Why is mid the only realm that gets two classes with nearsight?

[Flimgoblin]

think shadowblades got given more hp at the time infs/ns's got their stuff... a massive 50hp or something at level 50

wooh!

 

[Ryuno]

think shadowblades got given more hp at the time infs/ns's got their stuff... a massive 50hp or something at level 50

wooh!

lol

 

[Chimaira]

Fucking hell

Casters of r0x
Theurgist=overpowered well played not easymode cause no insta win tools

Sorc=overpowered tons of tools, good rr5, ml9 pet etc etc

Eldritch=red nearsight with spec dd? joking? fucking bullshit since rest of the casters with normal NS has to sacrifice level of NS or get shit damage for theirs. good RR5, VERY devastating class if player knows what hes/she doing

Bonedancer=Uber RA´s,survavability of doom vs anything. BAOD/TWF BANELORD insta shit no need say more high dps due to nuke spam together with lieftap lieftap

Spiritmaster=got some nifty abilities but would to be quite honest be fuck all without their uber pet. I rate em high though for their survability ml9 and ae debuffs



Nowadays Im playing my newly made RM. Funny class but after been on theurg on both EU and US for ages I sincerely lack the utility.
My theurgh as same nuke 10 lower delve. very good damage type (spirit, ppl skips in sc) pets aoe root aoe cc pbt whatever you want its there on a theurg. you dont need to get a line to above 20 on earth/ice to make it viable.

In my book Theurgist is #1 Caster in daoc
why?
Fun
LOTS OF TOOLS that always are used
Range=Fun
very underplayed class even though its abilities (surprises me)

I rather be one outta 50 theurgs than 1 outta 400 sorcs

 

[chretien]

Wow, that's an amazing amount of garbage unloaded in one go.
All decent Alb and Hib groups will have access to shearers--the fact that, as you claim, both Hib and Alb primary healers only have two viable spec lines means that they will also have specced in both of those lines. However, it's not Midgard's fault if you don't know how to use your shears.

My rejuve Cleric has yellow buff shears which won't shear red buffs. He's also busy healing in most fights. If there was an Enh cleric in the group with red shears he'd be busy healing as well as you'd never fit 3 clerics in an alb group. The shaman meanwhile isn't usually healing unless things are pretty desperate so is freer to buff shear and is likely to be specced high Aug for resist buffs and End anyway. I figured I wouldn't have to explain that as you'd know how groups work, I'll try aiming lower next time.

Yeah, right. If we're talking pure damage (you don't specify), (Dark) RMs have a 219 delve 2.8 sec nuke (1 bolt), Light Eldritches have a 209 delve 2.8 sec nuke (1 bolt), Fire Wizards have a 219 delve 2.8 sec nuke (plus 2 specced bolts), and Bainshees have a 223 delve 2.8 sec (base) nuke. Where is the difference? If we're talking utility, Light Eldritches are superior, in that they will have red NS, low AE disease, AE dex/qui debuff, and even AE mezz. Don't get me started on Bainshees. I'm sorry, but once again you don't know what you are talking about.

Well of all the main nukers the wizard is easily the weakest. Yes he can have three bolts although one will be crap if he wants the top spec fire bolt and DD (and no sane fire wiz wouldn't). Runeys have slightly worse utility but a better nuke than Elds which is why I said it was close between those two. I agree Bainshees are sick and to be honest I'd overlooked them when considering the standard three spec nukers. However If we're going to put Bainshees into the mix then we need to look at Warlocks as a nuke class as well and that argument has been done to death already.

Care to explain why? Only someone who has played Albion his whole DAoC career could blatantly overlook Sorcerers in this way. I'm sorry, but there is only one true Swiss Army Knife caster in DAoC, and that is Sorcerers. Claiming otherwise is quite frankly horseshit.

Just because there's a class in Alb with utility that should have been spread across other classes doesn't mean that other realms don't have a fair slice of the pie. Mezz, PBAoe, cure mez, life transfer and attack speed debuff in one line is pretty nice add to that the survivability the intercepting pet gives and it's a very strong combination.

Kobbies for defence? If you want defence, you could roll a Saracen Armsman or maybe even Paladin and have just as good defence, if not better--Saracen starting dexterity is 80, to compare with 70 dexterity for Kobolds. Can you please check your facts before you post more crap?

Indeed they do however Warriors get Dex as a tertiary stat and pallies don't improve it at all so at 50 a Kobbie blockbot will have a higher dex than a Saracen blockbot assuming the same character points are dumped into dex at creation. You seem to place a lot of store by facts, it's just a shame you don't recognise them when you see them. Not to mention that the kobbie won't do completely shit damage like the saracen inevitably will. Plate vs evade and chain is situational, Yes pallies will have chants but they don't have the flexibility of a warrior who can switch from sword and board to 2h without sacrificing spec points. I wasn't including Pallies as heavy tanks anyway, they're hybrids like wardens.

Care to back this up with some facts? Berserkers have very low utility in their style lines and no access to stun. Mercenaries have better defense (chain) than both, and crush Mercs get a stun chain. I'd personally go with Blademasters being the best light tank in the game, simply for the utility and damage of their styles.

I've not played a zerk but from my experience I prefer to be on the recieving end of a BM than a celeritied troll zerker anyday. Most people seem to agree that light tanks are pretty balanced across the realms so there probably isn't much in it. For sheer damage output though I think Zerks have the edge.

Wow, is there no end to your uninformed whining?

Who's whining?

Sorcerers is arguably the most powerful class in the game, simply due to a combination of abilities that have a huge impact on Albion as a realm.

The BD lifetap, albeit instant, is 123 delve, but on a 4 second timer, meaning that is is actually 123/4 = ~31 DPS. By the same reckoning, Sorcerer DPS is 179/2.5 = ~72.

The sorc however is interruptible. If you let any list caster stand and cast at you you're in trouble. BD's can hand it out even if you keep them occupied.

Pac Healers are far from being "far better CCers" than Sorcs, they are just different. Where Pac Healers have instas, Sorcerers have bolt-range mezz. Where Pac Healers have AE stun, Sorcerers have root, debuffs, and good damage. Where Pac Healers have heals, Albion groups typically have one more dedicated healer, whereas the Pac Healer has only an Aug Healer to back him up with the healing. Yes, this means that other aspects (shearing) of Hib/Alb RvR groups gets neglected, but that's just it, it is hard if not impossible to compare the realms because they are supposed to be different.

I'm not directly comparing their spell lines here as you say, the realms are supposed to be different and one gets a longer ranged mezz, the other gets aoe insta stun (I know which I'd rather have but that's a matter of opinion), I'm comparing the fact that one wears chain, the other wears cloth. One has healer HPs the other can be snapped like a twig. Even half ogres have a 23 dex disadvantage to dwarf healers at 50 before HP tables are even taken into effect.

And what the fuck are you on about PBAE and SMs, the Spiritmaster you are talking about needs 2.0 spec points to have both the uber lifetaps (good spec LT damage) or the PBAE (crappy baseline non-LT damage).

You can have the uber PBAoE and decent dark nukes - same delve as most utility casters nukes as well as the pet and the rest of the spells in the Suppression line or you can have the good LT with a bunch of harsh debuffs, ae mezz, demezz and the pet. As a 'package' I think Mid des have the best casters in the game. You put SMs, Warlocks, and BDs up against the sorc and the cabby and I think it's clear that Mid has a very strong caster lineup despite what you'd like to believe.

I suggest you do some decent L50 RvR in the other realms before you continue embarrassing yourself with more clueless whine. Play in a FG in all three realms and you will be in a better position arguing about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the realms.

Again, who's whining here and how do you know I haven't?

 

[Belomar]

My rejuve Cleric has yellow buff shears which won't shear red buffs. He's also busy healing in most fights.

Eh, yes. I suggest you try them out again, yellow buff shears work fine against any kind of buffs. All single target (i.e. non-AE) buff shears are yellow (acuity shear is blue on my Shaman), that has nothing to do with their strength. (Except that you might get slightly more resists on lower shears and need some MoF to avoid that.)

If there was an Enh cleric in the group with red shears he'd be busy healing as well as you'd never fit 3 clerics in an alb group.

And yet I am still getting sheared by the good Alb and Hib groups, how can that be? I am not saying the Shaman situation is not more powerful for shearing than the other realms, I am disputing your point that "Alb and Hib has no access to shears". Surely not all Clerics and Druids have made your mistake?

In my opinion, both Clerics in an Albion group should be 42 enh/33 rej, allowing them to interchangeably shear and heal very well depending on who is interrupted or in a good position at any given time. In addition, while Shaman shears have the edge of being 2.0 second cast time (undisputably the best shear variety), Albion shears are 1750 range, which is a nice advantage too.

Indeed they do however Warriors get Dex as a tertiary stat and pallies don't improve it at all so at 50 a Kobbie blockbot will have a higher dex than a Saracen blockbot assuming the same character points are dumped into dex at creation.

Read my post again. I said Saracen Armsman (or maybe even a Paladin). Armsmen get rising dexterity, just like Warriors, and a Saracen blockbot will thus be a better blocker than a Kobold.

For sheer damage output though I think Zerks have the edge.

And I believe Mercs and BMs (with BMs on top) have the edge, due to better damage types (thrust is generally better against support than slash) and better styles (better positionals and more bleeds). However, you are right, with Celerity, this situation changes.

As a 'package' I think Mid des have the best casters in the game. You put SMs, Warlocks, and BDs up against the sorc and the cabby and I think it's clear that Mid has a very strong caster lineup despite what you'd like to believe.

Rather, pit them against Sorcerers, Cabalists, and Theurgists, and you have a contest, all of them having long-range capabilities capable of more or less shutting down their counterparts. Or, for that matter, Light Eldritches, Bainshees, and Enchanters.

Again, who's whining here and how do you know I haven't?

Because if you had, you would not have this completely black-and-white view of How Things Are According To Chretien<tm>. I am saying that all realms have strengths and weaknesses and that the balance between them all told is similar, whereas you harping on and on about how Midgard has the best in everything.

 

[Bugz]

And yet I am still getting sheared by the good Alb and Hib groups, how can that be? I am not saying the Shaman situation is not more powerful for shearing than the other realms, I am disputing your point that "Alb and Hib has no access to shears". Surely not all Clerics and Druids have made your mistake?

DI etc. I imagine?

read my post again. I said Saracen Armsman (or maybe even a Paladin). Armsmen get rising dexterity, just like Warriors, and a Saracen blockbot will thus be a better blocker than a Kobold.

It HAS to be a paladin. End is NEEDED.

black-and-white view of How Things Are According To Chretien<tm>.

Contradictions Belo, Contradictions.

 

[Bugz]

Why not? That's what chretien did in the first place.

So you agree that swooping down to a level which you find pathetic is ok?

Anyway, the thing with Sorcerers is a collection of abilities that come together into both an excellent utility caster, as well as the possibility of doing decent damage. I am no expert on Sorcerers these days, but wouldn't a "standard" Sorcerer spec 40 body and 36 mind for the best all-round spec? In that case, that would include bolt-range mezz, AE root, both AE s/c and d/q debuffs, cure mezz, 2.5 sec 179d LTs backed up with 40+11+RRs body spec, and a yellow pet that can be buffed and ML9ed at will (plus bring whatever nice abilities it happens to have, including stun, See Hidden, nukes, 2H swinging at uncapped speed, etc).

Lol, Belo, couldn't exactly the same thing be said for BD's?

healer pets, insta lifetap, styling pet, insta debuff, banelord, twf, very very low chance of killing pets b4 bd, strong nukes, can spec pd5 since caster-necessities arent as necessary for a bd, can have ml 9 if wanted, even if interrupted - can still do 2+ forms of damage, can nuke and land instas, pet purge etc etc.

That kind of arguement is simply INVALID. (keyboad needs new batteries) - apologies for badspelling etc.

 

[Konah]

why does hib have 2xcharge classes...

 

[Raven]

why do sorcs get convoker when ments dont....


the realms are different mates!

 

[Aoln]

Why don't archers get a ML line?

 

[Haggus]

Why don't archers get a ML line?

It's called FZ ;o well was when it was on a 2min timer !

 

[Crocky]

why do sorcs get convoker when ments dont....


the realms are different mates!

i know it's so unfair, they should get soj like healers & bards

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Just one point, comparing healer chain to sorc cloth and calling the cloth a disadvantage - that's a matter of opinion.

Cloth has a lower absorb than chain (but that is partially corrected by a self-absorb buff and can be boosted very high by Physical Defense), and suffers no penalties versus any type of attack.

Chain has initially a higher absorb that cloth, but suffers heavy penalties versus common damage types (thrust), and a healer cannot improve his or her absorb.

The bottomline is that there really isn't that big a difference. It certainly isn't a breakingpoint in comparing them. Just because a sorcerer wears cloth doesn't mean they have worse armor than a healer. Quite the opposite, they can have much better armor than the healer could possibly have. (And which caster doesn't spend some points in PD?)

I know it sounds weird to claim that, but comparing cloth to chain without taking into account what else there is would be shortsighted.

 

[Leel]

Heh, well, it wasn't really about realm balance, I was more interested in giving wizzies and ments more utility so they get more groups. I only used the fact that mid got two nearsighters as justification for giving ns to wiz and ment.
And Chretien, you really need to get a clue, red buffshears are ae, the yellow ones are single target and they do shear any buff of the type it's meant for, except on a self buffed class. Well, that should be self buffed character, not class I guess.

 

[Belomar]

Lol, Belo, couldn't exactly the same thing be said for BD's?

healer pets, insta lifetap, styling pet, insta debuff, banelord, twf, very very low chance of killing pets b4 bd, strong nukes, can spec pd5 since caster-necessities arent as necessary for a bd, can have ml 9 if wanted, even if interrupted - can still do 2+ forms of damage, can nuke and land instas, pet purge etc etc.

That kind of arguement is simply INVALID. (keyboad needs new batteries) - apologies for badspelling etc.

Eh, get a grip. The thing that makes Sorcerers powerful is their utility coupled with decent damage. BDs have excellent utility as well and are masters of interruption with Banelord or ML9 pet and the above abilities you list. However, they lack the versatility of Sorcerers and are a far cry from the arguably best CC class in the game in terms of crowd control.

Anyhow, I'm not going to get bogged down in details anymore. My point, from the very beginning, was that the realms are different, yet surprisingly well-balanced in terms of their relative strengths despite this fact.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Think chretien's thinking of the original version of buff shears - originally on pendragon you needed red buff shears to shear red buffs - but since the idea was to reduce the power of buffbots making it so buffbot resists were "untouchable" cept by another bot was somewhat counterproductive

so they changed it in the next patch bit (A,B,Cetc.) on pendragon to just two levels of buff shears which are effective on all buffs, one set single target the other aoe - this is the version that went live.

 

[Kanim]

Just one point, comparing healer chain to sorc cloth and calling the cloth a disadvantage - that's a matter of opinion.

Cloth has a lower absorb than chain (but that is partially corrected by a self-absorb buff and can be boosted very high by Physical Defense), and suffers no penalties versus any type of attack.

Chain has initially a higher absorb that cloth, but suffers heavy penalties versus common damage types (thrust), and a healer cannot improve his or her absorb.

The bottomline is that there really isn't that big a difference. It certainly isn't a breakingpoint in comparing them. Just because a sorcerer wears cloth doesn't mean they have worse armor than a healer. Quite the opposite, they can have much better armor than the healer could possibly have. (And which caster doesn't spend some points in PD?)

I know it sounds weird to claim that, but comparing cloth to chain without taking into account what else there is would be shortsighted.

no big difference between cloth + abs buff and chain, ok =)

 

[Andrilyn]

I wish there were even more differences in realm styles, spells and abilities then there are already eventhough it is probably even harder to balance things then.
Though it's what is making it fun to play multiple realms.

 

[Eregion]

Just one point, comparing healer chain to sorc cloth and calling the cloth a disadvantage - that's a matter of opinion.

Cloth has a lower absorb than chain (but that is partially corrected by a self-absorb buff and can be boosted very high by Physical Defense), and suffers no penalties versus any type of attack.

Chain has initially a higher absorb that cloth, but suffers heavy penalties versus common damage types (thrust), and a healer cannot improve his or her absorb.

The bottomline is that there really isn't that big a difference. It certainly isn't a breakingpoint in comparing them. Just because a sorcerer wears cloth doesn't mean they have worse armor than a healer. Quite the opposite, they can have much better armor than the healer could possibly have. (And which caster doesn't spend some points in PD?)

I know it sounds weird to claim that, but comparing cloth to chain without taking into account what else there is would be shortsighted.

Erm...lol?

 

[rure]

Just one point, comparing healer chain to sorc cloth and calling the cloth a disadvantage - that's a matter of opinion.

Cloth has a lower absorb than chain (but that is partially corrected by a self-absorb buff and can be boosted very high by Physical Defense), and suffers no penalties versus any type of attack.

Chain has initially a higher absorb that cloth, but suffers heavy penalties versus common damage types (thrust), and a healer cannot improve his or her absorb.

The bottomline is that there really isn't that big a difference. It certainly isn't a breakingpoint in comparing them. Just because a sorcerer wears cloth doesn't mean they have worse armor than a healer. Quite the opposite, they can have much better armor than the healer could possibly have. (And which caster doesn't spend some points in PD?)

I know it sounds weird to claim that, but comparing cloth to chain without taking into account what else there is would be shortsighted.

Is that a joke or are you just ignorant and/or stupid?

 

[Celestino]

amazing there is still stuff that can make me laugh out loud ...

ok tesla, lets think about that post of yours, first of all, you will have to either compare feature vs feature resulting in something like that:
Chain: thrust 17% crush 27% slash 37% + 635 base af
Cloth: 10% vs all + 505 base af
(that comparsion of "armors" is quite simple isn't it ?)

or you will have to do an overall comparsion of defense abilities including RAs MLs etc etc
Include phase shift, shield of immunity, instaheals, the additional realm points the healer can spend (there is no point in comparing a rr12 sorc and a rr1 healer eh ?) due to not having to buy pd etc

If you come up with -2/5/12/19/28% all melee from pd why don't you come up with 500+ extra hp due to the different hp tables as well ?

Can you see reason ? the light at the end of the tunnel maybe ?

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Guys, I was just comparing the armors and the possible modification factors to the armors. People whining that cloth is always bad haven't seen the advantages of it. I didn't even touch on Self-AF, Spec-AF, +AF and the sorceror's RR5 ability (in emergencies). A well specced sorceror isn't all that touchable in melee. And I stand with that conclusion, regardless of what you think of my mental capabilities. ;D

Yes, a healer will have more hp than a sorceror. A sorceror will cast faster than a healer. Except when a healer has an insta. However a sorceror has longer range than a healer. A caster can have sojourner, a sorceror convoker. Etc, etc. Those can't really be compared at all. If you start comparing those, you'll sink away in a swamp of flaming. ;P

The one thing that would amaze me is if casters got any love in the next few patches. (1.82 and 1.83).

Above all relax, it's a game.

 

[Puppet]

why does hib have 2xcharge classes...

Why does Midgard have 3 Stoicism classes....Why does Albion have baseline lifetap..

About the armour... well ofcourse there's a difference in HP and armour from a healer and a sorc, but personally I see where's Tesla coming from. He will notice that at times he hits druids (healer-counterpart regarding armour) harder then that sorcerer. Not to mention a critshot on a druid is bound to do more often damage then a critshot on a sorcerer (due to brittles, self-BT etc etc). Also the neutral-to-all helps cloth more against archers, combined with specAF on Albion casters, this means on general I hit a TOA'ed high-RR sorc for LESS then a TOA'ed high-RR healer. Add in some PD and you're not gonna kill that sorcerer with less then 6-7 arrows.

 

[Celestino]

spec af and +af can be applied to healers as well

i was trying to explain you that if u compare 2 features of 2 classes like armor you can't come up with a 3rd feature and add it to one side

Its just as if i'd replied telling you that a healer activating bof3 will have even more absorb and thus cloth is completly inferior

Its just ignorant

either u compare it:
feature by feature
overall with a complete list of all abilities at same rr and equip (battler/malice gives abs as well !!!)
or simply don't discuss it at all

@ Puppet

You may hit a high pd sorc for less in certain situations still that doesn't mean that a sorcs armor is better, its just the way he spent his RAs, have a healer spending the same amount of points in bof/toughness/whatever, let him max out his defense to grp pvp standards with af charges etc and he will again be tougher than a sorc

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

why do sorcs get convoker when ments dont....


the realms are different mates!

there's acually a good reason for that


imagine a high rr light mentalist with a lvl 58+ pet that is ML9'd

 

[Klonk]

After reading thru the entire thread, the answer really lay in post no 2 The realms are different... if you don't like it, whine on forums, then move to WoW ^_^

 

[Vladamir]

there's acually a good reason for that


imagine a high rr light mentalist with a lvl 58+ pet that is ML9'd

In saying that, doesn't the pet level cap at 75?. I know that a sorc can ML9 a L50 pet for example, making it L70, release it, and another sorc can ML9 it again, but instead of gaining ~20 levels it only gains 5.

 

[Haggus]

Maybe thats cos there might be a safety barrier stopping people do exactly that. If not you could just line up 5 sorcs with ML9 up. The first to ML9 it, then the second then the thrid, forth and fith and it would soon be like Lvl 100000

That might be the reason.

 

[Chronictank]

Maybe thats cos there might be a safety barrier stopping people do exactly that. If not you could just line up 5 sorcs with ML9 up. The first to ML9 it, then the second then the thrid, forth and fith and it would soon be like Lvl 100000

That might be the reason.

would be damn funny tho
lvl 10000 pet ont he rampage cus the sorc went ld and a frontire gate guard hit it ^^

 

[Vladamir]

would be damn funny tho
lvl 10000 pet ont he rampage cus the sorc went ld and a frontire gate guard hit it ^^

Lol xD

Even better, get a harmless little Brownie pet from camelot hills and ml9 it 4 times.

Druid says: lol m8s its a brownie get it off get it off
Hero: lol
Champ: lol
Druid: OMG ITS FUCKING KILLING ME HELP HELP
Hero: Lol n1 m8
Champ: lmao

Druid dies
Champ dies
Hero dies

Sorc walks away with ~3k more rps and a big grin.