News US School massacre

[BloodOmen]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910

Not far away you must admit.

Some key words you're neglecting there

China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children

Not Kills

And also from the same article

Security at China's schools has been increased in recent years following a spate of similar knife attacks in which nearly 20 children have been killed.

In recent years how many have been killed by gun attacks in schools in the USA? I dare say easily close to 200 if not more.

 

[Embattle]

Assault rifles are illegal aren't they? Still don't see the need for the legal rifles beyond the bolt-action hunting type.

It sounded like the ban on ARs in American ran out in 2004 and wasn't renewed.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/china-us-school-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

As for the right:



It was a different time.

 

[megadave]

Again, big fundamental difference in the outcome of the two attacks.

Outlawing guns is a stupid idea, adding a few hoops to jump through to get them isn't though.

 

[throdgrain]

Some key words you're neglecting there

China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children

Not Kills

And also from the same article

Security at China's schools has been increased in recent years following a spate of similar knife attacks in which nearly 20 children have been killed.

In recent years how many have been killed by gun attacks in schools in the USA? I dare say easily close to 200 if not more.

So, you admit there is a similarity?

Megadave, your second point makes a bit more sense, but then there are already laws in the US for the control of guns. You cant own a handgun under 21 anyway. This fella was 20.

I see no one has answered the
assault rifle question. Remarkable since you are all so knowledgable.

Assault rifles are banned in almost every state in the USA. I bet you anything you like this bloke didnt have one.

But you know what? When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns, right?

 

[Aada]

So, you admit there is a similarity?

Megadave, your second point makes a bit more sense, but then there are already laws in the US for the control of guns. You cant own a handgun under 21 anyway. This fella was 20.

I see no one has answered the
assault rifle question. Remarkable since you are all so knowledgable.

Assault rifles are banned in almost every state in the USA. I bet you anything you like this bloke didnt have one.

But you know what? When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns, right?

An American friend i have known for years says he can walk into any gun shop and buy an M4 assault rifle with his milk in the morning.

 

[throdgrain]

An American friend i have known for years says he can walk into any gun shop and buy an M4 assault rifle with his milk in the morning.

Well, that is wrong. Please define assault rifle.

 

[Aada]

Well, that is wrong. Please define assault rifle.

Google it.

 

[Moriath]

Lets all worship the sad 26 ppl killed in USA but not care about Syria that has gone on so long its not news worth ... plus all the other places ... drone attacks from USA in Afghan or Pakistan, people starving to death in n Korea etc ..

ofc a western kid is worth 20 nondescript countries populations lives .. zzzzzzzzzzzz

Wake me up when something is actually news worthy rather than facilitated by its own countries laws

 

[opticle]

The discussion is about what happened in the USA. Arguments about other countries are irrelevant - yes they are really wrong too. We all know that. This is wrong. So stop with the "OMFG OTHER PEOPLE DYING IN OTHER PLACES ZOMG!!". The USA is responsible for a lot of those too. Go figure.

The argument "Crazy people would find a way to kill people anyway" is also wrong. You clearly do not have enough experience of crazy people. Without the tools to massacre multiple people (i.e. guns not knives) made readily available, they would not be able to do this. I've met a lot of crazy people in the UK, they have never been the kind of people to be able to source a gun in the UK - but if they had a gun, I would be seriously worried.

As someone pointed out, the constitution was drawn up for Olde Rifles, not semi-automatic weapons.

Also, no one has answered this - the "Right to bear arms" and "Self-defence" ... Does that mean they're allowed grenades too? And incendiary weapons? How about own a tank? Because, omfg, they have a right to defend themselves and bear arms, so why not those? Where do you draw the line???

 

[Tom]

I see that the press are already demonising the person who committed this horrible crime. Every time someone goes out "in a blaze of glory", they dig through the perpertrator's history, get the awkward mugshots, print "terrifying" stories of weird behaviour, etc.

Basically, they put these people on a pedestal and encourage others to go out the same way.

I'm disgusted by what happened to these poor children but, if I'm to be honest about it, I'm rather disgusted by the way the media treats this event as the most awful thing ever, when kids are being massacred all the time in sub-Saharan Africa. But because these are white-skinned and don't talk a funny language, they're more newsworthy.

 

[Job]

I'm the first to call our mass hypocrisy, but it's all about context, if a US Marine went on a rampage in an Afghan school , the reaction would be the same, but if they accidently dropped a cluster bomb on the same school it would be much less tragic to the masses.

 

[soze]

Do people honestly think banning guns will stop these massacres?

Unless one of these attacks is a case off x happens to nut job in the morning so he goes home grabs his guns and goes back to school killing 20 people then you simply can not say that. If they plan their attach and can't get a gun then it is easy to look up explosives or look up chemical weapons, guns are the easiest option for yanks but taking them away does not achieve anything.

By some accounts there are 300 million guns in the United States. Saying that all of these guns need to be banned and collected and destroyed because of the acts of a vast minority IS like saying lets ban cars because they kill people. 300 million guns yes the actions of 2 people in this year means there should be none? I would think drunk drivers in America have killed far more people in the last year than both massacres put together. Yet because of the legitimate uses for cars and vans no one talks about banning them? Well sorry but 99.99% of guns in country you know the ones not used in a massacre are also being used for legitimate purposes so banning all of them is (impossible) and a over reaction. I can not begin to imagine how many deaths a ban on guns in the US would cause. ATF ect trying to collect guns from people who have been raised to believe that it is a right to own a gun. Militias would end up stock piling even more guns and you would even get private citizens barricading themselves to protect their constitutional freedoms.

Don't get me wrong this is a tragedy but having the gun did not make this guy or the Batman shooter a nutter guns were just the tools used. And if both attacks were planned then banning the legal owning of guns would not stop anything. People really do need to stop blaming guns and look at why these kids decide to go on these killing sprees.

 

[throdgrain]

Yes they honestly do. Because it's the easy answer.

 

[Job]

Owning an assault rifle as a hobby and being proud of it..then teaching your slightly odd son how to use it is two steps down the road to this outcome.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Please define assault rifle.

*unzip*

 

[Mabs]

if youre going to revert constantly to the NOT AT ALL SIMILAIR argument about cars

does "banning cars save lives" , no1 has ever tried it, it might
however, SPEED LIMITS do

so your argument is fail

 

[soze]

if youre going to revert constantly to the NOT AT ALL SIMILAIR argument about cars

does "banning cars save lives" , no1 has ever tried it, it might
however, SPEED LIMITS do

so your argument is fail

So you are saying decreasing the risk is enough?

So banning silencers, armor piercing ammo, fully automatic weapons ect which is decreasing the risk is enough then.

 

[Mabs]

So you are saying decreasing the risk is enough?

So banning silencers, armor piercing ammo, fully automatic weapons ect which is decreasing the risk is enough then.

what im saying is that there is almost certainly no 100% fool proof way to stop anything, but you can reduce the obvious risks / advantages / etc that make the situations either more likely, or more volatile
which, while not being "the answer" which arguable is a theoretical rather than achievable concept, wouldnt fucking hurt

 

[soze]

So go for more gun control not a ban. Ban clips over 15 rounds, ban semi automatic rifles and sub machine guns. There are plenty of ways to reduce the risk without the hysterical "ban all guns"

 

[opticle]

So go for more gun control not a ban. Ban clips over 15 rounds, ban semi automatic rifles and sub machine guns. There are plenty of ways to reduce the risk without the hysterical "ban all guns"

That'd be a start.

It's like I said, you don't see so many grenade and bazooka killings.. If they were easy to get hold of, there'd be a whole lot more.

 

[throdgrain]

Please dont say clips, it hurts my sensibilities

Moderators (silencers) are already banned in the US, at least they are very very hard to get hold of, which is ironic really, as over here they are very common, although they are on your licence as if it was another firearm. Neither can I see why you would want to ban semi automatic rifles. It's like the dopey law here, my pump action shotguns are restricted to 2 in the magazine plus one in the chamber, wtf difference does that make to anything??

 

[Gumbo]

So go for more gun control not a ban. Ban clips over 15 rounds, ban semi automatic rifles and sub machine guns. There are plenty of ways to reduce the risk without the hysterical "ban all guns"

None of which would have made the tiniest difference in this case.

America will simply not accept the total and complete ban of firearms, nor should they. There would be hundreds of shootouts as ATF tried to round up guns. It's precisely the sort of move which the right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution to prevent.

Gun control won't stop this kind of thing. It might stop some gun crime, but it won't stop maniacs offing students en masse.

 

[opticle]

Gun control won't stop this kind of thing. It might stop some gun crime, but it won't stop maniacs offing students en masse.

Yes it would stop a lot of people with psychological problems offing students en masse.

And as someone else said, the right to bear arms was introduced when the guns they were referring to were these:

 

[ECA]

And when pirates and outlaws were commonplace :/

 

[soze]

Please dont say clips, it hurts my sensibilities

Moderators (silencers) are already banned in the US, at least they are very very hard to get hold of, which is ironic really, as over here they are very common, although they are on your licence as if it was another firearm. Neither can I see why you would want to ban semi automatic rifles. It's like the dopey law here, my pump action shotguns are restricted to 2 in the magazine plus one in the chamber, wtf difference does that make to anything??

In a massacre the ability to shoot 100 rounds from a semi auto with a drum magazine would make a massive difference to firing 100 rounds from 6 magazines when you have to cock each round? Plus with that control in place hunter and enthusiasts would not lose their guns.

None of which would have made the tiniest difference in this case.

America will simply not accept the total and complete ban of firearms, nor should they. There would be hundreds of shootouts as ATF tried to round up guns. It's precisely the sort of move which the right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution to prevent.

Gun control won't stop this kind of thing. It might stop some gun crime, but it won't stop maniacs offing students en masse.

That is almost exactly what i said a few replies up. I am for gun control against a ban on guns. No one needs a Semi Automatic AR 15 with a 100 round Drum Magazine. For target shooting and hunting you don't need that firepower.

 

[rynnor]

I think its too late for any kind of effective gun control in the US (if you were inclined to try) and it has a porous border with gun crazed mexico - the best fix for these incidents is better school security - perhaps an armed guard.

 

[ECA]

Mexico has gun control, they just smuggle them from the us > mexico. Mexico has blamed the us for the guns its drug cartels use publicly.

 

[TdC]

I see that the press are already demonising the person who committed this horrible crime.

this tbh. some of the remarks are just awful. Good old Captain Hindsight eh :-/

 

[Mabs]

I think its too late for any kind of effective gun control in the US (if you were inclined to try) and it has a porous border with gun crazed mexico - the best fix for these incidents is better school security - perhaps an armed guard.

IF THE KIDS HAD BEEN ARMED THEY COULD OF STOPPED HIM

.....

 

[Ormorof]

this tbh. some of the remarks are just awful. Good old Captain Hindsight eh :-/

i always wonder why they start with "He was a lonesome type, he liked playing online computer games..."

always annoys me that we get lumped into the mass-murdering maniac group simply because we play computer games

also it was his mum that was a gun enthusiast not him so perhaps having lots of guns around a deranged son who hates you is perhaps a bad idea