Who did you vote for?

ECA

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Yuck, I don't normally get into politics online but here goes.

Firstly, I detest the current political system in the UK.
We have an unelected upper house and the countries head of state ( ok, technically the queen but in real terms our prime minister ), is not directly elected.
We have an electoral system that distorts the populations general view based on constituencies ( of which the boundaries need a MAJOR redesign ) - I believe the current boundaries are still in place from 1991 and there has been a long term shift of labour voters into conservative constituencies and the fact that the conservative base is more spread out rather than being in localised clusters which leads to a roughly 10% swing in favour of labour.

Anyway, I voted conservative at both local and national level.
I voted conservative at a local level because the candidate is a well known member of the local community and puts a lot of effort in, and a lot of his own time - he really gives a shit about the community.

At the national level I voted conservative because I live in a relatively safe labour seat,
I was tempted to vote lib dem but the candidates election propaganda was highly negative and was basically full of attack politics on contrast with the conservatives positive crap ( hey its all bullshit, but there is no room for attack politics imho ).

While I am more in line with the lib dems as a whole I cannot vote for a candidate who I feel has a low enough moral standing to put out the sort of negative campaign material that was put out in this case.

As for why I didn't vote labour?
Whether you like or dislike the conservatives for their past stretch in power they fixed a lot of long term problems with the country despite the short term negative political currency. Maggie thatcher had balls of steel to do that and I have a huge respect for her on the economic side ( although she could have been a bit nicer on the social policy side ) - I full well understand I wasn't old enough to understand at the time, but I have read around the period quite a lot.

The current government have managed to fuckup the economy so over the next decade expect interest rates to double /joy.

In economic terms the current labour government might as well be called "Thatcher-Lite"

Not only that, I disagree with their running of public services and their falsified statistical meaningless ( perfect example - Set Target: All doctors appointments within 24hrs - solution? no appointments outside 48hrs - target met, propaganda readied ) which is widespread across all sectors.
In the NHS the dates at which the statistics are sampled are announced in advance so of course more staff will be on and everything will look rosier.

My sister is a pharmacist and has often complained that patients are seen in certain orders to fulfil government targets rather than patient need.

On a social policy level I also disagree with the current policy of top up & tuition fees.
Students from poor families who cannot afford to go to higher education as a result of this, it basically keeps the middle classes happy as less contention from places from those lower down the social order, they are more likely to be able to pay and more likely to be happier with this system even though it results in some short term costs for them, their childen are usually the ones paying off the student loans.
Not only that but in their old manifesto they stated they would not introduce top up fees.

Iraq War - Yes it was probably a good thing Saddam got removed, but why wait so long after the first Gulf war to do it? The false link in the US between Al Queda was more than enough of an excuse and for extending US influence in the region.

As a result we dont have the power to intervene in areas we should be intervening in such as Darfour, Myanmar, the Palestine/Israel situation, the DRC, and the Côte d'Ivoire to name but a few places where killing and/or large scale repression is taking place on a much more significant scale than ever occured in Iraq.

Labours standing on replacing retiring MPs is terrible as well. They basically appoint retiring MPs to quangos post-retirement in return for the MP retiring past the cut off date that the labour party has on the local party appointing the new candidate, ie the candidate is chosen by the labour party HQ and is typically a long standing "Special Advisor".

Anyway there you go ^^
 

Tilda

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ECA said:
Firstly, I detest the current political system in the UK.
We have an unelected upper house and the countries head of state ( ok, technically the queen but in real terms our prime minister ), is not directly elected.


I'm loving this thread! :D

Damini, i'm going to type a bit reply out to you when I can get my notes out and have cites for everything etc, I'll try to do this tomorrow, I'm going out tonight so no time!

ECA, 2 questions about the first bit i've quoted.
Firstly, what is so bad about an unelected upper chamber? Their job is to scrutinise legislation, by not needing election, you allow experienced professionals who acctually care, and have a clue about the area the legislation is supposed to cover. The HC is crap at scrutinising legislation in reality, ok they may have a good general idea about what they want, but realisticly, how many members of the HC have a clue about the Water Act 1989/2003, or the Law of Property Act 1925?
Its the people, in the HL with professional insight, who acctualy scrutinise the legislation and make sure it dosnt violate human rights, have huge loopholes, and is acctually enforceable. For a prime example of this, look at how many times the 2005 Anti Terorism Act was "pinged" back to the HC from the HL.

By making the upper chamber elected, you'ld lose a huge proportion of professional experience that is vitally relevant to the scrutiny of legislation.

The Queen isn't elected, but has no power, she's a rubber stamp.
I sympathise with the whole party leader issue, although, Tony was "elected" as a member of the labour party, it just happens that he's the top member of said party. However its not like this is any big supprise to you, you knew Tony was head of Labour before they were elected, and if you voted for them, you knew if they came in, he would be PM.
On a side note, Tony was "elected" to the position of PM, however only by members of his own party, not as I suspect you mean by the general public.

I'm not going to get into the wholle FPTP, PR and STV argument here, thats a huge can of worms. :p

ECA said:
On a social policy level I also disagree with the current policy of top up & tuition fees.
Students from poor families who cannot afford to go to higher education as a result of this, it basically keeps the middle classes happy as less contention from places from those lower down the social order, they are more likely to be able to pay and more likely to be happier with this system even though it results in some short term costs for them, their childen are usually the ones paying off the student loans.

I disagree with you here, a person from a poor family with acctually get £2500~ more than someone comming from a family who dosn't get the income assessed part of the student loan.
I know many people who dont get the extra part of the loan get help from their parents, however not all of them do.
My parents give me no extra money on top of the loan, I know people who come from poor familys who can "live it up" while i'm strapped for cash. The system is, in my opinion weighted vastly towards the poorer students who get the full loan.
On your second point, why would the children of poorer familys not be paying of the loan too? Both me, and the poorer people I know, and the richer people I know, will all have to pay off our loans assuming we start earning over the threashold; I dont see how your last sentance has any relevance. It seems to imply the children of poorer familes won't be paying off their loans, which I simply dont think is true.

Tilda
 

old.user4556

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blah blah blah

Sorry to flame, but this thread is so full of fucking hot air - this thread should be awarded the monumental fuckwittery award.

To all those who seem to be such an expert on the future, can you tell me next weeks lottery numbers please?

k thx ta!
 

nath

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Big G said:
To all those who seem to be such an expert on the future, can you tell me next weeks lottery numbers please?

Uh, so people aren't allowed to have opinions?

I know, scrap democracy because people simily have no clue about politics!*







*only slightly sarcastic :\
 

old.user4556

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Opinions are one thing, but people ramming your throat with how DOOMED the country is because Labour got in - that's different.
 

nath

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I don't see any throat ramming going on - people just have strong opinions on certain subjects. Shock horror - politics is one of them. If you want to take offense I think that's no ones fault but your own.
 

old.user4556

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I'm not taking offence in the slightest, not one bit; just commenting on the hot air.
 

nath

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No more than on any other threads if you ask me...
 

old.user4556

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It's on my new manifesto - fighting for non hot air threads.

That does mean the forums will be empty mind... ;)
 

Ormorof

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DaGaffer said:
Edit. It gets worse; in England, Labour actually had less votes than the Tories: Labour on 7,959,919 and Conservative on 7,986,393. How fucking insane is that??

but then again Tony Blair is prime minister of the United Kingdom, not just england ;)
 

throdgrain

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Big G said:
Opinions are one thing, but people ramming your throat with how DOOMED the country is because Labour got in - that's different.

And its also utter bollocks.
 

leggy

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throdgrain said:
And its also utter bollocks.

Was that not his point?

I have to agree with G though on the most part. It's like the 3 topics never to discuss at a party:

1) religion
2) politics
3) whether or not your wife still gives head.

Everyone is always wrong.

In all honesty I don't think any of it matters one little bit. Any of it. Any.
 

DaGaffer

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Ormorof said:
but then again Tony Blair is prime minister of the United Kingdom, not just england ;)

The difference being, unlike the Welsh and Scots, we don't have a say on English issues. I dunno, what was the fucking point of Culloden? :D
 

Tom

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Oops, Damian Hinds, not Damian Hirst :/
 

nath

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You ballsed up your quote tags!

Ha-ha! </nelson>


</pointless post>
 

Trem

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leggy said:
1) religion
2) politics
3) whether or not your wife still gives head.

1) Whats that?
2) Fuckers
3) Whats that?


























:(
 

throdgrain

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ECA said:
Maggie thatcher had balls of steel to do that and I have a huge respect for her on the economic side ( although she could have been a bit nicer on the social policy side ) - I full well understand I wasn't old enough to understand at the time, but I have read around the period quite a lot.

^^

LMFAO. Sorry, but really.

I refuse to post any more on this subject, but suffice to say that statement appears , with the greatest respect, to have been made without even the slightest consideration of anything that happened during the tories spell in power.
If you had any idea what actually happened Im sure you wouldnt say that.
 

DaGaffer

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throdgrain said:
LMFAO. Sorry, but really.

I refuse to post any more on this subject, but suffice to say that statement appears , with the greatest respect, to have been made without even the slightest consideration of anything that happened during the tories spell in power.
If you had any idea what actually happened Im sure you wouldnt say that.

I started my first job in the early eighties, but I remember the seventies, so I do have a pretty good idea of what happened, and, ECA's right, she was a good thing overall. The Tories were in power too long, but we needed to go through some economic pain. We weren't called the "sick man of Europe" for nothing...
 

ECA

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As I said, yes in the short term it caused a lot of problems but the UK had a lot of inherent economic long term problems which she fixed, yes on a personal up close level she caused a lot of hardship, but on a long term economic level what she did was a good thing or we would be looking at a much shitter economy right now.
 

SawTooTH

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Now the cabinets been selected anyone got opinions about that. What Ive fuming about is that Blunketts back. He's one of the main reasons I changed from Labour to Liberal with his stripping away of civil liberties. Now hes got Pensions. Thats probably predictable really as he can probably do more damage to peoples futures there.
 

Skyler

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I think the entire country should stick to the never give a party more than two straight terms in government regardless of what they say or do. The changeup would help to fix things a lot more.

Oh and stop this whole "I voted Labour because they have given us a stable economy" crap because it really is... crap :p

We all know had the Conservatives been victorious the same people who said that would then say "The Con's have screwed up the economy" after having them in power for a year even when they just inherited it from Labour.
 

throdgrain

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Skyler said:
Oh and stop this whole "I voted Labour because they have given us a stable economy" crap because it really is... crap :p

I meant not to respond any more, but really. You are talking out of your ARSE. We had two recessions under the Tories. This isnt a fable you berk, this is what actually happened. 3 million unemployed is what happened.
Just before the second recession they had a chance to hold it back, by increasing interest rates. But there was an election due, so what did they do? They lowered rates.
What happened? They got back in. And we had a recession. Suprise.
And as for this "o they gave the Labour party a good economy" , well , even if I did agree with that, which I dont, in 8 years they would have fucked it up again by now, possibly even twice.
Finito.


edit sorry to seem abusive, thats not my intention, but christ, wake up and smell the roses. I can only assume the reason you talk like that is you were prolly a child when it was all going on...
 

old.user4556

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What about the utterly scandalous interest rates under the tories, what about the sudden boom and bust of the housing market? What about the sell off of council houses that led to the housing market spiral out of control?
 

throdgrain

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Or the fact that theres no council houses left meaning that no one can get anywhere to live? When I was 16 having a council house DIDNT mark you out as a candidate for a visit to Trisha in the morning. It was plain normal to have one. Now theres so few left that the only people who can get enough "points" to get one are 17 year old unmarried mothers (who's boyfriends move in as soon as the council arnt looking) and assylum seekers.
Yes, and I bought my council house. They told us the money would go straight back to building more. Did it? Did it fuck :/
 

Paradroid

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It's all a bunch of bollocks really innit? Vote for one shower of pricks, or, another shower of pricks. Career politicians will always look out for themselves and their backers, not the electorate - I'm just waiting for the MPs to vote themselves another whopping pay rise.

:(

Bring back the real Labour Party! This New shit's a joke, and it's time people realised they're just Tory with a slight hint of a social conscience. The economies fuked, just look at what's happened with the housing market - the rich get richer ...

Vote communist at the next election!

:clap:
 

old.user4556

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Paradroid said:
just look at what's happened with the housing market - the rich get richer ...

This is indeed true and i agree.

You only have to watch any "house buying" programme on the TV to see for yourself. It all hinges on "how much money can we rip out the person buying this, lets inflate the price!"

Take my situation. I'm 24 - finished my graduate scheme (IT), earn a good above average wage, no debts and I can only just get an affordable mortgage for a minky, 2 bedroom, mid-terraced ex-council in a "poorer" area with no bathroom.

Perhaps it's just the way it has to be, or perhaps the houses are grossly overpriced.

My only option is to live with my parents and save up for an even bigger deposit, which I expect will take 2-3 years. My mates are all in the same situation, skilled professionals buggered over by a massively inflated housing market.
 

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