Where did the pop go? ... oh yea... lich king *sigh*

[Lubbock]

Our guold is low on numbers atm, not due to WoW but due to Fallout 3

 

[Ezeine]

Our guold is low on numbers atm, not due to WoW but due to Fallout 3

That's the funniest guild typo I've seen :lol:

 

[Boggy]

Wasn't my experience that "everybody" moaned like that. Hibernia's "moaned" cause it always was Emain which was a zerg fest, but there were plenty of good RvR to find in Midgard and Albion frontiers.
In fact - it was this splitting of zones which IMO provides most of the fun RvR aspects of DAoC cause if you wanted zerg RvR you knew you'd most likely find some in Emain, if you wanted solo or full group, you could either try and venture deep int Hibernia or one of the other zones.

There's not any point arguing this with you. All I can say is that you either weren't there or you are just misrepresenting the facts here cos I disagreed with you once in another thread.

It's not even a matter of opinion. Everyone knows how both OF and NF RvR worked.

 

[Tallen]

They wanted to be WoW.... maybe if they had tried to be DAoC they would have been more successful.

Doubtful.

DAoC was ultimately a failure population-wise, WoW is incredibly successful, not rocket science which of the two, if emulated, would be more successful.

Warhammer is arguably both and neither, if this causes both groups of fanbois to spit the dummy and quit then fine. Give it 4-6 months with the devs holding their course and not giving in to the demands of the minority of crying munchkins and then we'll have a much better picture of where this game is heading. Right now its just too early.

Population on the 2 servers i play is fine, thats all i can say.

 

[Xandax]

There's not any point arguing this with you. All I can say is that you either weren't there or you are just misrepresenting the facts here cos I disagreed with you once in another thread.

It's not even a matter of opinion. Everyone knows how both OF and NF RvR worked.

Ahh - yes. Your subjective and anecdotal "evidence" isn't even a matter of opinion whereas mine are "misrepresenting the facts" (lol - facts used in that context is ridiculous).
Try again - if you want to represent something subjective and anecdotal as fact, then you better back it up as fact, and there is no reason to get whiny because you can't or don't like others subjective and anecdotal "facts".



I think this game would be able to facilitate much more oRvR if in fact the RvR areas were larger. Also - I do believe that one of the claims made in the old days was the RvR area of T4 would be 80%. That by far is not my experience, but I've not measure the "square miles" of T4 RvR zone, but I do not see them make up 80%.

I think the Tier dividing of RvR zones - while good in scenarios - make little sense in term of the oRvR combat. It makes the game fragmented.
I would have wished they'd went with the "RvR zone" approach from DAoC.

 

[civy]

WAR is hurt by its reliance on server population. Assuming both side are of equal skill and balanced then numbers > all. The more players on your side the more VP’s. Simply queuing for scenarios even knowing one wont pop will get you VP’s. More pop means more questing/PQ’s = more VP’s. More pop means easier keep taking/defending and the ability to do it on multiple fronts= more VP’s. Zerg vrs Zerg the largest will win = more VP’s.

The game will get very old very quick for the losing side when their city is constantly a PQ zone for the enemy.

I’m all for playing the underdog as long as the dog can have his day. I just don’t see how that can happen in WAR

 

[Zebolt]

You all go on about how good DAoC was back in the day but you forget WoW was an awesome game before it became a victim of it's own success, now it's just a commecial game that bows down to the hardcore players demands, but it's still going stronger than ever before.

No I haven't forgot what an awsome game WoW was, cuz' it never was. DAoC was and still are the best game on the market PvP wise. I played WoW for several years and it never once came to the same standard at DAoC.

Atm though WoTLK might be better than WAR (I haven't tried WoTLK and probably won't) but that ain't saying much, cuz' WAR at it current state just doesn't cut it as a great MMO.

 

[Zebolt]

Doubtful.

DAoC was ultimately a failure population-wise, WoW is incredibly successful, not rocket science which of the two, if emulated, would be more successful.

Maybe I was a bit unclear. I didn't mean successful in population I meant successful in making a good game. WAR has obviously failed. It might get there someday who knows but as it is now it's just not good enough.

 

[Aada]

The problem with WAR is the PVE side sucks it's just really bad PQ's are no fun for the group of RL friends who wanna quest/dungeon crawl when some random chimp shows up and wins the best loot.

These days you have to cater for everyone if you want your game to succeed.

 

[gordro]

KEP had enough online Friday night at about 9ish to kill the server on a Fortress attack.

Thats the day after WOTLK came out.

Actually since Thursday (the day it was released) KEP has seen a lot more real oRVR.

I guess that all the WoW boys went to where we have been telling them to go, and we are better off for it.

I've installed Wotlk, but managed about an hour before I went zzzzzzz. good game, but I've done this to death for 4 years or so.

Hopefully the server trandsfers will sort out the non-Kep guys so they can enjoy some of what War was supposed to be all about.

hopefully the servers will also be able to handle the strain, or this will kill War fast.

 

[Boggy]

Ahh - yes. Your subjective and anecdotal "evidence" isn't even a matter of opinion whereas mine are "misrepresenting the facts" (lol - facts used in that context is ridiculous).
Try again - if you want to represent something subjective and anecdotal as fact, then you better back it up as fact, and there is no reason to get whiny because you can't or don't like others subjective and anecdotal "facts".



I think this game would be able to facilitate much more oRvR if in fact the RvR areas were larger. Also - I do believe that one of the claims made in the old days was the RvR area of T4 would be 80%. That by far is not my experience, but I've not measure the "square miles" of T4 RvR zone, but I do not see them make up 80%.

I think the Tier dividing of RvR zones - while good in scenarios - make little sense in term of the oRvR combat. It makes the game fragmented.
I would have wished they'd went with the "RvR zone" approach from DAoC.

You can choose to believe that reality is moulded by whoever makes the most aggressive forum posts if you like. I choose to believe that facts exist for most things, regardless of whether everyone is aware of or acknowledges them. In this case, I was referring to you misrepresenting what was said on the forums, which is not in the least subjective. People said it or didn't say it, even if you didn't read it or don't remember it.

In OF almost all RvR happened in Emain between ATK and MTK. Sometimes it migrated to hadrians.

In NF almost all RvR happened around the 3 principal keeps. It did spread more often into other areas, but a large proportion of the time the majority of the frontier was completely empty. That's not me being subjective, and it won't change if you reply with something inflammatory - whatever way you count zero people, it still comes to zero.

Just to remind you, my initial point was not suggesting WAR has got the RvR zones right. I was merely using the frontier configuration as one example of where I can see how they would have arrived at what we have in WAR from a DAoC starting point (in response to someone saying population is low because they tried to copy WoW).

I suggest before you reply you give a bit of thought to whether you are actually interested in joining this discussion, or whether you just scan threads for the names of people who have annoyed you and think of ways to pick arguments with them.

 

[Zede]

There's not any point arguing this with you. All I can say is that you either weren't there or you are just misrepresenting the facts here cos I disagreed with you once in another thread.

It's not even a matter of opinion. Everyone knows how both OF and NF RvR worked.

I think he is one of those people who played DaoC for the first year then quit because someone got to RR5 & he deamed this as "OP" against his pve-tastic pbaoe wiz.

Xan, sorry but your a £1.99 whine from a supermarket. I do admit, your 100s of posts over the years in the Daoc Section are impressive...oh wait....

 

[Raven]

Have to say Wrath of the Litch king is an absolute triumph though. There is more content and story in the first two starter zones than there is in the entire land of Warhammer, you feel you are part of that story, not just witness to it like in WAR. The graphics have been given a good polish too, the draw distance is phenomenal,

Its a shame that they got so much wrong in WAR and now seem to have got themselves a little confused with regard to patching content and making improvements. They have taken a IP with piles upon piles of lore and interesting ideas and spent 4-5-6 years turning it into mediocrity. Having an utterly useless company hosting (granted there have been a few improvements since DAOC) it in Europe does not help matters.

At this rate I don't think I will bother with my planned WAR renewal in a few weeks time

 

[Gahn]

Have to say Wrath of the Litch king is an absolute triumph though. There is more content and story in the first two starter zones than there is in the entire land of Warhammer, you feel you are part of that story, not just witness to it like in WAR. The graphics have been given a good polish too, the draw distance is phenomenal,

Its a shame that they got so much wrong in WAR and now seem to have got themselves a little confused with regard to patching content and making improvements. They have taken a IP with piles upon piles of lore and interesting ideas and spent 4-5-6 years turning it into mediocrity. Having an utterly useless company hosting (granted there have been a few improvements since DAOC) it in Europe does not help matters.

At this rate I don't think I will bother with my planned WAR renewal in a few weeks time

Ah dude, cya in 3 weeks

 

[Twoeye]

Our guold is low on numbers atm

Noticed that

 

[Svartmetall]

There is more content and story in the first two starter zones than there is in the entire land of Warhammer...

And just wait till people start hitting 80 (I bet some unemployed no-lifer has already hit it) and realise that level 80 holds more grind than just about anything else, anywhere.

 

[Raven]

I guess that depends how you play, I don't grind any more than I did in DAOC. Kill the mob/s that you need and move on. Sure, questing is by definition grinding but then every MMO has that, at least there is a bit of variety in WoW with plenty going on around to distract you and some pretty decent story driven quests. The rep items that you could grind for if you were that way inclined aren't even very good anyway, far better replacements from raiding, the odd pattern here and there but you get the rep from 5 man raiding anyway so not really an issue.

I only have time for 10-15 hours or so a week (tops) so I don't like spending my time grinding, which is the reason I quit WAR rather than go to the US servers. Grind exp, Grind Renown, Grind RPs (scenarios are nothing more than grinding imo) with no obvious end game. "Gratz you are 40 now go back to the scenario you have just spent weeks in!"

 

[Boggy]

And just wait till people start hitting 80 (I bet some unemployed no-lifer has already hit it) and realise that level 80 holds more grind than just about anything else, anywhere.

That's just it, for some unknown reason, they don't realise. They run the same dungeon every night for weeks just to change a bit of faction or earn whatever points their guild gives them so one day they might get a new imaginary piece of armour, and the whole time all they think is "Won't it be great once I finish my suit and can kick arse in PvP". Wonder how many people were 1 piece away from finishing the suits from TBC when WotLK was released and made them all obsolete.

 

[Tallen]

The problem with WAR is the PVE side sucks it's just really bad PQ's are no fun for the group of RL friends who wanna quest/dungeon crawl when some random chimp shows up and wins the best loot.

These days you have to cater for everyone if you want your game to succeed.

Bingo.

PvE in WAR is very shallow and very poorly done. It's all well and good saying it's a pvp game, but the VAST majority of mmorpg players want decent pve, very few pvp all the time.

The big challenge for Mythic was to get the pvp/pve balance right, so far it's not looking too good on that front.

 

[Frozenheart]

That's just it, for some unknown reason, they don't realise. They run the same dungeon every night for weeks just to change a bit of faction or earn whatever points their guild gives them so one day they might get a new imaginary piece of armour, and the whole time all they think is "Won't it be great once I finish my suit and can kick arse in PvP". Wonder how many people were 1 piece away from finishing the suits from TBC when WotLK was released and made them all obsolete.

What does it matter? You don't play wow, infact all the wow bashers claim not to play so why are they so bothered what the wow players are actually doing ... leave them to it. Me thinks some people are just obssessed :lol:

 

[Boggy]

Of course it matters to me. The biggest single source of investment in MMOs is producing that leveling/loot treadmill, when they could be producing a game I would be able to enjoy. And as long as there are millions of players buying into it, it won't change. Yes, I am bothered by that.

 

[Raven]

That's just it, for some unknown reason, they don't realise. They run the same dungeon every night for weeks just to change a bit of faction or earn whatever points their guild gives them so one day they might get a new imaginary piece of armour, and the whole time all they think is "Won't it be great once I finish my suit and can kick arse in PvP". Wonder how many people were 1 piece away from finishing the suits from TBC when WotLK was released and made them all obsolete.

Except for the fact that pve gear and pvp gear are completely different, one is earn't in PVE, the other, you guessed it...PvP Also I can expect my tier 6 pve armour to see me up to level 80 raiding. Not had any better armour drop and I am just entering the level 74 content. There is very little from standard dungeons that would be worth farming for to enter the 10/25 man content. Besides, raiding is not about "epix" it is about grouping with 24 other people with a common goal.

pve gear is crap for pvp
pvp gear is crap for pve

 

[Frozenheart]

9.99 million people can't be wrong boggy

 

[00dave]

No I haven't forgot what an awsome game WoW was, cuz' it never was. DAoC was and still are the best game on the market PvP wise. I played WoW for several years and it never once came to the same standard at DAoC.

That's your opinion but not the opinion of several million subscribers. Pre TBC WoW was a great game, simple as. It clearly kicked DAoC arse because it's still successful now. Just because you prefer DAoC it doesn't make it the better game.

 

[Ezeine]

Just because you prefer DAoC it doesn't make it the better game.

It does unless it's you who decides what the "better game" is for him.

 

[Bugz]

That's your opinion but not the opinion of several million subscribers. Pre TBC WoW was a great game, simple as. It clearly kicked DAoC arse because it's still successful now. Just because you prefer DAoC it doesn't make it the better game.

Yeah because DAoC and WoW were clearly released at the same time!

 

[Boggy]

Except for the fact that pve gear and pvp gear are completely different, one is earn't in PVE, the other, you guessed it...PvP Also I can expect my tier 6 pve armour to see me up to level 80 raiding. Not had any better armour drop and I am just entering the level 74 content. There is very little from standard dungeons that would be worth farming for to enter the 10/25 man content. Besides, raiding is not about "epix" it is about grouping with 24 other people with a common goal.

pve gear is crap for pvp
pvp gear is crap for pve

You say that, but (a) whether you want PvE or PvP gear, the mechanism is the same - rinse/repeat the same activity an enormous number of times - and (b) I notice you say your tier 6 gear will see you up to level 80 raiding, you don't deny that raiding is the end game.

I am no expert on WoW, I'll admit, but is not "raiding" a short way of saying "grinding faction, then grinding raid dungeons"? Beg your pardon if I have misunderstood this, I got bored of WoW almost the moment I entered my first level 70 instance and never progress past that.

 

[Tallen]

9.99 million people can't be wrong boggy

Sure they can

 

[Muylaetrix]

9.99 million people can't be wrong boggy

then how comes bush got elected TWICE ?!?:lol:

 

[Zebolt]

That's your opinion but not the opinion of several million subscribers. Pre TBC WoW was a great game, simple as. It clearly kicked DAoC arse because it's still successful now. Just because you prefer DAoC it doesn't make it the better game.

Ofc it's my opinion. I write what I think, not what other thinks. And yes it does, for me DAoC is the better game.

And you can't really say millions of ppl perfer WoW over DAoC either since they have never tried out DAoC. I'm convinced that more ppl would choose DAoC over WoW if they had the same amount of players and both were run by Blizzard. That's only speculations ofc (apparently I have to point that out ) since noone will ever know for sure.

Pre TBC WoW was a great game, simple as.

Just as you told me, your opinion, not mine :>