News War with Russia

DaGaffer

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Gwadien said:
I'm not implying that it's going well for Russia, but it's definitely being overstated how badly it is going - up to 100,000 Americans fled when the draft was called for Vietnam, I'd be interested to know more about numbers, but it'll be a while before any kind of accurate numbers will be given.

As for NK, it completely makes sense, the AK-47 is still one of the best, cheapest and reliable weapons made, far superior to the M16 which the Americans used at the time, and it took a very long while for them to make anything nearly as good. To reiterate - whilst I understand that it's laughable for them to buy them from NK, NK is a complete mess, so I'd imagine the asking price is ridiculously low, so why would they not?

It's the same shit for when the MLRS was introduced into Ukraine, sure, it's had an impact, but there's never ever been a conflict where a state of the art weapons system was brought in and it drastically changed the course of a war, I don't see how or why it would make a significant difference.

Russia was also criticised *heavily* for using their own version of the MLRS in the early days of the war because they're not entirely accurate, whilst I understand Russia intentionally targeted civilian targets in the early days, it's pretty naïve to suggest that the Ukrainian use won't have any effect on their own civilian population, in fact, I recall when that mass graveyard was found in Izium that there was a bit of a story about how a bunch of the dead civilians there were there due to an attack by Ukrainians, which was quickly forgotten about.

Just to be absolutely crystal clear, and I've said this so many times, I do not support Russia, I absolutely support Ukraine, but I just don't see the benefit of believing Twitter as a source of information.
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Problem with buying in AK-47s from NK is its yet another bullet caliber the Russians have to support (they moved away from 7.62 x 39 ammo decades ago for their infantry weapons), and their logistics train is woeful already.

NB. The AK-47 isn't better than the M-16 apart from the very very early M-16s. The AK's only advantage is that you can train an illiterate peasant to fire and look after it with about ten minutes training.
 
Gwadien

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DaGaffer said:
Problem with buying in AK-47s from NK is its yet another bullet caliber the Russians have to support (they moved away from 7.62 x 39 ammo decades ago for their infantry weapons), and their logistics train is woeful already.

NB. The AK-47 isn't better than the M-16 apart from the very very early M-16s. The AK's only advantage is that you can train an illiterate peasant to fire and look after it with about ten minutes training.
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I'm fairly sure the M-16 had jamming issues, and they responded by sending out loads of cleaning kits - hence the cleaning your rifle doctrine, whereas non-nato countries are more bury them in the ground then dust them off when you need them. (which after reviewing your post is pretty much what you said)

I'd imagine that they're already using AK-47s (and slightly later models) that use 7.62 already...

Besides, aren't the AK-74s actually most common AKs used now? I'm fairly sure it's just counterstrike that makes people think AK-47 :p

Yeah, it looks like NK has been replacing it's AKM variant with a AK-74 variant which is 5.56.

The point is, I don't think 'buying gear from NK' is a point and laugh matter, it's a wtf, this is clearly China getting involved without actually getting involved.
 
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BloodOmen

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Gwadien said:
The point is, I don't think 'buying gear from NK' is a point and laugh matter, it's a wtf, this is clearly China getting involved without actually getting involved.
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You're not wrong. It's probably the closest China can go without facing major backlash though. China care more about their revenue and financial rank on the world stage more than they care about Russia in general... especially after they bought up most of Russia's Debt. NK has always been China's Proxy to shady shit.
 
Gwadien

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BloodOmen said:
You're not wrong. It's probably the closest China can go without facing major backlash though. China care more about their revenue and financial rank on the world stage more than they care about Russia in general... especially after they bought up most of Russia's Debt. NK has always been China's Proxy to shady shit.
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I think they care more about the destabilising effect it has on us; our weapons cost a fortune, theirs don't especially if they come via North Korea.
 
BloodOmen

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Gwadien said:
I think they care more about the destabilising effect it has on us; our weapons cost a fortune, theirs don't especially if they come via North Korea.
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I mean China will always put China first, regardless if their relationships. I think that's why China are telling Russia to cease the war in the Ukraine atm because if Putin will listen to anyone, it's China.
 
BloodOmen

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Gwadien said:
lol, Moisin-Nagants were still widely used and preferred by many in WW2, so I take issue with that tweet already.

Also, conscripts on training, pretty normal, i'm more surprised they haven't been given wooden guns.
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I mean, seeing them train with WW1-2 equipment and seeing them die/being caught with said equipment is two different things. Have there been any reports of that yet?
 
Scouse

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Tom said:
Morale isn't looking high. How many of these guys are going to hang around once they see how shit life is?
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No shortage of humans who'd put a bullet to their family because it's "the law" or something.

Humans are shit.

Anyway - don't get distracted by the gun thing - it matters not if they've got "old" guns - the bullets were enough to kill people back then, so they're enough to kill people now. And 300,000 additional soldiers, if they throw them into the grinder, ain't exactly nothing is it.

Just more death. But then, we don't give a shit about that do we.
 
Wij

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Gwadien said:
lol, Moisin-Nagants were still widely used and preferred by many in WW2, so I take issue with that tweet already.

Also, conscripts on training, pretty normal, i'm more surprised they haven't been given wooden guns.
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My point wasn’t about the text. Just the picture. They may make decent sniper rifles but those aren’t sniper rifles.
 
Raven

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Those scopes are £60 on ebay. Made of Chinesium. The turrets are just for show.
 
Gwadien

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This is my point about having 'a weapon' that changes the course of the war possibly being a bit naïve...



There's a discord I'm on where there's people saying lol noobs, they're ramming them into things, and not using missiles, but that's precisely the point, it's a drone with some anti-jamming features and an explosive at the front, costs what? a couple of grand? ram it into a $3.5m MLRS and then it's going to get expensive pretty quickly.

Even if we wanted to continue to financially back Ukraine (my opinion at this point is that we should just throw everything we have at them, with training of course) I don't see how we can possibly keep up production, I doubt you can churn these things out quickly.

It probably explains why the US bought a bunch of extremely cheaper propeller planes from Brazil a couple of years ago, I wonder if WW3 dragged on for a few years, how many decades would we have to go back in technology so that we can mass produce? Especially when the West has largely moved from heavy industry compared to 70 years ago.
 
Raven

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Gwadien said:
This is my point about having 'a weapon' that changes the course of the war possibly being a bit naïve...



There's a discord I'm on where there's people saying lol noobs, they're ramming them into things, and not using missiles, but that's precisely the point, it's a drone with some anti-jamming features and an explosive at the front, costs what? a couple of grand? ram it into a $3.5m MLRS and then it's going to get expensive pretty quickly.

Even if we wanted to continue to financially back Ukraine (my opinion at this point is that we should just throw everything we have at them, with training of course) I don't see how we can possibly keep up production, I doubt you can churn these things out quickly.

It probably explains why the US bought a bunch of extremely cheaper propeller planes from Brazil a couple of years ago, I wonder if WW3 dragged on for a few years, how many decades would we have to go back in technology so that we can mass produce? Especially when the West has largely moved from heavy industry compared to 70 years ago.
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WW3, proper WW3, not a bunch of unrelated battles, will be over in a few weeks. Any real war would involve NATO, or at least most NATO countries, Russia would last days. Putin understands now that he has made a catastrophic error and whatever happens at the end, he will now be owned by China, they will decide how quickly Russia rebuilds, and on what terms. He cannot sell his gas to anyone on anywhere near the scale he sold it to Europe, the pipes take decades to get up and running. He has no money, no economy and nothing he can sell.
 
BloodOmen

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Smart money is on him Annexing the land they currently hold and then try to negotiate peace... Ukraine should tell him to get fucked and continue forward.

The EU seems to think he's not bluffing about nukes this time too, which is concerning... I guess his logic is "If I can't have the land, no fucker will have the land" and he'll nuke territory they hold while claiming its in self defence.
 
Gwadien

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Raven said:
WW3, proper WW3, not a bunch of unrelated battles, will be over in a few weeks. Any real war would involve NATO, or at least most NATO countries, Russia would last days. Putin understands now that he has made a catastrophic error and whatever happens at the end, he will now be owned by China, they will decide how quickly Russia rebuilds, and on what terms. He cannot sell his gas to anyone on anywhere near the scale he sold it to Europe, the pipes take decades to get up and running. He has no money, no economy and nothing he can sell.
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This was said when both ww1 and 2 started...
 
Embattle

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BloodOmen said:
Smart money is on him Annexing the land they currently hold and then try to negotiate peace... Ukraine should tell him to get fucked and continue forward.

The EU seems to think he's not bluffing about nukes this time too, which is concerning... I guess his logic is "If I can't have the land, no fucker will have the land" and he'll nuke territory they hold while claiming its in self defence.
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They already have said no to that, which is understandable.
 
DaGaffer

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Gwadien said:
This was said when both ww1 and 2 started...
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Lead times and technical complexity are the hard stop for logistics in modern war. It took less time to build the entire production line for the P-47 fighter in WW2 than it takes to build a single F-35 fighter today. And while there are cheaper tools like drones etc. they still don't have real scalability. Of course you could end up with a long war where both sides have periods of exhaustion, rebuilding and next attack, which is kind of what happened in WW2, but its just much harder because you can't just throw Rosie The Riveter or Stakhanovites at the problem because you can't upskill workers quickly in the way you could in the old days. Its far more likely for one side or the other to unravel quickly these days as their capital and resources will run out much more quickly. In the case of Russia, Putin just flat out doesn't have the depth to keep this up, unless the Chinese come in. Then all bets would be off.
 
Embattle

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Gwadien

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Not sure why it's not making headlines but it appears both nordstreams have been sabotaged.

Nice knowing you all.
 
Raven

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Apparently, Chechens are refusing to mobilise.
 
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