United States Corrupt Twattery

[Gwadien]

The right left divide is silly, Biden was absolutely right saying Antifa is an idea not an organisation, but then white supremacy is also an idea, not an organisation.

Problem is that its hard to destroy ideas when you have a president that encourages the growth of both, directly and indirectly.

I also don't like Biden stooping the Trumps level, it sets a bad precendent for future politics. Let's not allow Trump to drag politics into the gutter long past his death. Pls.

 

[Scouse]

I also don't like Biden stooping the Trumps level

Interesting that you think he's stooping.

 

[Gwadien]

Interesting that you think he's stooping.

Interesting you hold Trump in such high regard.

 

[Scouse]

Interesting you hold Trump in such high regard.

You struggle with comprehension don't you.

Biden's a cunt. Trumps a cunt.

The last time the Democrats and Labour were in power in our respective countries nothing changed. In fact, the lack of structural reform brought about by the (notional) left when they were in power paved the way economically to what we see today.

In fact, the social straightjacket that's formed culturally came on leaps and bounds under left-leaning governments and idiots who think stopping people saying bad stuff is the way to bring about positive social change.

My opinion is that they're much of a muchness. Biden was just showing his true self in that debate. He's a bit of a cunt.

But then whoever's in power - nothing is going to really change. Dems? GOP? It's just fucking window-dressing.


What' going on now with the election is nothing more than entertainment for the masses. The rich don't give a fuck either way because both parties act in their interests, not the interests of the majority of the population.

 

[Scouse]

A facepalm's not an argument Emba...er @Gwadien

 

[Gwadien]

A facepalm's not an argument Emba...er @Gwadien

It's ironic that I've complained about Trump's use of language to heat up debates and heating up the public and then you say stuff like below in every debate, or as you call it an argument.

You struggle with comprehension don't you.

I'm not going to debate with you if you're going to use it to have a dig at me every time and no, it's not about being a snowflake, it's about decency.

 

[Job]

Bidens OK when reading script, he fails badly under direct questioning, Trump at least tries to answer the questions in his own repetitive way...which Im sure is just a mechanism because he cant think of the word.
Bidens entire approach was to blame Trump.
The msm is giving it to Biden...even the reddit liberal bubble admit he was crap.

But..
Trump asking the Proudboys to stand down but be ready is the most fucking epic thing I have ever heard in my life from a sitting president.

He certainly knows where his base is and if anything looked like a declaration of civil war that was it.

 

[Deebs]

But..
Trump asking the Proudboys to stand down but be ready is the most fucking epic thing I have ever heard in my life from a sitting president.

He certainly knows where his base is and if anything looked like a declaration of civil war that was it.

So you think that not condemning white supremacists but instead tell them to get ready is epic? You have just confirmed that you are indeed racist.

 

[Raven]

I am genuinely concerned as to what might happen if Trump loses. I wouldn't put it past him if he got Proudboys and co out with weapons. Antifa will also be out in force, it could get very nasty indeed.

 

[Scouse]

I'm not going to debate with you if you're going to use it to have a dig at me every time and no, it's not about being a snowflake, it's about decency.

Bullshit.

Interesting you hold Trump in such high regard.

Talking about what's decent - this twisting of what I said isn't tbh. Especially when you've seen me explicitly call Trump a cunt multiple times.

You do it a lot. Gaff weighed in on the last time you were making stuff up about what I said - and you just trucked on...

I was making a clear point that Biden is also a cunt - and then went to the trouble of explaining myself.



Personally, I think you're copping out and using this crap as a cover for the fact that you don't have an argument.

 

[Deebs]

Is this the 2nd debate already?

 

[Embattle]

Personally I'm thankful I don't live in the USA.

 

[Gwadien]

Bullshit.



Talking about what's decent - this twisting of what I said isn't tbh. Especially when you've seen me explicitly call Trump a cunt multiple times.

You do it a lot. Gaff weighed in on the last time you were making stuff up about what I said - and you just trucked on...

I was making a clear point that Biden is also a cunt - and then went to the trouble of explaining myself.



Personally, I think you're copping out and using this crap as a cover for the fact that you don't have an argument.

If you had a good level of comprehension you would see my argument was actually in my response to you.

Trump heats up the debates and heats up the public which has repercussions later on, it's important that democracies have world leaders that show a degree of decency to other human beings - see McCain & Obama, they despised each others politics but they had respect for each other, Trump has no respect for anyone that opposes him.

Hillary went for the gloves still on approach in the last election which allowed Trump to tear her apart, Biden is responding by fighting fire with fire, which I don't think is good for the long term of America.

Sure, I agree that Biden is a piece of the political furniture, but he's been a piece of furniture in the most powerful nation on the planet through the longest period of relative global peace. If Trump's method of conducting politics becomes mainstream and accepted then it's going to be dangerous for global peace.

 

[Scouse]

If Trump's method of conducting politics becomes mainstream and accepted then it's going to be dangerous for global peace.

More dangerous than structural imbalances that both parties are failing to do anything about?

Trump's a demagogue and the rise of demagogues is directly proportional to the level of inequality in nations. When people vote in gobby dangerous arseholes they're largely doing it because they're suffering. I'm not godwin-ing when I point this truism out.

Both the Dems and Labour have been in power for long periods of time and they've talked the talk but not walked the walk. Inequality still rose massively under both of them.

Trump is a consequence of their inaction. Voting them back in, only for them to do the same, is pointless.

Hence my point about this election being nothing more than entertainment for the masses. Nobody likes it, nobody wants to think about it - because it makes everything you've invested emotionally in absolutely pointless. People will therefore ignore the point or shoot the messenger - but it's nonetheless true.

 

[Moriath]

Personally I'm thankful I don't live in the USA.

I got a friend who hails from ZA but lives near boston Mass. and she is completely disillusioned now and is looking at which country to go settle in after her kids have finished school.
the whole american society is broken.

 

[DaGaffer]

You struggle with comprehension don't you.

Biden's a cunt. Trumps a cunt.

The last time the Democrats and Labour were in power in our respective countries nothing changed. In fact, the lack of structural reform brought about by the (notional) left when they were in power paved the way economically to what we see today.

In fact, the social straightjacket that's formed culturally came on leaps and bounds under left-leaning governments and idiots who think stopping people saying bad stuff is the way to bring about positive social change.

My opinion is that they're much of a muchness. Biden was just showing his true self in that debate. He's a bit of a cunt.

But then whoever's in power - nothing is going to really change. Dems? GOP? It's just fucking window-dressing.


What' going on now with the election is nothing more than entertainment for the masses. The rich don't give a fuck either way because both parties act in their interests, not the interests of the majority of the population.

All that matters is whether Biden is less of a cunt than Trump, and he objectively is by pretty much any measure you can think of. Trump could be tolerated if he actually delivered anything that makes the world a better place, but that was never on the cards anyway, he could even be understood if he actually delivered on any of the shitty promises that got him into office, but he hasn't even done that.

There are only two things the world can hope for post-November; the end of the most shameful presidency in American history, and hopefully a very bad end for Donald J Trump in many courtrooms

 

[Wij]

Trump is much worse than Biden. End of story.

 

[Gwadien]

More dangerous than structural imbalances that both parties are failing to do anything about?

Trump's a demagogue and the rise of demagogues is directly proportional to the level of inequality in nations. When people vote in gobby dangerous arseholes they're largely doing it because they're suffering. I'm not godwin-ing when I point this truism out.

Both the Dems and Labour have been in power for long periods of time and they've talked the talk but not walked the walk. Inequality still rose massively under both of them.

Trump is a consequence of their inaction. Voting them back in, only for them to do the same, is pointless.

Hence my point about this election being nothing more than entertainment for the masses. Nobody likes it, nobody wants to think about it - because it makes everything you've invested emotionally in absolutely pointless. People will therefore ignore the point or shoot the messenger - but it's nonetheless true.

No, not more dangerous than structural imbalances, but that's an entirely different matter to Trump making politics aggressive and dangerous.

Sure, let's deal with structural imbalances - but it'll never be achieved. Look at the past, when stuff like this has happened in the past the people have rose up collectively to fight for the peasants, the scenario we have now is the poor rising up to defend the rich, why?

Because money talks.

That's why I question your unfettered defence of 'freedom of speech' because what that means is it gives the right for the wealthy to pump billions into the internet to brainwash people into their point of view, and when people say 'hang on, that's not true though' they use the usual defence of 'YOU'RE ATTACKING OUR FREEDOMS' and when 'they' say 'our' they mean the freedoms of the rich to control and brainwash people into defending the super rich. So you're in a catch 22; you can either remove the influence of money in politics, which is going to be impossible to achieve, or you can work with the money in order to get power. You can't pick both, and if you don't pick the latter, you ain't gonna win.

But before we can address that, can we address something that's more important; peace.

Trump is encouraging divisions within America and across the world, and that's never ended well.

 

[Scouse]

No, not more dangerous than structural imbalances, but that's an entirely different matter to Trump making politics aggressive and dangerous.

Trump is a symptom of a disease. Politics inevitably becomes aggressive and dangerous because the voters vote for this sort of politician when reasonableness has been drummed out of them because of their lot in life.

Trump isn't doing that. He just IS aggressive and dangerous. The people have done this by voting him in - because of successive governments failure to take real, substantive action.

Sure, let's deal with structural imbalances - but it'll never be achieved.

Then we're fucked and we're hurtling towards increasingly aggressive and dangerous politics, the voting in of more demagogues, and the rise of facists etc.

The left's answer to the above has to be to try to ban people talking about it. But it's dumb as fuck. People will come round to nasty of their own accord based on how hard their life is.

Look at the past, when stuff like this has happened in the past the people have rose up collectively to fight for the peasants, the scenario we have now is the poor rising up to defend the rich, why?

I don't see that. I see the poor desparately holding on to the little they've got because the rich keep telling them that doing something about it will make them poorer.

That's why I question your unfettered defence of 'freedom of speech' because what that means is it gives the right for the wealthy to pump billions into the internet to brainwash people into their point of view

The rich will ALWAYS have a voice. No matter how you spin it - they exist largely in a different context.

Freedom of speech is there to protect the voice of the poor - not the rich.

The rich certainly don't support it - it's just another weapon in their arsenal.

Oh and by the way "unfettered" is just a daft way of saying you don't believe in freedom of speech. Free is free.

But before we can address that, can we address something that's more important; peace.

Trump is encouraging divisions within America and across the world, and that's never ended well.

Trump is doing what the voters who voted him in knew he would do. Nothing about his presidency has been a surprise.

See above.


Structural reform OR fucked. - and I'm saying fucked, because the Dem's and Labour aren't going to bring about structural reform. If something doesn't change we're just going to sink further into demagogary and facism. And banning people saying bad shit isn't going to help slow that decline - it's going to speed it up.

 

[Scouse]

Trump is much worse than Biden. End of story.

Trump is a cunt that doesn't care. Biden's a cunt that might care but won't actually make a difference - he gives people false hope.

Obama was just a black, more eloquent, George Bush. But in the end inequality shot through the roof under him. And we got Trump.

Kier Starmer's a cunt, because he might get voted in on a New Labour style ticket. But he won't get anything done (other than making more and more things illegal to think (like @DaGaffer's point on the left pushing for misogyny to become a "hate crime") just like New Labour.


I don't care if Trump is a despicable bastard. He clearly is. But Biden's no risk-free honey pot saviour. Even if he wins, at best he will slow the decline. Nobody has a plan to reverse it.

 

[Moriath]

At least Biden is a politician and respects and works inside those rules. Trump is just a loose cannon.

 

[Wij]

I still think Biden has some great anti-corruption ideas. Won't solve everything but better than Trump.

'Everybody is bad so why bother', is a line straight from a Putin propaganda stooge. That's what despots love. Don't carry their water for them.

 

[Scouse]

At least Biden is a politician and respects and works inside those rules. Trump is just a loose cannon.

Whilst we all get pissy and angry about Orange Man, we should be getting pissy and angry about the structural issues that have caused the voting public to put Orange Man in power in the first place.

If you get rid of Trump because he offends you but don't fix the actual problem then you fix dick all.

 

[Scouse]

I still think Biden has some great anti-corruption ideas. Won't solve everything but better than Trump.

Window dressing.

We need *structural* reform. If you don't do that then you can have as many great anti-corruption ideas as you want but the pace of the slide is going to run away with you.

'Everybody is bad so why bother', is a line straight from a Putin propaganda stooge. That's what despots love. Don't carry their water for them.

I'm not saying we shouldn't want Biden voted in - we should always prefer the less-arsehole-like than the arsehole.

But I'm saying that if he doesn't fix the structural problems then there's little point in him.

That doesn't make me a propagandist - it makes me a realist, instead of a fantasist.

Inequality is the scourge of our age - it's fucking everything from the mythical social contract to the environment, law and order, yadda yadda yadda. If you're not all about fixing that then you're just pissing in the wind.

 

[DaGaffer]

Trump is a cunt that doesn't care. Biden's a cunt that might care but won't actually make a difference - he gives people false hope.

Obama was just a black, more eloquent, George Bush. But in the end inequality shot through the roof under him. And we got Trump.

Kier Starmer's a cunt, because he might get voted in on a New Labour style ticket. But he won't get anything done (other than making more and more things illegal to think (like @DaGaffer's point on the left pushing for misogyny to become a "hate crime") just like New Labour.


I don't care if Trump is a despicable bastard. He clearly is. But Biden's no risk-free honey pot saviour. Even if he wins, at best he will slow the decline. Nobody has a plan to reverse it.

You're doing what you always do; making an argument for something you can't have and isn't on the agenda; its completely pointless in the context of the election we have, not the one you want.

 

[Gwadien]

You're doing what you always do; making an argument for something you can't have and isn't on the agenda; its completely pointless in the context of the election we have, not the one you want.

Especially in the climate of the poor defending the rich.

That needs to change.

Problem is that Democrats/Labour also are influenced/ran by rich people.

 

[Scouse]

You're doing what you always do; making an argument for something you can't have and isn't on the agenda; its completely pointless in the context of the election we have, not the one you want.

I'm making an argument for the only thing that will make any long term difference.

If we don't make structural changes then sooner or later we'll become victims to a demagogue of the kind that we're less than a hundred years shot of. Only this time he'll have the weaponry to do real damage to the actual species.

If we're not talking about that - and putting Trump and his asshattery into a sensible perspective - then our society is just a bunch of collective ostriches.


It may be futile to say this in the context of the US election - but it absolutely needs to be pointed out.

Mankind really loves to lie to itself that it's not really in the shit. Well it is - and the US election ain't going to fix that. We need to realise this on a collective level.

 

[Deebs]

I'm making an argument for the only thing that will make any long term difference.

If we don't make structural changes then sooner or later we'll become victims to a demagogue of the kind that we're less than a hundred years shot of. Only this time he'll have the weaponry to do real damage to the actual species.

If we're not talking about that - and putting Trump and his asshattery into a sensible perspective - then our society is just a bunch of collective ostriches.


It may be futile to say this in the context of the US election - but it absolutely needs to be pointed out.

Mankind really loves to lie to itself that it's not really in the shit. Well it is - and the US election ain't going to fix that. We need to realise this on a collective level.

I have some crayons, placards and bits of wood for you if you want them.

There is no way mankind is going to change until something catastrophic happens.

 

[Scouse]

There is no way mankind is going to change until something catastrophic happens.

I agree. I've stated on many occasions that we're fucked. That we don't make it.

We're in that sort of endgame though - if we go down the global conflict route (obviously post our decent into outright Facism - which is currently on the cards) with what we've got at our disposal now then it's not something we recover from.

But it's worse than that - apart from the conflict thing and the (existential) environmental issues that inequality makes difficult to fix, there's an absolute ton of shit that we're doing that has the potential to end us. - and if we can't make our politics work in a way that allows us to manage this like rational beings then we're fucked.


So maybe I'm the beardy fucker with a sign. But unlike the hobos in the films with the mental issues this one's right. All you well-dressed lot obsessing over the US election like it matters in the slightest (it really doesn't in the big scheme of things) are just pissing your life up against the wall like a bunch of mad weirdos.

You just don't look the part

 

[Yoni]

It is not that no one gets it it is the fact that we are where we are there is an election in November and the less worse twat needs to be voted in - What you are doing up there with Gwad is really irrelevenet to the now and tbh boring to trawl through.

I watched a lot of lats night and Trump was a fucking disgrace and Biden was a disgrace. As for the white supremisist issue - Trump is running scared that he will lose his grass root voters - but to deflect focus on facts that have been completely disproven was really foul play....

Biden was right about one very important issue - Donald Trump whether now or in 4 years will be remembered in history as the worst presendent the US has ever known..