Where did the pop go? ... oh yea... lich king *sigh*

[Frozenheart]

then how comes bush got elected TWICE ?!?:lol:

not sure what american politics have to do with a game ...

 

[pikeh]

Don't worry Muy, I got the joke and it was pretty good

 

[mooSe_]

ah the good old comparison thread...

 

[Bugz]

not sure what american politics have to do with a game ...

rofl

 

[Tallen]

then how comes bush got elected TWICE ?!?:lol:

Did you see the other guy?

 

[Ctuchik]

No I haven't forgot what an awsome game WoW was, cuz' it never was. DAoC was and still are the best game on the market PvP wise. I played WoW for several years and it never once came to the same standard at DAoC.

no, not when it came to pvp, but WoW was never meant to be a pvp oriented game for end game so you cant really compare the 2 seriously because they were aiming at 2 totally different playstyles.

if you ARE going to compare the 2, compare them from a pve point of view.

because even if DAoC is all about rvr now it started off with pretty much just as shit pvp as WoW have now. only difference is that Mythic actually planned DaoC to be a pvp game in the end while blizzard added the BG's because they had to. and are now slowly moving towards a more open pvp experience with designated pvp zones that doesent include queueing..

when it comes to pve theres nothing out there that even remotely comes close to what WoW offers, even before the first major instance patch in WoW their pve were way way WAY better then what DAoC ever had.

yes the game was designed with addons in mind, but even when you are running 100+ addons, the top tier instances can still be a fucking pain in the neck, even if you DO know whats gonna happen beforehand because theres so much random stuff going on, with the bosses randomly clearing aggrolist, random tracking fireballs of McDoom and stuff like that.

WoW is a pve game with added pvp, DAoC was a pvp game with forced pve.

 

[00dave]

Ofc it's my opinion. I write what I think, not what other thinks. And yes it does, for me DAoC is the better game.

And you can't really say millions of ppl perfer WoW over DAoC either since they have never tried out DAoC. I'm convinced that more ppl would choose DAoC over WoW if they had the same amount of players and both were run by Blizzard. That's only speculations ofc (apparently I have to point that out ) since noone will ever know for sure.



Just as you told me, your opinion, not mine :>

The fact that you try to pass off your opinion as fact pissed me off. Yours and my opinion don't matter to game developers, the numbers are what are important.
Personally I doubt most WoW players could stand DAoC. PVE is WoWs strongest point and is what makes it so popular, it's pvp is similar to WAR but it's pve is still second to none.

 

[Spookie]

I'm convinced that more ppl would choose DAoC over WoW if they had the same amount of players and both were run by Blizzard. That's only speculations ofc (apparently I have to point that out ) since noone will ever know for sure.

Wouldn't happen.

I tried to get my sister and her BF in to WAR. Their first complaint was the PvE was poor. Within a week they were back on WoW. The majority just doesn't like RvR focused games. Each to their own though.

 

[~Latency~]

Wouldn't happen.

I tried to get my sister and her BF in to WAR. Their first complaint was the PvE was poor. Within a week they were back on WoW. The majority just doesn't like RvR focused games. Each to their own though.

just because WAR is a pvp focused game doesn't mean that the pve has to be terrible...

 

[Zebolt]

The fact that you try to pass off your opinion as fact pissed me off. Yours and my opinion don't matter to game developers, the numbers are what are important.
Personally I doubt most WoW players could stand DAoC. PVE is WoWs strongest point and is what makes it so popular, it's pvp is similar to WAR but it's pve is still second to none.

If you read my opinion as facts that's not my fault really. I only say what I think, I've never once mentioned anything about facts.

And yes WAR's PvP is similar to WoW's that's why it's crap atm :>

 

[Zebolt]

Wouldn't happen.

I tried to get my sister and her BF in to WAR. Their first complaint was the PvE was poor. Within a week they were back on WoW. The majority just doesn't like RvR focused games. Each to their own though.

First of all I said DAoC not WAR.

And well obviously. You can't expect ppl to like DAoC from lvling a toon. It's the RvR that made DAoC and if they don't try that ofc they won't like it?

And I'm not saying everyone like PvP more than PvE. But I think the majority of ppl still wanna be max lvl and try out their character against other players.

 

[Zebolt]

if you ARE going to compare the 2, compare them from a pve point of view.

Well how's that fair then? If you should compare the two you should take into concideration both PvE and PvP. The game experience as a whole. And I had way more fun RvRing in DAoC than I ever had PvEing in WoW which was always boring to me.

WoW is a pve game with added pvp, DAoC was a pvp game with forced pve.

And that is exactly why I think DAoC is the better game.

 

[mooSe_]

PvE is generally not as interesting as PvP imo because I play online games in order to interact/team up with/compete against other humans. In PvE im getting 2 out of 3 of those things whereas in PvP im getting all 3.

 

[klasa]

 

[ramathorn]

People are still using the DAoC as the yard stick to measure other games by (and I agree) - kinda shows how much of a failure WaR has been.

 

[Zede]

You say that, but (a) whether you want PvE or PvP gear, the mechanism is the same - rinse/repeat the same activity an enormous number of times - and (b) I notice you say your tier 6 gear will see you up to level 80 raiding, you don't deny that raiding is the end game.

I am no expert on WoW, I'll admit, but is not "raiding" a short way of saying "grinding faction, then grinding raid dungeons"? Beg your pardon if I have misunderstood this, I got bored of WoW almost the moment I entered my first level 70 instance and never progress past that.

I got to 70 in WoW, played for a year and went to a raid dungeon ONCE.

like it or lump it, wow has a 1000 things to do at L70, which is why I quit, being forced to pve in all sorts of annoying ways just so i could pvp.

 

[Svartmetall]

...wow has a 1000 things to do at L70

The real problem with WoW is that at lvl 70 there is only 1 thing to do, but you have to do it 1,000 times.

 

[Tallen]

The real problem with WoW is that at lvl 70 there is only 1 thing to do, but you have to do it 1,000 times.

Have a cookie

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Have a cookie

He hasn't got enough faction rep for the cookie yet.

 

[Aada]

I got to 70 in WoW, played for a year and went to a raid dungeon ONCE.

like it or lump it, wow has a 1000 things to do at L70, which is why I quit, being forced to pve in all sorts of annoying ways just so i could pvp.

QFT


Raided once in my whole time playing WoW since release and i didn't like it so i don't do it i prefer 5-10man raids and even 10 man raids is a rarity for me.

Yet i still cannot find enough time when i'm playing to do the things i wanna do.

 

[Boggy]

What you just said speaks whole volumes to me about the WoW mentality. If it's only 5 or 10 man it isn't even raiding. Despite the fact that it involves hours stuck in an instance laboriously making your way through the million identical set pieces to the boss, which is generally killed using some tried and tested formula.

Sounds to me like these "1000 things to do" are probably, crafting, gathering, BGs, arena and dungeons (of varying size).

There is a way you can avoid PvE in WoW. You can do WoW PvP, and what exactly is the focus of WoW PvP? Loot. Accumulate honour points, buy loot. Accumulate arena points, buy loot. It's a treadmill. And the treadmill exists because Blizzard said to themselves "How can we keep people playing in the endgame?" The answer to this question should always be "If they have fun when they log on, they will keep coming back," but instead the answer we get from Blizzard is "Give them new targets to aim for."

 

[Kinag]

Did karazhan twice and the first time I enjoyed it as it was new, the second time was a loot run. Seen it all before, same tactic as last time, same outcome.

I prefer when things aren't so obvious, which is why I prefer rvr.

 

[Tallen]

What you just said speaks whole volumes to me about the WoW mentality. If it's only 5 or 10 man it isn't even raiding. Despite the fact that it involves hours stuck in an instance laboriously making your way through the million identical set pieces to the boss, which is generally killed using some tried and tested formula.

Sounds to me like these "1000 things to do" are probably, crafting, gathering, BGs, arena and dungeons (of varying size).

There is a way you can avoid PvE in WoW. You can do WoW PvP, and what exactly is the focus of WoW PvP? Loot. Accumulate honour points, buy loot. Accumulate arena points, buy loot. It's a treadmill. And the treadmill exists because Blizzard said to themselves "How can we keep people playing in the endgame?" The answer to this question should always be "If they have fun when they log on, they will keep coming back," but instead the answer we get from Blizzard is "Give them new targets to aim for."

All true, but it can be inferred from the success of the game that this is what the vast majority of modern mmo gamers seem too want.

 

[Boandk]

Maybe if GOA started to advertise for the game and dont make the same mistake they did with DAoC then maybe we will see some of those Games Workshop fans notice the game.

 

[Calaen]

Tbh I thought that was what EA would bring to the table.

I expected a big push from them over the Christmas to get the little games workshop kids hooked over the Christmas, when their parents will gladly let them sit at a computer to keep them out of the way

 

[Andrilyn]

All true, but it can be inferred from the success of the game that this is what the vast majority of modern mmo gamers seem too want.

It's also the publics lack of knowledge about other games, before WoW was released I couldn't turn on the TV without there being atleast 1 WoW ad on there, Never seen a WAR ad or a DAoC one ever.
Also alot of people I spoke to on WoW said that it was their first MMORPG, Blizzard knows how important commercials are and I bet if you would hold a local poll over 75% of the people wouldn't even know what Warhammer is or that it's actually a game on the PC (if they know the tabletop game).
It's like Dutch beer, it sucks but we know how to market it thus alot of people know about it and possibly buy it, people won't buy a game they never heard from atleast not the avarage Joe.

On the WoW POV I got to agree with Boggy, the WoW system is such a treadmill, farming the same mobs/bosses over and over, week after week to get some better gear to do the exact same thing the next week.. and don't get me started about WoW PvP / Arena's because three words come to mind when I think about that; "Class Balance" "Gear".
There is a reason for instance that all high end tournaments only have Druid healers never a Priest or Shammy or something else than a Druid..

But in the end I think that it's just advertisement and people's unawareness that made WoW so big, it's like watching TV on a black and white TV not knowing you could be watching it in colour.

 

[Raven]

There is a way you can avoid PvE in WoW. You can do WoW PvP, and what exactly is the focus of WoW PvP? Loot. Accumulate honour points, buy loot. Accumulate arena points, buy loot. It's a treadmill. And the treadmill exists because Blizzard said to themselves "How can we keep people playing in the endgame?" The answer to this question should always be "If they have fun when they log on, they will keep coming back," but instead the answer we get from Blizzard is "Give them new targets to aim for."

Feel free to point out where Warhammer is different

In WoW you gain either honour points or arena points with which you buy equipment, in WAR you farm renown to earn realm levels which unlock new gear to buy.

In Wow if PvP is not your thing then you can PvE, crafting, collecting mats, playing mr economics with the auction house (which is a game in itself) raiding, do some five man instances, 10 man instances etc etc. If there was nothing to do then it wouldn't have 11 million customers would it?

Or ofc you can play War and do scenario after scenario after scenario. There is no crafting, no economy a broken loot table and dull scenarios, it feels as though they had a "that will do" attitude throughout the whole project, just because that wolley mark jacobs thought something was good then that is what he forced upon everyone else.

The point is, they have made Warhammer near identical to WoW in every department, except there isn't as much of it and what there is is of lesser quality. They could have made it into something special but instead they have tried to copy others and failed. Not to mention the fact that they have no idea how to balance the game or make it more fun to play, they (Mythic and GOA) are unprofessional and most of the time just come across as amateurs who are way out of their depth.

 

[Aada]

It's also the publics lack of knowledge about other games, before WoW was released I couldn't turn on the TV without there being atleast 1 WoW ad on there, Never seen a WAR ad or a DAoC one ever.
Also alot of people I spoke to on WoW said that it was their first MMORPG, Blizzard knows how important commercials are and I bet if you would hold a local poll over 75% of the people wouldn't even know what Warhammer is or that it's actually a game on the PC (if they know the tabletop game).
It's like Dutch beer, it sucks but we know how to market it thus alot of people know about it and possibly buy it, people won't buy a game they never heard from atleast not the avarage Joe.

On the WoW POV I got to agree with Boggy, the WoW system is such a treadmill, farming the same mobs/bosses over and over, week after week to get some better gear to do the exact same thing the next week.. and don't get me started about WoW PvP / Arena's because three words come to mind when I think about that; "Class Balance" "Gear".
There is a reason for instance that all high end tournaments only have Druid healers never a Priest or Shammy or something else than a Druid..

But in the end I think that it's just advertisement and people's unawareness that made WoW so big, it's like watching TV on a black and white TV not knowing you could be watching it in colour.

The scenario grind in WAR isn't a treadmill?

Nobody PVE's in WAR because it sucks and the only thing left to do is grind that scenario for the 50th time that day.

Even the crafting isn't worth mentioning.

 

[Raven]

Did karazhan twice and the first time I enjoyed it as it was new, the second time was a loot run. Seen it all before, same tactic as last time, same outcome.

I prefer when things aren't so obvious, which is why I prefer rvr.

I did a scenario in War a few times too, first time was "this is quite good" by the Nth time it got kind of old pretty fast. I ventured out into the open rvr area and found it was empty, not 1 single enemy in nearly an hour of searching.

Too many shitty scenarios, not enough RvR for a real pvp game. As i said before, its just a poor mans WoW.

 

[Chronictank]

That's just it, for some unknown reason, they don't realise. They run the same dungeon every night for weeks just to change a bit of faction or earn whatever points their guild gives them so one day they might get a new imaginary piece of armour, and the whole time all they think is "Won't it be great once I finish my suit and can kick arse in PvP". Wonder how many people were 1 piece away from finishing the suits from TBC when WotLK was released and made them all obsolete.

I really dont understand people like you, wow was never advertised as a pvp-centric game so why should it be?
People very obviously buy the game because they like the pve, so "grinding the same dungeon" as you put it is what they want to do as to them it is fun

Digressing from the fact you dont have to pve at all in wow, you can grind away at scenarios and buy honour gear with the points. Sound familiar? yep exactly like it is in WAR

You also have a very selective memory of daoc,
Original daoc epic was the highest thing you could gain, and i actually enjoyed the epic quest and the storyline which it followed.

Shrouded isles released, spellcrafting goes main stream now all your epic gear is obselete. Grind away getting your template items and then grind some more to get the gold so you can afford to get a spellcrafter to make up your gear. If you solo'd or were in a gank grp this could take weeks if not months of farming TG/Lair etc... for the heal proc weapons or gold gear

TOA released, camp ridiculously low pop rate encounters for a item then farm the same mobs for weeks for the scrolls, all so you can "enjoy" grinding through master levels in between grinding ml xp and not to mention leveling your artifacts.
All this before you realise you need to pay for your mp armour and spellcrafting so back you go to gind some more.

Minotaur expansions released, lo and behold more grind! get your champion levels and your champ weapon so you can level it up further. Now to be fair they did learn from their mistakes and the champ levels were quite interesting the first time around


Finally you reach rvr and you find you cant compete against the rr10 groups out there, so you zerg/keep hump (yes more grind) to rr5 just so you can compete


Before you argue i have completed pretty much every major instance in daoc (mid & most of alb), and i can tell you once you know the basics most of these scenarios are not hard at all. You don't even need to think for yourself because people such as myself give guides and walkthroughs on how to do it so you dont have to die 20x to work out all the things that can go wrong.
But thats your choice, noone is making you read what you have to do nor is anyone making you use mods the game is what you make it
I used 3-5 accounts for the challenge of completing scenarios on my own, or maybe in a fg, sometimes a bigger scale like ML marathons just to see if i can (ironically higher tier pve was more of a challenge for me than relic raids were )


WOW is the same, as is WAR difference is that WOW hides the grind better than the rest and keeps people interested