I saw any particularly heated discussion on the rvr boards (excal ones at the time) about relative strengths in FG rvr people were complaining about banelord bonedancers and those overpowered mid groups...

most whine directed towards alb is about solo sorcerers adding on fights or zergs...

Side point:
You'll note that some people are arguing their points without having to slag whoever they're replying to off as well - might be nice if a few more people in this thread tried that. Shows a little bit of insecurity about your argument if you're having to direct comments at the poster not at their ideas.

 

[Dorimor1]

We could go on for years discussing what advantages and disadvantages each realm has but I think the thrill of DAoC is the fact that each realm has its own individual abilities. WoW is all too predictable because Alliance and Horde both have the same classes. I remember when I was in OF for the first time and never really knew what was coming and when I saw what the other realms could do I was like 'wow'. I think its best that the realms stay like this, if Mythic implemented a system where each realm has 2 NSers, 3 Mezzers, 2 Spread Heals, 1 Petspammer or whatever then it would just ruin things tbh.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Wow, that's an amazing amount of garbage unloaded in one go.
All decent Alb and Hib groups will have access to shearers--the fact that, as you claim, both Hib and Alb primary healers only have two viable spec lines means that they will also have specced in both of those lines. However, it's not Midgard's fault if you don't know how to use your shears.

I believe standard practice is moc1 + spam them. Not so easy if you have to heal mid way through at 25% effectiveness.

Yeah, right. If we're talking pure damage (you don't specify), (Dark) RMs have a 219 delve 2.8 sec nuke (1 bolt), Light Eldritches have a 209 delve 2.8 sec nuke (1 bolt), Fire Wizards have a 219 delve 2.8 sec nuke (plus 2 specced bolts), and Bainshees have a 223 delve 2.8 sec (base) nuke. Where is the difference? If we're talking utility, Light Eldritches are superior, in that they will have red NS, low AE disease, AE dex/qui debuff, and even AE mezz.

I'd agree there - light elds are probably nastier than runeys for a spec nuke spec. If he was referring to bolt casters though - fire wizards get a slightly higher delve at the expense of no resist debuffs or nearsight.

there is only one true Swiss Army Knife caster in DAoC, and that is Sorcerers. Claiming otherwise is quite frankly horseshit.

Why's this? elaborate on your point. You can't go dismissing someone's entire argument with "that's bull coz I say so".

Sure sorcerers have lots of tricks but what specs are you comparing here?

They have damage, they have mezz, they have pets - good utility, but they're a jack of all trades. They're not the monster supercaster that everyone seems to suggest they are when whining about them. Sure a RR5 ML9 sorc with all his tricks up is nasty but so is a RR5 ML9 of most things.

The BD lifetap, albeit instant, is 123 delve, but on a 4 second timer, meaning that is is actually 123/4 = ~31 DPS. By the same reckoning, Sorcerer DPS is 179/2.5 = ~72.

and you can cast at the same time as using it, while spamming banelord interrupts - joy! as far as survivability goes a bonedancer far surpasses a sorc. Overall there's other things to worry about but when it comes to staying alive I'd rather be a bonedancer.

And what the fuck are you on about PBAE and SMs, the Spiritmaster you are talking about needs 2.0 spec points to have both the uber lifetaps (good spec LT damage) or the PBAE (crappy baseline non-LT damage).

Pet and pbaoe, not lifetap and pbaoe. Read the post again.

 

[Flimgoblin]

yeah at the end of the day - realms are different.

The only big disparities I see at the moment from my admittely rose-chalice tinted glasses are albion's lack of aoe damage, warlocks just being stupid and bainshee's aoe nonsense.

I'd probably also reduce the return on all lifetaps (or make them all 3.0s casting) if I were in charge just because lifetaps outdamaging pure nukes over time is just a bit silly
(and you'd probably need some other minor balance changes to put various classes into line post-change)

 

[Ryuno]

I saw a thing about stealthers, way way up.

As I understand it, and have been told from a few people.

Alb Infils get 2.5 spec points per level for spec (as in level * 2.5), and can use crossbows.

Hib shades only get 2.2 points per level for spec and no ranged weapons. To counter this they have 2 DDs.

Mid Blades only get 2.2 points as well. To counter this they can use 2 handed weapons. Note Shadowblades can use throwing daggers, so they still have a ranged weapon.


If im going to jump in on the OP whine, i'll stay on topic with my stealthers.

Each Assasin in each realm has a evade stun style, however Alb get theirs at level 50 weapon only, Mid get theres through the LA line (irrc), which also means you have to have a bit lower CS than I would personally like, but Hib get their evade stun style at Level 25. Thats OP if you ask me tbh.

But im happy with all realms being different, it makes things interesting if you ask me. And yes I have played all 3 realms, currently on my last 1 (mid).

 

[Belomar]

Why's this? elaborate on your point. You can't go dismissing someone's entire argument with "that's bull coz I say so".

Why not? That's what chretien did in the first place.

Anyway, the thing with Sorcerers is a collection of abilities that come together into both an excellent utility caster, as well as the possibility of doing decent damage. I am no expert on Sorcerers these days, but wouldn't a "standard" Sorcerer spec 40 body and 36 mind for the best all-round spec? In that case, that would include bolt-range mezz, AE root, both AE s/c and d/q debuffs, cure mezz, 2.5 sec 179d LTs backed up with 40+11+RRs body spec, and a yellow pet that can be buffed and ML9ed at will (plus bring whatever nice abilities it happens to have, including stun, See Hidden, nukes, 2H swinging at uncapped speed, etc).

and you can cast at the same time as using it, while spamming banelord interrupts - joy! as far as survivability goes a bonedancer far surpasses a sorc.

Yes, but what I responded to was chretien's claim of BDs being a superior LT caster than Sorcerers, which I don't agree with for the reasons outlined above. Better survivability, yes, I agree, and comparing the two classes outright is not fair either.