Why do DB need instent LD nukes?

[geysor]

Balbor

WTF should BDs lose their most powerful spell, just because YOU want them to.

The world doesn't revolve around you.

FUCK OFF!

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Originally posted by logan6
Me (50 NS) and a mate (50 NS) both perforate a kobold BD simultaneously, me (blades, hes piercer) for 239, he for 280 damage. after 6 second stun, the bd is at full health, and every 4 seconds zapps me 304 hits with a lame shout. Sorry but its totally out of any reason. Why 4 seconds? Why 1500 range? Theres no reason. This class is absolutely a no-brainer in RvR and thats sad. They are fiendish in keepraid situations, where no caster/archer can show his face at the battlements without being lifetapped. 4 second timer is the true joke. Its like constant interrupt.

I dont agree with giving him some form of amnesia... lifetap is ok, either castable, or reduce the range to that of most other shouts (700 it is i reckon) - or put in on a longer timer. 4 seconds is unfair, simply put. I dont care if its a lt, or how much damage it does. The 4 second timer is the true bitch.

You PA for 240 damage.. then you must be a rather gimped Luri i assume... even a L50 skald can hit for that with a 2 hander ( with a following wind...)

what weapon you carrying? a bronze dagger??
My L21 Huntress can hit for more than that..

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Fafnir
At the sametime they can put a 4 sec recast time on pally chants. so you cant twist them.

Pally chants have 8 second recast FYI.

 

[Glacier]

Originally posted by Kerram Darktyde
It is RvR not 1 vs 1, as a bard you know you cant solo anyone of even conn. Should everyone be nerfed till you can??

it is about group combat, if you can take down a BD non solo then you must be a very bad player... or just dam unlucky....

BDs die like the rest of us, Stop whining and use your brains and counter the BDs tactics, just like you counter Assassins and PBAE....

was not a whine, was a quoted reply to a post, and i never said that bards can kill anything 1 on 1, cause quite frankly, they cant

anyway if u dont understand my post im not gonna repeat it..

when u think about it its about time mids got one of these classes... everyone else has had their classes whined about (yes mids too, but hib has more whined about classes) so why not without em it would be no BW eh :touch:

 

[Nonnier]

Originally posted by Balbor
I'll explain again, BD have a 4sec LD becasue there was a problem with there commander holding agro in PvE when there healer pets start healing. But using a nuke spell would agro the mob onto the BD. This stopped the DB from casting a timed nuked so fo DB with healers they have an instent nuke.
It had nothing to do with RvR and therefor amnesia would be a better fix for this than a instentLD.

My point about there DD/Snare was that people as stating that removing it would mean they loose there best damaging spell, but LD isn't there most damaging spell. An instent amnesia spell line would do everything you want the LD to do: 'interrupting casters' and help take agro off your healer pets.

Instent LD was a bad fix for a problem that has nothing to do with RVR. In a similar way to how the other realms saw Sorcerers getting bolt range to compensate having no ranged instent CC.

ok, lets all spec dark for the snare!!

oh look, a supp runey comes up! he has a better snare and a pbt...and theres loads of em about!

get a grip man!

giving amnesia to a bd is the worst idea yet, put it on the BA line... seeing as that is mostly crap anyway.

the LD is the one spell that makes BDs useful, taking it away would be like taking lance away from cabbys. (ie, make em utter crap)

ok, i admit my BD is 38 dark 38 supp (at 50), but i only specced dark for the nice debuff (30% body debuff).

As i've been saying over and over again, get rid of insta...give boneys something extra, some origanal, something powerful!

like increase our pet range, so u get CC pets, pbaoe pets, zerker pets, SB pets, thane pets or something, make our pet line more powerful.....then u take the insta away.

 

[logan6]

I am a gimpy elven Bladeshade, i use a galladoria bladeshade drop and otherwise have nice equipment. Dont ask me why NS without buffbots hit for such wimpy damage, they just do. Its not just me either, its even not the blade spec. Pierceshades hit for same most of the time.

"You PA for 240 damage.. then you must be a rather gimped Luri i assume... even a L50 skald can hit for that with a 2 hander ( with a following wind...)

what weapon you carrying? a bronze dagger??
My L21 Huntress can hit for more than that.."

I know, I PAéd a 50 hunter for 256 yesterday and got an anytime spear style for 277. Dont ask me, but its a large problem to me. I cant kill anything besides lone casters who arent paying attention or dont know what Quickcast is.

That wasnt the point of my post though. Even if we did PA him for 400 or 500 it would help too much. Those healers are damn fast.

EDIT: i didnt say my gimpy breton thrust inf lvl 24 hit for 288 damage yesterday. Thats embarrassing... anyone got a clue what thats about?

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

if you both PAed him for the 400-600 easy i seem to get PAed for the he would fall over on second hits at most..

and i believe the healers cast once every 4 seconds max...
which is slower than a Player can..
ok they are more awake and on the ball than some healing types but still not the Insta heals that Players get and they are not huge heals either..

 

[Balbor]

Originally posted by Jesin Crowe on daoc.catacombs.com/forum
Yes assassins are built to kill casters. NO a bonedancer is NOT a caster though.
I view my bonedancer as a hybrid class with melee an insta tap as my main weapons. In groups I will routinely "tank" an oj mob (though not much higher than that heh cause I get resisted to much an usually wind up dead).

i guess thats the answer, they have 4sec instent LD because they are really tanks in cloth?

 

[Balbor]

Originally posted by Th3Lung on daoc.catacombs.com/forum
Ok, I usually disagree with everyne who's talking about nerfs. My belief is that the realms are equal except for a few abnormalities, that are so slight that the element of surprise and numbers matters more. However, I'm a Troll Bonedancer with +10 con, +10 dex, +10 pie specced Suppression and OMFG. I don't have to cast my pet, I don't have cast my DoT, I don't have to cast my DD, I don't have to stand far away from my target. I cast my insta lifetap on an oj, and finish with full health!! (no pow, but that's why I usually do yellows (and those things) where I only use 1/4 my power). Don't believe me? Do I sound insane? Try it.

 

[the_fnord]

Originally posted by Balbor
why do BD need instent lifedrain?
other pets casters like Sorcerers, Spiritmasters, druids and Cabalist don't have them and they only have 1 pet. If you were to allow these caster to have 4 pets ands give them instent DDs i think a lot of people would complain. I cannot see the justification of giveing any caster spells that are instent cast on a 4 sec timer, it would be like removing the interupting of spells accross the board. Casters could just stand there nuking away while people are hitting them, healing classes would just stand about healing etc etc and no one would play any other class.

Why do DB need instent LD nukes?
If anyone ever reads the TL reports you can see how silly they are. 'My class is really power and well balenced...' is usally how they sum them up. How can something be really power and well balenced? By making comments on problems with PvE they sometimes don't think of any promblems that it might cause in RvR (as with giving BD 4sec instent LD i beleave). Seeing as BD had a problem with there commander holding agro over the healer pets they sould of just given them amnesia.

So how do we fix BD, Remove instent LD and give them amnesia. After all this would help BD more because it would mean they get less agro in PvE.

All BD must agree that amnesia will be much more useful than some stupid instent, 4sec LD. Hell you could even make the amnesia instent

Originally posted by Balbor
I'll explain again, BD have a 4sec LD becasue there was a problem with there commander holding agro in PvE when there healer pets start healing. But using a nuke spell would agro the mob onto the BD. This stopped the DB from casting a timed nuked so fo DB with healers they have an instent nuke.
It had nothing to do with RvR and therefor amnesia would be a better fix for this than a instentLD.

My point about there DD/Snare was that people as stating that removing it would mean they loose there best damaging spell, but LD isn't there most damaging spell. An instent amnesia spell line would do everything you want the LD to do: 'interrupting casters' and help take agro off your healer pets.

Instent LD was a bad fix for a problem that has nothing to do with RVR. In a similar way to how the other realms saw Sorcerers getting bolt range to compensate having no ranged instent CC.

What I wonder is why Balbor is so concerned with BD's PvE abilities? Again and again he stress PvE.... His sig says he's a Cleric and that ain't no mid class is it???
So Balbor: Why all this concern about a midclass's PvE??? Isn't it so that in the end u just can't stand it that they got sumthin that's good and u want it to???
Oh and btw Balbor: U want cheese with ur whine?

 

[case-rigantis]

1 BD took out 5 level 50 albs today 6 or 7 times

did we do something wrong ? probably but should any class solo be able to do that?

the story..
2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout starts shooting at it merc hits it friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health

second try...

2 infi`s PA bone commander scout shoots bonedancer merc hits bonedancer friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health..

3rd try

2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout shoots healer pet merc hits healer pet friar hits bone commander

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health...


notice a pattern here? everyone knows BD`s are over powered in RvR it`s a fact not an opinion please someone pass over the nerf bat

why don`t necro`s get a 4 second lifetap insta?
why don`t cabby`s?
why don`t sorcerors?

in fact why don`t any of the above get nuke range instas that do 300+ damage? because if they had that everyone would be screaming over powered

 

[the_fnord]

Originally posted by case-rigantis
1 BD took out 5 level 50 albs today 6 or 7 times

did we do something wrong ? probably but should any class solo be able to do that?

the story..
2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout starts shooting at it merc hits it friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health

second try...

2 infi`s PA bone commander scout shoots bonedancer merc hits bonedancer friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health..

3rd try

2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout shoots healer pet merc hits healer pet friar hits bone commander

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health...


notice a pattern here? everyone knows BD`s are over powered in RvR it`s a fact not an opinion please someone pass over the nerf bat

why don`t necro`s get a 4 second lifetap insta?
why don`t cabby`s?
why don`t sorcerors?

in fact why don`t any of the above get nuke range instas that do 300+ damage? because if they had that everyone would be screaming over powered

PvP is not the issue of this thread according to Balbor! just wanted to point that out! :great:
I bet there are plenty other "Nerf BDs" threads out there.

 

[Roalith]

Now, I know Thidranki isn't endgame RvR. So flame away on that point if you feel like.

However, having been soloing in Thid a lot with my scout, I've seen a fair few solo Bonedancers, and often thought 'why not' in a moment of boredom. This is usually how it goes...

Never bother with Critshots, not like anyone stands still long enough for you to use it. Line up normal shot on bonedancer, and hope you can do more damage faster than the casting-while-running-perma-MOC-healer pets can heal him... oh no wait, after your first shot which broke the BT, you get insta'd and interrupted! Okay, better run away... oh bugger, the BD is running after me... oh and there I got insta'd again... oh and again... oh and again... oh crap, I'm dead.

OR

Line up shot on fossil commander, and pray you can outdamage the casting-while-running-perma-MOC-healer pets... oh bugger, second shot and I've been interrupted again. Better run away... etc etc etc.

Even if you do make it away fast enough to stealth and get out of range of the BD shooting lightning bolts out of his arse, you get pets seeing through stealth chasing you around.

The only time you can ever successfully kill a bonedancer is A) if his attention is elsewhere, IE on your nearby realmmates, B) with good CC, or C) if he gets throughly and utterly zerged.

BDs are, from an opposing realm's point of view, frankly sick in RvR uke:

 

[Sharma]

I can remember my first encounter with Mill, me and Danyan were messing about in emain when we came across him, we got our arse kicked if i remember rightly, then we had to get the help of 2 other people to take care of the pets :\

i tried taking him out firectly, but the healer pets kept putting him back to full health while he runs around lifetapping and his tank pets twatting me for about 150 damage every 3 secs

 

[thorungla]

Originally posted by case-rigantis
1 BD took out 5 level 50 albs today 6 or 7 times

the story..

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health

Its non factual, in your words 'stories' like this that bore the heck out of forums.

So in 10 lifetaps, a bonedancer killed 5 level 50's thats 2 LT's per enemy. Im sorry to say it but I have maybe a 1 in 2 chance of surviving just one infil attacking my BD'er (perhaps I only ever face buffwhores and you 2 had no buffs at all) But to survive 2 infils plus a scout at the same time is a joke.

Also there is the major issue of power. I'd be lucky to kill 3 or 4 people before running out of power to cast my LT and thats with mcl 2 and raging power.

Prove me wrong and show some logs of these fights we all keep hearing about. Until such time as I either achieve this sort of victory myself or see it happen, its just another story based on over exagerated events. I suppose there are of course BD'er buffwhores too, perhaps I'll give that a go sometime if I can get 2 clients to run simultaneously without massive FPS loss.

 

[geysor]

Last week I killed 2 infils who jumped my BD together. I got lucky as I had full power, and I had remembered to cast my bladeturn (NERF BLADETURNS!). I survived with 1% HP.

A few weeks ago though, I killed a group of 5 Hibs who attacked me one at a time. How civilised of them

So it is possible with a bit of luck, but that doesn't mean that BDs need to be nerfed though. I've lost count of the number of times I've been one-shot by archers or infils. I've got 510 HP unbuffed, which is why I NEED my lifedrain. Without a lifedrain BDs would be unplayable.

The day Mythic listen to assholes like Balbor, I will quit.

NERF CLERICS!

 

[Shike]

Originally posted by case-rigantis
1 BD took out 5 level 50 albs today 6 or 7 times

did we do something wrong ? probably but should any class solo be able to do that?

the story..
2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout starts shooting at it merc hits it friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health

second try...

2 infi`s PA bone commander scout shoots bonedancer merc hits bonedancer friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health..

3rd try

2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout shoots healer pet merc hits healer pet friar hits bone commander

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health...


notice a pattern here? everyone knows BD`s are over powered in RvR it`s a fact not an opinion please someone pass over the nerf bat

why don`t necro`s get a 4 second lifetap insta?
why don`t cabby`s?
why don`t sorcerors?

in fact why don`t any of the above get nuke range instas that do 300+ damage? because if they had that everyone would be screaming over powered

hehe yep, You must have done something seriosly wrong tbh, 2 infs that sync PAs along with a scout should kill anything quite fast including a BD

To me it sounds like all those stories of Zerkers oneshotting heroes and whatnot all the time

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by case-rigantis
1 BD took out 5 level 50 albs today 6 or 7 times

did we do something wrong ? probably but should any class solo be able to do that?

the story..
2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout starts shooting at it merc hits it friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health

second try...

2 infi`s PA bone commander scout shoots bonedancer merc hits bonedancer friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health..

3rd try

2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout shoots healer pet merc hits healer pet friar hits bone commander

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health...


notice a pattern here? everyone knows BD`s are over powered in RvR it`s a fact not an opinion please someone pass over the nerf bat

why don`t necro`s get a 4 second lifetap insta?
why don`t cabby`s?
why don`t sorcerors?

in fact why don`t any of the above get nuke range instas that do 300+ damage? because if they had that everyone would be screaming over powered

ok, I was originally gonna reply to another post, but then I came over this fucking GEM.

1 BD took out 5 level 50 albs today 6 or 7 times

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, oh sorry...no wait HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


If 5!! albs MANAGE to die, 6!!!! or 7!!! times from ONE fricking bonedancer, omg. I cant grasp how you MANAGED to pull that shit off.

Ok, first time, you were busy fighting something else (anything, PLEASE tell me you were unaware) everyone jumps the bd like moths to a porchlight, the bd kills you. Next time you meet him, what should be your IMMEDIATE fucking reaction? (No, zerging him with 10fg's is NOT the apparent solution here, though it might work) How about....<drumwhirl> Try something else ey?
Try kill his pets first? something like that? (not gonna tell you the answer here, sorry if I exhaust your braincell)

Then, after 5 times of throwing yourself at him, with... dont think I can stress this enough THREE FUCKING PETS HEALING HIM

When he comes a 6th time, you STILL fucking hop on him like lemmings over a cliff. (yes I know you tried different """""tactics"""" none of them are right FYI)


<flicks up remington>

He killed 5 albs in 40secs?
With the best lifetap, delving at a whooping 123dmg, which will cap out on MAX 369dmg. You having ATLEAST 16% body resist here(friar can be specced out of his ass) he spent 10 of those nukes to kill 5 of you, so that if he in some amazing way capped on all his nukes, you had either (if he got 50% crit on EVERY single nuke) 5535hps between the lot of you, with friar healing. or 3690 if he didnt crit. and then ofc, the bluecon commander from hell pummeling you for what? 200ish dmg every 5-6secs?

Wow, pretty STUNNING amount of hps? (With IP used at 1hp I have about 4600 hps)

You claim that the healers had time to heal BOTH the commander, from 2xPA AND the BD being pummeled by merc&scout. You know, the greycon healerpets that only start healing when he's under 50% or so(dunno havent played one)



And for your information, it is very possible for other classes to beat 5v1 odds (buffs is normally the factor here) but I wont go into that now.


In conclusion:

You are retards and you are noobs, you got severely owned, not once, not twice, but "6-7 times" and for your information, solo (as in 1) assassins that have tried&failed a couple of times against bd's and that actually have a thing called brains, logic and reasoning take out bd's all the time.
Even I, a fricking zerker since release, borrowed my friends gimpy 5-spec with 39+4LA, 36+6Sword, 44env and 34+8CS, dropped wpns and epicarmor almost beat a good lvl 50 bonedancer with sc'ed equip in a duel the first time I tried, both unbuffed, no tactics cept from PA+cd on bd. (almost as in dot not resisted and he'd been dead)

Cry more noob, you got severely owned, repeatedly. Bd's dont need a nerf.




And to the two ns's here:
If you Pa'd for that little he was buffed, im 99% sure of it, and lets just say you should experiment a bit with different tactics on him.

there are 3 keys for an assassin to take down any bonedancer 1v1, but just telling em would be too easy wouldnt it?

 

[Sharma]

Originally posted by geysor

A few weeks ago though, I killed a group of 5 Hibs who attacked me one at a time. How civilised of them

 

[Nonnier]

its only 2 healer pets, unless u use a low spec 1

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

This thread rocks. If ignorance is bliss then there are a lot of happy people around.

 

[Nonnier]

oh...and that story with the 2 infil + scout is impossable.

even a troll with 1000+ hits couldn't survive 2 infils and a scout

don't make stories up....unless u got a log

 

[old.Tohtori]

I once killed, with my BD two groups of albs:

stealther
2 tanks
2 casters

2 stealthers
tank
2 casters

The fact that they actually tried to fight my uber munster BD was a joke, they didn't have a "fighting" chance to survive.

Then i remembered that i was only level 12 with my BD and woke up.

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

Originally posted by case-rigantis
1 BD took out 5 level 50 albs today 6 or 7 times

did we do something wrong ? probably but should any class solo be able to do that?

the story..
2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout starts shooting at it merc hits it friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health

second try...

2 infi`s PA bone commander scout shoots bonedancer merc hits bonedancer friar heals

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health..

3rd try

2 infi`s PA bonedancer scout shoots healer pet merc hits healer pet friar hits bone commander

40 seconds later all albs dead BD on full health...


notice a pattern here? everyone knows BD`s are over powered in RvR it`s a fact not an opinion please someone pass over the nerf bat

why don`t necro`s get a 4 second lifetap insta?
why don`t cabby`s?
why don`t sorcerors?

in fact why don`t any of the above get nuke range instas that do 300+ damage? because if they had that everyone would be screaming over powered

and me and my L10 buffbot soloed the dragon and legion at the same time.... but it did take me 25 seconds mind you.. I must have been having a bad day

You sir are a Moron... Or a pathelogical liar.. or both i suppose

Would your group of 5 L50s like to come fight my group 7 times please.. could do with the free realm points

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Danyan
Hey could be worse, they could be a caster with no spec damage spell, like a mentalism mentalist...

or an earth wizard/theurgist

rar! 3-page-too-late-reply-man strikes again!

 

[Flimgoblin]

I see a lot of you are missing Balbor's point

The excuse given for the bonedancer having a range 1500 instant-lifetap on a 4s timer (it was changed to castable then changed back again) is that they were getting too much aggro in pve... (I think it was the BD not the healer pets - as they upped the aggro generated by healing pets in a later patch)

so he's trying to point out that that's a stupid excuse and offering amnesia as a way to fix it...

Now of course this would have the unfortunate side effect of nerfing the tank-mages-with-pets in RvR...

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

not missing his point
because he does not have one..

it is one of the reasons why Supp BDs have LD but not the only one..

I think armsmen should loose all spec in weapons and be given a insta aggro spell for 10000 aggro points so they never loose aggro in PvE..

like does that sound stupid to you or what??

 

[logan6]

"Without a lifedrain BDs would be unplayable"

not on a 4 second timer. Then again, how come there are lvl 50 Bone Army Bonedancers? Face it, its overpowered the way it is! Reavers need the LT too, but it has a reasonable timer.


As to tactics facing BD´s, we dindt give up after one try. I heard the commander gets healed first, so one of us PAéd the commander using DoT, then attacked BD. The other NS used disease poison to cut heals in half, then switching to third weapon for debuff/DoT. It all wont help. Every fight (4 is was) ended with two dead NS and one kobold BD laughing his ass off, quickly being healed to full health after the fight.

We also tried to down the commander first, be hes much tougher than the BD himself, and the pets get even more time healing him. Even if we take out the healing pets first, and even if it worked, the BD zaps ur ass for 304 hits every 4 seconds. My NS sustains 4 of these. Oh wait, 3, because the commander hits for 100+ every 3 secondes too.

Sorry but theres no other class out there that uber in 1vs1 combat (melee or at range, doesnt matter), thats just not good, period. Either cut the range, or up the timer. This way you cant beat a BD solo if you arent buffed through the roof.

Damn i tried so many different things, to keep the healers healing someone else than the bd... like Perf&Dot the Commander, shout at one healer, switch and disease BD... nothing works. Those 2-3 healers are just too many to deal with solo.

500 hits is a joke. You dont have optimized equipment then.

 

[Kerram Darktyde]

around 20-26% for my Slash/thrust resists so er not maxed but high...

I cant believe that 2 good assassins cant take down a BD..
I have heard of 1 assassin doing it so you must be doing something wrong...

I doubt BDs will get nerfed coz skilled players seem to be able to take them out as easy as any other caster..

been in a group with 2 Supp BDs and we got killed by a some albs that had 3 more people than us. if Supp BDs were as powerful as all you whiners complain we should have won easy....

seeing as a Supp BD supposedly can take out 2-5 enemy with ease....

sounds like i was owned whining to me....

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Just out of interest, what armour does a reaver wear?

Cheers.