to sad guy: Aragone

[Xero-X]

Originally posted by old.Arya
and btw anybody who already has an item and still participates in the Lottery ... well kinda unfair

dont agree with that at all , if an item gets dropped and u would like why not go for it ?

Originally posted by eleasias
Not according to Cuth & Xero

u should really stop been so bitter about this eleasias , we all agreed that it was fair the way we settled the vest drop , and i got a "gratz" from everyone else who wanted that vest except u

I even got a msg saying " gratz im glad u got that vest instead of eleasias" , not going to say who it was

 

[old.Machiavelli npv]

I wasn't playing at the time yesterday so I can only go on what’s been said here.

First of all I'd like to point out that removing a guild from the alliance was never part of the rules. Whilst in Na Fianna I clearly recall that the punishment for spamming alliance was to be a demotion if that member. The removal of Happy Horny Hibbies from the alliance is a totally arbitrary and incorrect course of action.

It seems clear that Lofff wasn't asking for something for himself, but was rather sticking up for someone else. If this is indeed the case then I fully support Lofff.

It would appear that Lofff tried to discuss the problem in the chat group and come to some sort of agreement.

If Aragone did indeed log out as stated then Lofff raising the issue on /as is a justified course of action and does not constitute spam as no one objected to it being used for the raid earlier and Lofff only sought to discuss the problem. This does appear to be something of a double standard.

I am assuming that most of the problem relates to the abuse and argument that followed in /as. If Lofff did repeatedly argue in /as then I agree that this is wrong and should be dealt with. However, if Lofff is correct that he was called 'greedy' and other insults followed then those responsible should be subject to the same punishment.

I will be looking into the facts of this situation in game and discussing it with various people before deciding what steps to take.

__________________

Machiavelli - Level 50 Eldritch - Grove Protector
(npv = Non Plagiarised Version.)
Proud member of *** Happy Horny Hibbies ***

Slartybartfast - Level 33 Nightshade - Machiavelli Protector

Hibernia , Excalibur.

 

[old.Verata]

I'd like to comment on Dach's post as well. Heard today that a Hauberk of the Wretched dropped off Legion last night. Hell, I've been on every Legion/prince raid since patch day in the hope of getting that hauberk - it's the only item in the game I'm still after. Last night it eventually drops (the one raid I don't go on - figures) and it ends up going to a lvl 42 char? I'm all for a lottery system, but an AF102 item going to a lvl 42 char is a bit ridiculous. Now I've heard he 's gonna trade it? Come on...

Shouldn't there be some kind of rule that Legion drops (not Prince drops) only be made available to lvl 48+ ? At least then it will go to someone who can use it.

 

[old.giriam]

Originally posted by Xero-X
dont agree with that at all , if an item gets dropped and u would like why not go for it ?

are you talking about a person that allready has the item or a person that has gotten a drop from the same raid earlier? ever heard about need before greed?

G

 

[Kobold]

Omg, 58 replies

Well, if Aragone had made it clear that he wanted that drop from from the start becouse he leaded the raid it would never been a CG about it, and peeps would have accepted that (even if it's a dam stupid rule imo, wonder who made it...). But he DIDN'T! And then he should act like an adult and face it that someone was more lucky than him this time. Cause why the hell do he deserve something more than Werga, Loff and me when all need it just as much.....becouse the majorety of the high lvl peeps is in his guild? He arrange the raid yeh, but he wasn't alone on the raid. And all the hibs that helped used just as much time on it as him, so it's obious that all that can use/needs an item do a fair lottery about it.

old.lewstherin No its should b an unwritten rule... results on a legion raid 10-20 drops... imo the tanks in the CG should have all said "aragone nice raid ... u should have the hammer u deserve it most". Or something like that. I never had to say anything. THose ppl I was in Cg with all agreed I should have the hammer all civil and friendly.

bah...

old.giriam My 2 cents on the issue:

the organizer is pretty much free to do whatever he wants with the drops. if you dont like the distribution policy then dont join the raid. on the other hand it would be smart to to announce that "i will take one item for myself" or "all drops will be salvaged and used to repair the doors on dagda" or whatever your goal is BEFORE you come to the point where loot is distributed.

Oh I bet many would have joined that raid

Verena I can't believe all this argueing about a stupid drop. Reading some of the replies of CF members is even more disgracefull.

He was in a lottery, they all picked a number. He lost and runs off.

What is so hard about it to see that he didn't deserve it. You can organize raids every single day but remember that allthough you're the one that's organizing it, you'll never be able to kill Legion alone.

All who attend should get a fair share of the loot, organizer or not. The best way to keep it fair is to organize a lottery and when someone looses in lotto and runs off it's shouldn't be too hard to figure out who's at fault here.

1 more point. You think it's strange that people are holding grudges against CF when you have wankers like tzeentch replying so childish to a very sensitive issue.

And blaming his vocal abilities for running off is the funniest thing i've ever heard. If he can organize a legion raid then discussing about a drop shouldn't be too hard either. .

Gorguss
We already agreed that IF and only IF he had notified people when the raid started that he will be keeping the hammer for himself, then it was ok. It's rather unfair to keep all those players that risk their lives(at least exp) to help in the raid in the dark of what will happen to the drops. At least then they will have the oppertunity to decide wether or not they want to use their time on this.

That is at least my opinion.

wise words, at least some peeps with brain here

Sorry for all those quotes and long post but gotta have and end of this mess. Aragone should lend over the dam hammer to the one that won teh lottery (me in this case, but really doesn't matter. I would all wrote the same if it was Werga or Loff that won), and if he decide to go the childish way and just keep it and refuse to give it away, sadly it's nothing to do about it cause only he can access his own account. But if so I'm pretty sure he uses lots of popularety points in hib.

Reminds me of some later days when some n00b in CM got a drop in group and just logged with it even if he didn't need it.....he hardly ever got agroup again.

So it's up to you Aragone what you choose, if you choose to keep it, gratz with a nice weapon, but you gotta live with with that you did not win it fairly. And if you decide to give it to the winner of the lottery, /salute to you, cause you learned something important in life from all this, like honesty, trust, empaty etc ...big step forward to being a nice and respected person and a good friend.

end of this thread

 

[Treson]

We are 50+ ppl going for Legion all makes an effort and we do it together, we kill him together we kill the mobs to get to Legion etc.

No i dont think its fair that ppl who has already gotten a Legion drop can at next raid try for another. That way the items will never reach many enough.

Yes we all would probebly like to go for each and every drop there is, but is it right that suddenly 1 peep can have 2-3 legion drops when many others have none?

And besides cmon guys were flaming the guys giving out the candy, how smart is that :/ I would rather have a chance for candy then none at all, ore no going for candy at all.


And organizing raids may seem easy, but it aint always like that. Ive gotten many times frustrated from trying to make a raid for only 2 groups.. Ive stopped doing that(maybe i suck at it.. ). Even though of what ive seen from all the legion raids, ppl have been nice during the raid.

Well we all worked for the items, we all fighted, spent time, died etc. to kill Legion, so i can understand why Greed ore lust comes for the Items. We are all equal in this raids, we all do a good job. So i can understand those who get nothing in 5-6 raids. That they get abit frustrated..

And what happend with that hammer and Aragone is more then enough to trigger it off.

Well i just had to jion the discussion

 

[old.Trapp|Uberleech]

It's kinda greedy to roll for an item when you alrdy got one in the same raid, but as we have no clear rules for these things noone can blame anyone doing so.

How about we make some kind of official rules to use for these situations. Here is just a proposal:

All items should be distributed through copperroll/lottery.

If raid leader has not claimed beforehand that he wants a specific item, then that item is also subject for roll/lottery.

Only 45+ players can participate in rolling.

If you recieved an item then you are out and can't recieve another one.

 

[old.Aragone]

here gos nothing....

As posted above i havent posted this erlyer becuas i have had no time for this befor now sorry to have keep you waiting kobold……….

to fade: ofcours ile be doing more raids if ppl stil wanne follow me after this big mess.

ok first of all i did say in broad that i wanted the hammer and that as aranger i had chosen this drop like the other arangers had don befor me. som other lw users did not agre with me and started a cg for a lottery enyway at the time i was being spammed by 50% of the over 100 ppl that had attended the raid asking for lott cg’s, drop stats ……. So I joined the cg and told them there would be no lottery caus the drop was alredy sorted and said that i was sorry for the mess up then after a few mins i left it and they went on with the cg enyways even after i told them there would be no lottery, i was not in the cg while they aparently did a lottery and do not understand whye they would say that i was.

I gave all seals that i had to omega ( ca 150 seals) to be sorted caus i had to log the time was 1.00 cet. Time and i had to be up at 6.00 and go to school thats whye i logged it was not 2 avoide the discusion!
At the 2 other raids the arangers picked a drop for them selvs like i did at my 2. raid at the 2 other raids everyone agred to let the arangers get the drop chosen and thats how it should be as a thanks to the aranger who has spent most of his day aranging the raid taking keeps in the last minute while other ppl were just in df waiting fore us instead of helping amongst other things…..

You can now ask eny questions you would like to know if ive not alredy incloded them in my post.


Plz bare with my spelling caus thats not on of my strong sides.

 

[old.psychic]

Aragone organised the raid because he wanted that hammer, and as the other arrangers he thought that he was in title to pick a drop as organiser, but i guess some other rules goes for him or?

He didn't didn't accept the lottery , he wasn't even there when you did it, he was on his way to hand over seals to Omega.

He thought that ppl knew that he was gonna pick a drop, because it was done in previos raids, and that ppl knew that. it might be a stupid rule, but hey it aint easy to arrange even though some ppl think it is.

 

[old.lewstherin]

well sorrie lofff for talking shit about u.... I wasnt even online and I just drew conlctions from the things Ive read on IRC and this forum.

 

[old.lewstherin]

Aragone... I dint just pick up the LWs... ppl said I should have had them. First time in broad... 2nd time in the melle CG... and I gave away the first drop on the 2nd raid ... those are the facts..

 

[inuyasha]

more

I do not really say why Lofff is mentioned in any other way then as one of several people replying to this. Werga was the leader of the tank CG, and Lofff made it perfectly clear in every word and post he have made and said, that he do not say any of this to get nor whine about the drop, but simply have to say it becase he felt this system was totaly out of hand. He posted this in the alliance chat for people to know about it, and you remove his guilds rights to the whole alliance chat? I mean, serioiusly, do you not have any respect for the alliance at all, if the alliance members and officers have a complainment about the a member in the alliance leadership guild, then for god sake take that serious, do not panic becase you think he is spoiling your reputation, but take it serious. I heard the comments from several of your members, telling you automaticly belived he did this out of greed and to whine, but i do indeed not have the slightest clue where you get that though from?

Further on, some people have claimed that we should not blame the whole Celtic Fist for his acts, and of course no one does that. However how Celtic Fist reacts to this is essential for what we might think about them. And yet, what have happened is that the first one to complain about it, got flamed and removed from the alliance chat, one of your most active members have said from that start that the whole thing will be overlooked completly (yes tzzench) and to make it all complete, the member have not been seen since.

How much he may deserve the item or not, is not the matter to discuss. If all raid leaders SHOULD have the right to get one, is a question that might be answered, and that he might want it and maby deserve it becase of the two successfull raids might indeed be true, but what we are speaking of here is not who deserve it, but who have the rights for it. And since not anyone on that raid, in the group or elsewhere did know about this beforehand, it seems quite obvious to me that he have no claim of this item what so ever. Most people agree that it would have been his if he told everyone, that is a known fact, but he did not, and that is where the whole discussion lays. Kobold for one would not have bothered to do this, becase this is the only item in this game that he is still looking for, and he won the poll...and on /who aragone is in connacht, and logs there.

As several people have already mentioned, it is no great problem to arrange just another raid and go get the item. If he next time make the claim beforehand on next raid, he will get the hammer in a matter of days. But if he keeps it now, his name is spoiled to some people, and others even may come to blame celtic fist as a whole. I will not be one of those, i assure you, since i know that celtic fist have a highly democratic leadership, that makes it harder to make any reaction to this or any matter, and that you have so many members I fully understands you have a problem controlling them all.

Another thing about this "it was in the middle of the night, i got school and such" I just want to mention i logged in here at half past midnight last night to speak with you aragone, and i stayed online speaking with your members, leaders, and spoke on the forum til at least half past 4 in the morning, and i had school at 8, so i assume i know of what you speak. Sleep is not as important as the fairness of this, and i am not even involed in the matter.

Inuyasha

 

[old.Pempula]

Re: here gos nothing....

Originally posted by old.Aragone
As posted above i havent posted this erlyer becuas i have had no time for this befor now sorry to have keep you waiting kobold……….

to fade: ofcours ile be doing more raids if ppl stil wanne follow me after this big mess.

ok first of all i did say in broad that i wanted the hammer and that as aranger i had chosen this drop like the other arangers had don befor me. som other lw users did not agre with me and started a cg for a lottery enyway at the time i was being spammed by 50% of the over 100 ppl that had attended the raid asking for lott cg’s, drop stats ……. So I joined the cg and told them there would be no lottery caus the drop was alredy sorted and said that i was sorry for the mess up then after a few mins i left it and they went on with the cg enyways even after i told them there would be no lottery, i was not in the cg while they aparently did a lottery and do not understand whye they would say that i was.

I gave all seals that i had to omega ( ca 150 seals) to be sorted caus i had to log the time was 1.00 cet. Time and i had to be up at 6.00 and go to school thats whye i logged it was not 2 avoide the discusion!
At the 2 other raids the arangers picked a drop for them selvs like i did at my 2. raid at the 2 other raids everyone agred to let the arangers get the drop chosen and thats how it should be as a thanks to the aranger who has spent most of his day aranging the raid taking keeps in the last minute while other ppl were just in df waiting fore us instead of helping amongst other things…..

You can now ask eny questions you would like to know if ive not alredy incloded them in my post.


Plz bare with my spelling caus thats not on of my strong sides.

I don't really know what happened on the raid or with the lottery (just wasn't there), but after 'reading' your post, Aragone, I certainly understand that you should spend some more time at school .

 

[old.Ailelun]

IMO: Into what Aragone did, I cant understand why. I Personally Think, Personally being the main word there, That Aragone should of been given the hammer anway, Without Fuss or what not, for Organising the raid, which must of been quite a hard job with so many people, and the last one to, But what I dont agree with is how is took the hammer, If people did disagree about giving him the hammer, which the majority didnt it 'should' of gone to a fair lotto etc, but his last actions were wrong, and I cant think of much more to say on the matter..

 

[old.Aragone]

plz ...

to: inuyasha:
my post is right above youres might be smart to red it befor you say you havent herd from me sinc yesterday

 

[old.Aragone]

....

ile be taking the train home now if that is ok ile be back on in 1 houre.

 

[old.psychic]

Noo you cant do that, what if the train crashes and you die! what about the hammer are you crazy... life will be over for all LW's users shite... now post your password and acc name! for the sake of god!

 

[old.Machiavelli npv]

Its been said here that we shouldn't judge Celtic Fist by the actions of 1 person.

Yet 1 guild, namely Happy Horny Hibbies, has been judged on the actions of 1 person and punished even though on further investigation that persons actions seem justified.

If any of the other guild leaders disagree with this unwarranted punishment then please contact me in game or irc.


__________________

Machiavelli - Level 50 Eldritch - Grove Protector
(npv = Non Plagiarised Version.)
Proud member of *** Happy Horny Hibbies ***

Slartybartfast - Level 33 Nightshade - Machiavelli Protector

Hibernia , Excalibur.

 

[HargloweHyfryd]

Machiavelli, I just mentioned the same thing on the CF private-boards.
I know I am not one of the GM's but I hope it will be looked into and put right.

 

[old.DachraK]

Well i heard it was alrdy talked out by our GM's afterwards, but had to be continued on another time machi ???

 

[Anu]

In answer to the person that moaned about LOWER level players that got drops after the raid..

Well at lvl 35 I can res lvl 50's and Heal very well IMO so if i go on a legion raid and rez and heal just like any other healer then i'd better be bloody included in a lottery for drops..

Weather i can use this item straight away or not or weather i decide to trade it doesn't matter.. the fact is i was entiled to be in the lottery for the drops.

^^ that is one point that really pisses me off tbh.

Thankfully Brennik (sorry if miss spelt) has not forgotten about me and a few other LOWER lvl players and been included in the lottery's.

======================================
As to the Aragone thing.. me persoanlly think he should keep it as i've had some Fun the last 2nights on keep raids to open DF then onto legion raids.

 

[Lethania.]

Aragone if yo look at the time of your and Inuys post its the same time.. so he did not see you pose while typing hes own

 

[old.giriam]

Originally posted by old.Eternal[EW]
Oh I bet many would have joined that raid

nope, probably not. but my point is that if someone wants to make a raid like that who are any of us to stop them? as long as they made this clear to people that joined it would be a-ok.

G

 

[old.Pempula]

Well, many people have wasted time on this thread while we could be ganking legion for more of those rare drops. I hope all the LW users will get the weapon they need in the end and all hibs end up with the best possible weapon/equipment for them. I don't care who is wielding the überweaps as long as its a hib swinging it at an alb/mid.

 

[old.giriam]

Originally posted by Anu
In answer to the person that moaned about LOWER level players that got drops after the raid..

Well at lvl 35 I can res lvl 50's and Heal very well IMO so if i go on a legion raid and rez and heal just like any other healer then i'd better be bloody included in a lottery for drops..

Totally agree on this, if you are invited to join the raid. its usually more a matter of people being told 2-3 times that "this is a raid for 40+ only, please dont follow" (or whatever) but still comming along. those people (if they want to follow then noone can stop them) shouldnt expect drops. if you are invited because you can contribute thats a whole other story.

and please (this is not noted twoards anu but people in general) please dont call me an elitest for supporting a minimum level requirement on raids, i would love it if the entire realm and our aunts and everything could go together, but there is such a thing as lag.

G

 

[lofff]

.me still needs sum clearing up bout my "lynching". Lets say that getting my name dusted and my guild booted just bcoz of trying to make things work fair as they should do is not the best of the feelings.

Aragone: u can go and eat ur new hammer, u are now the first and the only one in my /ignore. Real shame.

Kobold (Eternal): Legion aint that bad mofo and we'll get u a hammer soon, musta say i do feel preety sorry and even useless not been able to solve ur problem.

Inuyasha: thx for the support, pity having to meet u in such a sad subject.

Lews: thx for the apologies, all of us can missbehave while typing in rage i understand it but next time ill rape u

/as thing was weird, its a guild thing and am so pissed than i've decided to leave it on machi's hands (tbh mika and mentol will have to give their sight too)


ps: Nova and others who bullshitted bout me, am still waiting for ur explanation. Otherway get lost.

ps2: Ill organize a Legion raid prolly this nite (if theres not another alrdy setted) and there wont b any of those awesome rules of urs just fair play. Big efforts get prizes sumtimes, when ppl agrees on that effort and that prize not otherway.

 

[old.Aragone]

lofff.......

i never gave you eny shit and i newer would i always liked you and proly always wil i did not want youre guild 2 be kicked and am sorry of all the mess.

 

[old.Arya]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by old.Arya
and btw anybody who already has an item and still participates in the Lottery ... well kinda unfair
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Xero-X


dont agree with that at all , if an item gets dropped and u would like why not go for it ?

Well you have 2 then and others 0 ??????? Simply not fair IMO. But I didn't think peeps that actually do that would understand what I mean.

 

[Kobold]

/em gives everyone a big smelly firby hug

lets play DAoC and have fun

 

[Son]

I am kinda glad I logged before you lot went for Legion! DF has brought out the greedy side in everyone

Dunno whats happening at moment, just read all 4 pages of this and am now speaking to Gray about what happened.

Hopefully it can be sorted asap with everybody happy.

And thanks Loff for slagging us off in English in /as. Last person that did it did so in Swdish and we had several different translations