We're out!

[Access Denied]

Sure, but you cannot build an economy on whisky exports.

Same with the oil - even if any spurrious claims about "Scottish territorial waters" are settled in favour of Scotland, it's all going to be gone in a couple of decades. Renewable energy admittadly looks like a genuine moneyspinner given the famous weather here but that still requires investment and by and large, there are no large-scale deployments of any 'new' renewables like wave and tidal power.

The technology exists already and it's not that expensive. At least for wave power. There's this thing that looks like a giant metal snake with pistons inside. The waves cause it to undulate and the pistons drive electricity generators.

The goal has always been a large euro federal state. They're all running around like headless chickens now, because it appears that their dream is going to be a lot more difficult than they ever thought.

The biggest problem I can forsee if that ever happened would be that Europe would think it was big enough to start swinging a stick at the rest of the world and America would have none of it. Leading to war. Extreme maybe but it's plausible.

 

[Uncle Sick]

Germany is ready to take over?

That's laughable. Fact is, that Germany is footing most of the bills while the rest of the Euro zone reaps the benefits.
If I pay the bill, I get to have a say what's done with the money. Or not?

Fact is that Cameron effectively put the UK on the sidelines of Europe. Good luck with that in the future.

I left Germany 10 years ago to live in US but reading this revanchist "Germany wants to take over" and "WW2, this time with the Euro Panzer"drivel
does offend me. And tbh, I thought most people posting here would be above this petty bull shit.

Germany has moved past it's past, learned from it, changed and moved on.
The average Brit apparently still lives the Blitz. Kind of sad and backwards.

 

[ECA]

Being outside increases our influence in the world, especially w/ the european foreign minister crap ( biggest lol ever, diplomacy by committee ).
Instead of there being 27 voices that the us/russia/china/whoever talks to there are now 2, Britain and some technocrat fuckstick who has to ask 27 people before he can be told his decision by merkozy.

Why do we give a fuck about what domestic USE ( united states of europe ) policy is? Why should we care about not influencing it?

The best part about this - we're the Texas to europes USA.

Fuck yeah. I've always wanted to be a cowboy.

 

[Job]

Jesus lord of crap, German politicians in less than subtle wording wanting to 'punish' the UK for not playing ball, hinting at using their power to lever others to isolate us.
This to 70 million people who have nukes!
Let us be clear here, this has descended into the Krauts vs the Brits, every other country in the EU are irrelevant, just puppets of the mighty German economy and we can only hope their toothless gang pulls them into shit before they start the 4th Reich..I mean finish it.

 

[Embattle]

Personally I don't view it as Krauts vs Brits although I would never rule it totally out, it is also accepted that Germany did best out of the Euro so this idea about paying the bill means it is all about balance. To me you can share the blame out, personally if you want someone as the figurehead then you would probably be on safer ground looking at Sarkozy.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Euro Panzer

That sounds infinately badass

 

[gohan]

Good article in the Guardian about the Eurozone crisis and what it means to Scotland (or rather, the SNP's vision of Scotland). Speaking as someone living in another small celtic country; its becoming fairly clear to me that small countries without massive natural resources are going to have to accept that some other bigger "country" is going to control their destiny.

fortunately scotland a wales are like our little pets, we just let you get on with it

 

[Embattle]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/12/britain-and-eu-2

 

[old.user4556]

fortunately scotland a wales are like our little pets, we just let you get on with it

How patronising.

 

[DaGaffer]

How patronising.

Totally. Question is, do you want to be patronised by an Englishman, or a Franco-German? Its going to be one or the other...

 

[gohan]

How patronising.

it was supposed to be as DaGaffer said without many natrual resources ect you'll struggle to stand totaly alone, alteast within the UK there's an understanding and not too much interference ect, if uk went into EU completely you'd lose all the free higher education for a start.

 

[Chilly]

Jesus lord of crap, German politicians in less than subtle wording wanting to 'punish' the UK for not playing ball, hinting at using their power to lever others to isolate us.
This to 70 million people who have nukes!
Let us be clear here, this has descended into the Krauts vs the Brits, every other country in the EU are irrelevant, just puppets of the mighty German economy and we can only hope their toothless gang pulls them into shit before they start the 4th Reich..I mean finish it.

What the fuck have you been smoking?

 

[Job]

The Germans tried and mostly succeeded to take over Europe seventy years ago,because they thought they knew best,maybe they did, but Britain found itself in EXACTLY the same position as it does now.
We demilitarised the Germans so they would never do it again, and here they are effectively ruling Europe again by economic might, all hidden behind 'saving' something.
Young people have no understanding of the steps to war,and everything seemed so unlikely back then as well.
They don't even have the decency to hold back on the rhetoric.
Mark my words(no pun intended) this is the end of national soverienigty for every Eurostate.
Join the club or we'll make sure everyone ignores you, there's laws against that sort of thing.

 

[Ch3tan]

you patronising dick Job. "young people" my arse, you are hardly a war vet are you?

 

[Chilly]

The Germans tried and mostly succeeded to take over Europe seventy years ago,because they thought they knew best,maybe they did, but Britain found itself in EXACTLY the same position as it does now.
We demilitarised the Germans so they would never do it again, and here they are effectively ruling Europe again by economic might, all hidden behind 'saving' something.
Young people have no understanding of the steps to war,and everything seemed so unlikely back then as well.
They don't even have the decency to hold back on the rhetoric.
Mark my words(no pun intended) this is the end of national soverienigty for every Eurostate.
Join the club or we'll make sure everyone ignores you, there's laws against that sort of thing.

I think you're forgetting that almost everyone involved in the second world war are dead or at the very least nothing to do with running the country. The people in power now are doing whatever they are doing for their own reasons that are relevant today: ie to best serve their people. I suspect Germany has no interest in ruling Europe - they just want to stop people being total cunts with national budgets - a very reasonable goal.

 

[Zarjazz]

jesus blah blah

war blah blah blah

tl;dr

"we shall fight them on the forums, we shall them fight with angry rhetoric, we shall them fight those dirty euros"

 

[rynnor]

I dont think War is remotely likely. I can see all the southern european countries happily fiddling their way around the new controls as they hold their hands out for cash.

Even France fiddled its way into the Euro - only Germany really played by the rules and I cant see that changing.

I dont see much real chance for political union either - it would be better to default and crash the Euro than to get taken over.

 

[Scouse]

Political union is inevitable. Fiscal union makes that a bazillion times more likely (and, frankly, is 90% of what matters anyway).

It'll just take time...

 

[Jupitus]

Job in 'act like a cunt' shocker

 

[Raven]

Germany is ready to take over?

That's laughable. Fact is, that Germany is footing most of the bills while the rest of the Euro zone reaps the benefits.
If I pay the bill, I get to have a say what's done with the money. Or not?

Fact is that Cameron effectively put the UK on the sidelines of Europe. Good luck with that in the future.

I left Germany 10 years ago to live in US but reading this revanchist "Germany wants to take over" and "WW2, this time with the Euro Panzer"drivel
does offend me. And tbh, I thought most people posting here would be above this petty bull shit.

Germany has moved past it's past, learned from it, changed and moved on.
The average Brit apparently still lives the Blitz. Kind of sad and backwards.

You started it...

 

[Job]

Learned from it's past my hairy ass, these events are stirring German nationilistic ferver, and who could blame them.
They are by far the most powerful and ordered country in Europe, the average German is constantly being reminded of his superiority and in return being asked to bail out economically haphazard southern states.
You may laugh at war, but as the old sketch goes..you started it.
Merkel herself warned of war a few weeks ago,the present state of cuddly affairs is no barrier whatsoever to a sudden catastrophe of relations.
I would grade this step 1 in a 5 step disaster.

 

[chipper]

dont mention the war!

 

[throdgrain]

I wouldnt be suprised if Job was right, though I dont think it would be a millitary war, more an economic one.

 

[Uncle Sick]

You started it...

I didn't start shit. You didn't fight in Dunkirk either, did you?

When I was 17 we went to Brighton for seven days (through school), a friend and I lived with a Mr. and Mrs. Foot. Mr. Foot had been a merchant mariner in WW2 and told
me about all his encounters with German U-boats. He wasn't upset at me or my friend. As a matter of fact he made fun of US merchant sailors jumping into
the lifeboats as soon a periscope wake had been spotted.

My wife's grandfather was in the 34th Infantry Division, the Red Bulls, in Anzio. He told me about the awesome fighting capability of the German infantry man.

My grandfather was 17 when he was drafted in 1943. I heard him speak about the war once. He was stationed in Nijmwegen during Market Garden. He spoke about dead allied
paratroopers hanging in the trees, dead and dying. And he cried. That was also the only time I've ever seen my bear of a grandfather cry.

Most of the old folks who fought in the war are over it and have made their peace with the other side.
I don't know about Mr. Foot of Brighton, but my grandfather and my wife's grandfather have passed away.

Germany's history reaches back as far as the UK's. Don't reduce the achievements of it's people to 12 years.
I don't judge you by what happened to the Boers...


And Job... I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. But either learn to speak German and check for yourself what is said or not or kindly shut the hell up. Or get your news from a credible
source. If that's even possible in your brainwashed state.

Merkel never threatened your country with war or isolation.

 

[Access Denied]

dont mention ze war!

Fixed!

 

[Raven]

I didn't start shit. You didn't fight in Dunkirk either, did you?

When I was 17 we went to Brighton for seven days (through school), a friend and I lived with a Mr. and Mrs. Foot. Mr. Foot had been a merchant mariner in WW2 and told
me about all his encounters with German U-boats. He wasn't upset at me or my friend. As a matter of fact he made fun of US merchant sailors jumping into
the lifeboats as soon a periscope wake had been spotted.

My wife's grandfather was in the 34th Infantry Division, the Red Bulls, in Anzio. He told me about the awesome fighting capability of the German infantry man.

My grandfather was 17 when he was drafted in 1943. I heard him speak about the war once. He was stationed in Nijmwegen during Market Garden. He spoke about dead allied
paratroopers hanging in the trees, dead and dying. And he cried. That was also the only time I've ever seen my bear of a grandfather cry.

Most of the old folks who fought in the war are over it and have made their peace with the other side.
I don't know about Mr. Foot of Brighton, but my grandfather and my wife's grandfather have passed away.

Germany's history reaches back as far as the UK's. Don't reduce the achievements of it's people to 12 years.
I don't judge you by what happened to the Boers...


And Job... I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. But either learn to speak German and check for yourself what is said or not or kindly shut the hell up. Or get your news from a credible
source. If that's even possible in your brainwashed state.

Merkel never threatened your country with war or isolation.

I am quite impressed you wrote that.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb7K_KUJqoQ

 

[Raven]

Annnd Anyway. I was actually born in Germany and lived there until I was 4 so I am sort of torn between the two. Both my parents are English so I kind of picked English as my nationality.

 

[Embattle]

Still the more you think about it the less the summit did to solve the current problem but seemed to focus on trying to stop the next one.

 

[throdgrain]

I didn't start shit. You didn't fight in Dunkirk either, did you?

Sorry but what relevence does that have? Our forefathers fought and died so that we could be free, and we should be proud of that. Are you saying he can't have an opinion because he wasnt there? Thats fucking rediculous mate.

 

[Job]

There's a strange misconception that the generation that fought the wars are somehow different and that the problems that led there died with them. History repeats itself should be written in big letters in the sky.
I didn't say Merkel had threatened us with war, she simply used the quite reasonable possibility of it happening if the Euro crashed, '50 years of peace cannot be guaranteed', as part of a threat to those who would oppose the drastic measures needed to give the Euro another few months.
All these steps seem reasonable, but they are heading towards and all too familiar endgame for us Brits.
You're either with us or against us.