Politics US Election 2020

[BloodOmen]

 

[Deebs]

 

[BloodOmen]

View attachment 43557

Good. Hope they do the same to all his followers, Banon etc too.

 

[Deebs]

Well AWS are shutting down Parler in the next day or so.

 

[BloodOmen]

Well AWS are shutting down Parler in the next day or so.

Good.

 

[Scouse]

Indeed, I'm all for free speech, but it's not without consequence.

Nobody ever said it was.

But there are some consequences that cannot be if speech can be classed as free - 1) you cannot be criminalissd for what you say, 2) you must be able to continue to say it.

 

[Scouse]

Well AWS are shutting down Parler in the next day or so.

So that's all users then!

Why don't they shut down all of twitter? Lots of really horrible things get said on twitter. That clearly justifies shutting down all discourse, right?

Parler's difference is that it says it won't censor speech.


Funny. I didn't think all it would take for people to ditch the principle of free speech was hatred of things they disagree with. But then, I guess I'm naieve.

 

[Deebs]

So that's all users then!

Why don't they shut down all of twitter? Lots of really horrible things get said on twitter. That clearly justifies shutting down all discourse, right?

Parler's difference is that it says it won't censor speech.


Funny. I didn't think all it would take for people to ditch the principle of free speech was hatred of things they disagree with. But then, I guess I'm naieve.

Parler is being used to actively plan terrorist attacks. Twitter is not and where it is the messages are removed, Parler does no such thing.

AWS is merely terminating its contract with Parler. They are still able to go host somewhere else or setup their own servers in a DC to carry on. There is also gab.com where the cunts can go but they won't tolerate speech which breaks laws or incite violence.

 

[Deebs]

Nobody ever said it was.

But there are some consequences that cannot be if speech can be classed as free - 1) you cannot be criminalissd for what you say, 2) you must be able to continue to say it.

1 - free speech does not include the right to break laws.
2- free speech does not include the right to force private companies to amplify what you say. They have not stopped you from saying what you want, just refusing to carry your speech which is very different.

 

[Scouse]

1 - free speech does not include the right to break laws.

Speech isn't free if government can enact laws prohibiting what you can say.

That is the whole point of the 1st Amendment. The whole point.


The fact that people don't understand and/or really fight for that principle (which I consider one of the crowning achievements of mankind) is genuinely more depressing to me than a lost year of my life due to covid.

All my life I've tried to be an optimist for the human race, to think the best of us - that we rise above the noise. But this isn't a hard principle to grasp. It is staggering and genuinely shocking to me that it's given so little importance and that people are simply so reactive.

I guess I'm actually offended by the position so many people take on this. It's like the human race is made up of individual facists who's only common ground is when they can find something to like or hate in common - but fuck "detesting what others say but fighting to the death for their right to say it".

The enlightenment is well and truly un-enlightened.

 

[Deebs]

Speech isn't free if government can enact laws prohibiting what you can say.

That is the whole point of the 1st Amendment. The whole point.


The fact that people don't understand and really fight for that principle (which I consider one of the crowning achievements of mankind) more depressing that a lost year of my life due to covid.

All my life I've tried to be an optimist for the human race, to think the best of us - that we rise above the noise. But this isn't a hard principle to grasp. It is staggering and genuinely shocking to me that it's given so little importance and that people are simply so reactive.

I guess I'm actually offended by the position so many people take on this. It's like the human race is made up of individual facists who's only common ground is when they can find something to like or hate in common - but fuck "detesting what others say but fighting to the death for their right to say it".

The enlightenment is well and truly un-enlightened.

The 1st amendment does not grant a person the right to force someone to amplify their speech. As you mentioned this I can bring POTUS into the conversation. HE HAS A FUCKING PRESS STUDIO IN HIS HOUSE HE CAN USE 24 HOURS A DAY TO SPOUT HIS SHIT FROM.

 

[Scouse]

Calling bullshit @Deebs - you said this:

1 - free speech does not include the right to break laws.

....

Let that just sit there.

 

[Deebs]

Calling bullshit @Deebs - you said this:


....

Let that just sit there.

Go read

United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DaGaffer]

Called it.

Meh. The division is already there, the idea that there is going to be any "healing" is pretty fatuous tbh, and everyone is already in a bubble that doesn't offer dissenting views.

Now, personally, I'd have just banned him until Jan 20, on the grounds of clear threat. But once he's a private citizen again, restart. Because if he foments another insurrection then; its straight to jail, do no collect $200, do not pass Go. No more hiding behind his office.

Here's the thing I can't figure out though; at the rally before the attack on the Capitol, he literally lied to his own followers' faces, "we're going to march down to the Capitol..." "We"? Where was he? How did they not notice? Never mind all his subsequent throwing of them under the bus.

 

[Wij]

Parler's difference is that it says it won't censor speech.

That's actually not true. Users can still get banned from Parler. Just for different reasons. They don't mind racism or talking about killing Libs.

 

[DaGaffer]

Why is he an overwhelming prat? I think out of all the billionaires out there he's probably the coolest.

And he has the coolest companies.

As opposed to sweatshop Bezos.

He's a dick. He has some very good ideas and interesting businesses, but he's still a dick, and as prone as any of the other tech billionaires to abusive employment practices, gagging of dissent, abusing planning and zoning laws, you name it. Bezos is more awful, as is Zuckerberg, but being in the "top ten awful billionaires" list is hardly praiseworthy.

 

[Deebs]

That's actually not true. Users can still get banned from Parler. Just for different reasons. They don't mind racism or talking about killing Libs.

From Parler's guideline pdf

 

[Gray]

I think in the next week we're going to see Trump registering for Weibo and try to make up with the Chinese.

 

[Job]

Its hard to make analogies with free speech given that the internet has flipped the platform in which its played out on its head.

If you have a public square where people come to stand on soapboxes, then people will listen or ignore...if you start inciting violence its fair for you to be removed and the only way to counter that would be for you to have enough physical support to resist.

The situation we have now is the public square is privately owned and they police access to the square and decide who gets to speak regardless of who the crowd wants to hear.

So we talk of building our own square to counter this and they openly talk of building a fence around it to shut it down.

Just imagine for one minute if the big tech was right wing and shut down democratic voices...filtered their opinions out of search engines...made fake...fakenews sites ludicrously biased against progressive politics and had ultra right leaning CEOs on the boardrooms.
Thats what we have now for the left.

 

[Ormorof]

Even physical public squares in the UK are privately owned these days

 

[Deebs]

Last time I checked Governments already have their own public squares on the internet.

gov.uk
whitehouse.gov

are two examples.

 

[Wij]

Its hard to make analogies with free speech given that the internet has flipped the platform in which its played out on its head.

If you have a public square where people come to stand on soapboxes, then people will listen or ignore...if you start inciting violence its fair for you to be removed and the only way to counter that would be for you to have enough physical support to resist.

The situation we have now is the public square is privately owned and they police access to the square and decide who gets to speak regardless of who the crowd wants to hear.

So we talk of building our own square to counter this and they openly talk of building a fence around it to shut it down.

Just imagine for one minute if the big tech was right wing and shut down democratic voices...filtered their opinions out of search engines...made fake...fakenews sites ludicrously biased against progressive politics and had ultra right leaning CEOs on the boardrooms.
Thats what we have now for the left.

That's simply not true.

 

[Ormorof]

By fake news sites do you mean any site that posts any kind of opinion you dont agree with?

 

[Wij]

To be fair I've seen plenty of similar stuff on Twitter and Facebook:


View: https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1348188815916228608

 

[Wij]

And the Nazis being a bit more Nazi on their alts than they do on Twitter will just move to Gab.

 

[Deebs]

And the Nazis being s bit more Nazi on their alts than they do on Twitter will just move to Gab.

Been reading gab, @Job would fit in perfectly there.

It's a fucking loony bin.

 

[Wij]

Been reading gab, @Job would fit in perfectly there.

It's a fucking loony bin.

Again, to be fair, the mainstream social networks have this in spades too.

May have mentioned it before but in 2915/16 a guy I used to go to school with started posting links to loads of posts from the Facebook groups he was in. Groups with names like ULTIMATE PATRIOT. They looked to be from right wing Americans. The articles were all about Muslim riots and liberals banning everything and secret left wing plots to destroy America. (He is not American by the way.)

After the 2016 election the groups mostly shut down. They were actually started by Russian intelligence.

He defriended me just before when I got fed up and started checking some of the posts and pointing out that they were misleading. E.g: the video wasn't of Muslims in Texas. It was plainly another country.

I don't think he speaks to anyone who doesn't believe all that shit anymore. And that was just from Facebook.

 

[Wij]

And another guy I used to go to school with destroyed his brain with Youtube videos of David Icke and such. He's a total fruitcake now.

Thanks Youtube!

 

[Wij]

I've noticed something about THIS social network too.

Before FH existed most of it's current users were young and had fun lives with gaming and girlfriends and went to the pub.

Now we are all grumpy and middle-aged with too much work and not enough gaming and pub. Or sex.

I think FH has radicalised us into boring old farts.

 

[Job]

Ladies and gentleman..the Mob.

This is what you get when people think they are being silenced and black protesters became the mob and now white trumpists are doing it.
This is the officer who died later that day.
Nsfw ..just a pic of him laying facedown, surrounded by a load of people who should and probably will end up with 20yrs.

Spoiler

https://i.redd.it/0hhz3er0ufa61.jpg