United States Corrupt Twattery

[Wij]

Do you even know any Ukrainians?

 

[Scouse]

Do you even know any Ukrainians?

Sorry, just got off a line with a software developer in Kiev that we've been working with for the past three years. His Russian counterparts had to leave the project when the "sanctions" hit (but we didn't ditch the company wholesale - they saw what was coming and moved their headquarters from Moscow to Switzerland ahead of time).

Anyway. Read the article. Watch the vid.

You're happy to say all Russians are cunts with no room for nuance or grey area. I'm just taking a leaf out of your tribal book after trying to have that nuanced argument since the start of the war, but failing because you won't give an inch.

Two can play that game.

 

[Raven]

Why would anyone give them an inch?

 

[Scouse]

Why would anyone give them an inch?

I'm talking about a black and white argument style, clearly.

 

[Wij]

Sorry, just got off a line with a software developer in Kiev that we've been working with for the past three years. His Russian counterparts had to leave the project when the "sanctions" hit (but we didn't ditch the company wholesale - they saw what was coming and moved their headquarters from Moscow to Switzerland ahead of time).

Anyway. Read the article. Watch the vid.

You're happy to say all Russians are cunts with no room for nuance or grey area. I'm just taking a leaf out of your tribal book after trying to have that nuanced argument since the start of the war, but failing because you won't give an inch.

Two can play that game.

I’m not saying all Russians are cunts but I am noticing that the majority of them support the war and think Ukraine doesn’t deserve to exist. You’re arguing against a straw man,

Far right parties in Ukraine get no support.

Is your Ukrainian dev a massive cunt like all Ukrainians?

 

[Scouse]

Is your Ukrainian dev a massive cunt like all Ukrainians?

Medium sized cunt. Doesn't like the gays. Women in the home, etc. etc. Basically, blighty in the 80's or Australia today.

Now the Armenians - fuck me, when the shelling started it was like watching the kids in that video!

 

[Wij]

Medium sized cunt. Doesn't like the gays. Women in the home, etc. etc. Basically, blighty in the 80's or Australia today.

Now the Armenians - fuck me, when the shelling started it was like watching the kids in that video!

Many in the UK the same. My Ukrainian friend however is much nicer and so were the guys I worked with in 2015-17.

Should we call any country that has a few sexists and homophobes in a country of all cunts? Because that's all countries. Makes it a bit meaningless.

 

[Scouse]

Should we call any country that has a few sexists and homophobes in a country of all cunts? Because that's all countries. Makes it a bit meaningless.

Russia.

Don't be disingenuous about this. Ordinary Russians have been vilified and "othered" as absolutely different from Ukranians as part of jingoistic bullshit around this war. I've pushed back on tgis multiple times. The difference between average joe Ruski and Vlad the Ukranian is paper-thin.

If that was acknowledged I'd have a lot less to say.

 

[DaGaffer]

Russia.

Don't be disingenuous about this. Ordinary Russians have been vilified and "othered" as absolutely different from Ukranians as part of jingoistic bullshit around this war. I've pushed back on tgis multiple times. The difference between average joe Ruski and Vlad the Ukranian is paper-thin.

If that was acknowledged I'd have a lot less to say.

"Ordinary Russians" have enthusiastically supported Putin's adventurism for over a decade now; the contract with him basically was "you run around playing soldiers and making Russia Great AgainTM , but don't involve us in any of the messy bits and we'll let you run the country like it's your personal plaything". It's only now that they're suddenly getting conscripted, and it's happening to urban people from Moscow and St.Petersburg, not hicks from Siberia, that they're finally starting to push back. I have very little sympathy for the average Russian, and more than I had sympathy for Brits or Americans who thought Iraq 2003 was a good idea.

 

[Scouse]

"Ordinary Russians" have enthusiastically supported Putin's adventurism for over a decade now

I'm willing to roll with that despite not knowing a lot of ordinary Russians, but this...

I have very little sympathy for the average Russian, and more than I had sympathy for Brits or Americans who thought Iraq 2003 was a good idea.

Kinda proves my point. We're all the fucking same. There's nothing special about Russians, there's nothing special about Brits or Americans, there's nothing special about Ukranians.

Given media sources that say a thing, we all act and feel the same way. Our populations are largely told what to think.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm willing to roll with that despite not knowing a lot of ordinary Russians, but this...


Kinda proves my point. We're all the fucking same. There's nothing special about Russians, there's nothing special about Brits or Americans, there's nothing special about Ukranians.

Given media sources that say a thing, we all act and feel the same way. Our populations are largely told what to think.

No. Sorry, no. People marched in their millions to protest the Iraq war. It may not have done any good, but it happened. There was almost no protest in Russia, and in fact overwhelming support for the "special military operation" until it started to bite individual Russians personally.

 

[Gwadien]

No. Sorry, no. People marched in their millions to protest the Iraq war. It may not have done any good, but it happened. There was almost no protest in Russia, and in fact overwhelming support for the "special military operation" until it started to bite individual Russians personally.

I don't think that's fair - we're relatively fair to protest our Government, Russia aren't.

I suspect that probably the majority of Russians oppose the war - but don't want to risk their jobs/lives by protesting it.

Plus the majority of special military operation supporters do live out in the sticks and are neck deep in propaganda.

Quite an interesting channel about this.

The lad right at the end... look how worried he is.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToOyHmuqPoE

 

[Scouse]

There was almost no protest in Russia

For obvious reasons that we've covered before?

It's not "Russians" - it's the media environment that they're soaked in telling them what to think and feel. And lets face it - we have ample evidence (on this very forum) that their media is way worse than ours.


You could say Blighty is worse in some ways - given we protested on such a large scale and still bombed the shit out of a country and killed hundreds of thousands in a totally illegal war. But it doesn't make the public culpable - it just shows that governments are really fucking dangerous things.

 

[Scouse]

LOL

Edit: It's really funny - nobody really wants to say they're brainwashed.

But we all are. Every one of us, on some level really.

 

[Wij]

For obvious reasons that we've covered before?

It's not "Russians" - it's the media environment that they're soaked in telling them what to think and feel. And lets face it - we have ample evidence (on this very forum) that their media is way worse than ours.


You could say Blighty is worse in some ways - given we protested on such a large scale and still bombed the shit out of a country and killed hundreds of thousands in a totally illegal war. But it doesn't make the public culpable - it just shows that governments are really fucking dangerous things.

You’re moving the goalposts again. This time to the Iraq war. Which we’ve covered before. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of it it’s nothing like Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. When Western armies commit war crimes it is big news because it’s so rare. The Russian army commits them as part of its war doctrine. Rape, torture and murder aren’t the exception. They are the rule. Anyway, how does this relate to you proving that Zelenskyy is a wannabe hard man cunt who wants to become a dictator? I don’t see you getting anywhere proving that yet.

 

[Scouse]

You’re moving the goalposts again. This time to the Iraq war.

No I'm not. Gaff brought it up. You can't expect me to not respond - and it's absolutely relevant and comparable.

When Western armies commit war crimes it is big news because it’s so rare

The whole war was a crime. So for good and bad, everyone who died in Iraq was because of a war crime. - That's the frame for the Iraq war. Not whether we "conducted" it well.

(And btw - you want to lock up the people who tell us about our crimes.)

Anyway, how does this relate to you proving that Zelenskyy is a wannabe hard man cunt who wants to become a dictator? I don’t see you getting anywhere proving that yet.

There's literally nothing I can say that would make you see that because you're so rabidly partisan.

 

[Wij]

There's literally nothing I can say that would make you see that because you're so rabidly partisan.

No, it’s because you have no evidence.

 

[Scouse]

No, it’s because you have no evidence.

I love ya @Wij old bean, but you just ignore the arguments you don't want to engage with and pick other stuff to talk about.

 

[Wij]

I love ya @Wij old bean, but you just ignore the arguments you don't want to engage with and pick other stuff to talk about.

You didn't have an argument to back up your claim that Zelenskyy was a war-mongering cunt looking to be a dictator. Just something about leftists in the Greek parliament who have drunk too much Azov==Nazi koolaid.

 

[Scouse]

something about leftists in the Greek parliament who have drunk too much Azov==Nazi koolaid.

Was a significant walkout, not just leftists. And whilst I'm not saying they're nazis their neo-nazi recruitment and certainly ultra-nationalism is definitely not something to be dismissed (unless you think this is an appropriate "summer camp" for your kids?):


View: https://youtu.be/CpV16BQfbrQ

 

[Wij]

Was a significant walkout, not just leftists. And whilst I'm not saying they're nazis their neo-nazi recruitment and certainly ultra-nationalism is definitely not something to be dismissed (unless you think this is an appropriate "summer camp" for your kids?):


View: https://youtu.be/CpV16BQfbrQ

"You didn't have an argument to back up your claim that Zelenskyy was a war-mongering cunt looking to be a dictator."

That video: 13 Jul 2017
Zelenskyy elected: 21 Apr 2019

 

[Scouse]

Zelensky, sat alongside Azov Batallion, addressing Greek parliament, prompting a mass walkout because whilst they supprt Ukraine they fucking hate neo-nazis.

You can do as many flips and twists as you like but he's aligned, today, with some of the most disgusting people there are.

Unless, of course, you think the summer camp is wholesome for 9 year olds? Do you?


Edit: I mean if Jimmy Saville was still alive but hadn't fucked any kids or dead bodies since 2017, and Zelensky sat next to him to address the Greek parliament, would that be OK now?

 

[Wij]

Azov is a region, not an ideology. The soldier there was not a nazi. Zelenskyy is a Jew. The fact so many Greeks walked out is a reflection on them not Zelenskyy. The camp was nothing to do with Zelenskyy. Just some people who have seen Russians invade their neighbours and turn part of their country into mafia states.

Your argument makes no sense.

 

[Scouse]

Azov Batallion. You know it's real. They do that to kids.

It only makes no sense because you don't like it.

Is it OK to do that to kids @Wij?

 

[Wij]

Azov Batallion. You know it's real. They do that to kids.

It only makes no sense because you don't like it.

Is it OK to do that to kids @Wij?

They had been at war for 3 years when that vid was made. Do you know what kids in London sang about Germans during the blitz? It's never been state policy to do any of that. Desperate people aren't always at their best.

And reiterating again that that wasn't Zelenskyy and they have one of the lowest far-right vote shares in Europe.

But sure, say Azov again, maybe next time it will work.

 

[Scouse]

He chooses who he takes with him to speak to Parliaments.

 

[Embattle]

@Wij You know you're wasting your time, using the same level and quality of evidence that Scouse uses we can assume that besides his protestations that Scouse is a Russian stooge.

 

[Wij]

He chooses who he takes with him to speak to Parliaments.

Yes, a person fighting in Mariupol. Which is on the Sea of Azov. Do you want them to rename it so that the Kremlin will have to think up new talking points?

 

[Wij]

@Wij You know you're wasting your time, using the same level and quality of evidence that Scouse uses we can assume that besides his protestations that Scouse is a Russian stooge.

Suggesting that Ukraine should surrender in the first few days was all the evidence I need

 

[Scouse]

Yes, a person fighting in Mariupol. Which is on the Sea of Azov. Do you want them to rename it so that the Kremlin will have to think up new talking points?

That's flat out religious denial there m8.

The greek parliament walked out because of where they were from, not who they are.