To restore balance...

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by old.anubis
well, they will get nerfed, are you happy?

healer mend = cleric rejuv
healer mezz < sorc mezz (range, radius, delve, everything is worse on mid)

why do you compare shaman with friar ffs???
you say shaman > friar, i say shaman < cleric, so?
imo friar is the second class in teh game to be nerfed (after chanter)

mincer > skald (ablative chant, insta 9 sec stun, sos, kkthxbye)

actually i think

healer mend/druid regrowth < cleric rejuv

but:

3x healer > 2clerics/sorc or 2druids/bard

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Gahldir
actually i think

healer mend/druid regrowth < cleric rejuv

but:

3x healer > 2clerics/sorc or 2druids/bard

why not 3 druids

why do you insist in comparing 2 druids and a bard to 3 healers when hibs can field 3 droods and a bard perfectly well.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Rollie
tbh if my pac healer used insta mezz ona group id quit the group cause its just asking to die fast, as for insta stun, 44 pac, 30 mend spec gives 150 radius insta stun which will last full effect on 1 person, and effect 2-3 max. They are both useless tbh, i would trade bolt range mezz and mezz reduction over them anyday of the week.

Also the ones that do insta mezz you i bet die

obviously it works good enough for the good mid groups.

hell, i have even been insta stuned followed up by insta mezz!!!

and yeah, you'd think that all those who do use insta mezz dies, but the brutale reality is that it gives the mid group a few secs to get into possition wich sometimes are all the advantage that they need.

 

[parzi]

Originally posted by Gahldir
have you played support in albion or hibernia?

imo, healers and also shammans are the real power behind the savages.

Zerkergroups would prolly still be better then any hib/alb group. And wasn't it for the fact that savages dps is much better then zerkers you'd prolly see it aswell.

i played hib and mid, and tbh i think hib support is not much worse. when the attack speed debuff will no longer interupt, the dr00d pets will be worth more... with 3 healers shammie skald you will almost get the same things than 3 dr00ds bard eld. 3 pets more on hibside, ae stun mid for example but if you look at the whole picture it seems equal to me.

if you look at albs smite line, oh well now that suxx (ok the enhance line is a bit better there mayb but that doesnt make up for it).

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Gahldir
obviously it works good enough for the good mid groups.

hell, i have even been insta stuned followed up by insta mezz!!!

and yeah, you'd think that all those who do use insta mezz dies, but the brutale reality is that it gives the mid group a few secs to get into possition wich sometimes are all the advantage that they need.

i think you need to sort your groups better if you die to insta mezz with 150 radius, no offence intended

with 3 droods, 1 bard 4 det tanks you shouldnt lose to insta mezz.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Rollie
yes i have thx, why dont you run with 3 droods and a bard? that gives you equal healing power to a middy group, and you also get 4 det tanks which mid groups cant have if they have 3 healers.

Anyhows bards get insta mezz as well, and tbh id love it if they used it more than the casted one as i said most healers specc 44 pac which gives a 150 radius insta mezz/stun, if yoiu die to that you need help.

actually 3 druids would prolly have more healing power then 3 healers. but it's hard enough to get 2 druids as it is. mind the fact that hibernia started to run with 2 druids later then midgard started to run with 3 healers. Haven't had time to actually test it enough times to say if it works in reality or not tho. I mean, on paper, 7 savages + skald and quite a few BBs would prolly pwn a FG easy.

And yes, we need help, but not in the way you are thinking.

 

[indeed]

take away healers heal spells as well imo. Its unbalanced having a class that has two abilities, heal and cc.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Gahldir
actually 3 druids would prolly have more healing power then 3 healers. but it's hard enough to get 2 druids as it is. mind the fact that hibernia started to run with 2 druids later then midgard started to run with 3 healers. Haven't had time to actually test it enough times to say if it works in reality or not tho. I mean, on paper, 7 savages + skald and quite a few BBs would prolly pwn a FG easy.

And yes, we need help, but not in the way you are thinking.

Tbh you cant complain about another class just cause you dont have enough in your own groups/guild/realm. If i played hib i would make sure my group had 3 droods, if each char in the group had purge and the droods had GP also, you should have no problems with CC especially with 4 det tanks.

 

[Gahldir]

Re: Re: Re: Re: To restore balance...

Originally posted by parzi
mid lacks of actively played shamans, and even lacks more of GOOD shamans
the role of the shammie is so much underestimated imo. noticed that as we got no active guild shaman atm. if the shaman plays shitte, well, he dies fast = tanks no end, enemys not diseased but own tanks diseased = the tanks wont be able to kill shit.
also np plays fotm grps ? as far as i have seen it was ~1 savage most of the time. can hardly call that a fotm grp imo.
anyway giv more good shamans. with 2 active guild shamans we pharmed ~4,5 mil rp in a week now its 1,5 ;(

so my respect goes out to all good shammies out there \o/ they are much more than endurance buffers , imo almost as important as a good pac healer or even more since disease is the best cc atm imo vs tank grps.

think they have 2 fotm savage quite often now my point is that every other fotm group is killable.

but you are prolly right about the shamans. but healers are still important.

it's actually rather rare that I am interupted vs other mid groups then those i mentioned unless i have a tank on me

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by indeed
take away healers heal spells as well imo. Its unbalanced having a class that has two abilities, heal and cc.

bard?
druid?



yeah remove the druids cc line also, those classes will be really fun then.....................................................

bard?
druid?

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by Rollie
why not 3 druids

why do you insist in comparing 2 druids and a bard to 3 healers when hibs can field 3 droods and a bard perfectly well.

i compair 2 druids and 1 bard since the bard has the best compairable CC to what a pac healer has.

and yes, we can do that on papre. but I wouldn't say it does work perfectly well nor would i say it's pure shit. cuz atm it is very hard to get 2 druids into a group as it is.

prolly cuz hib started to run with more then 1 druid later then midgard started to run with more then 2 healers.

another thing is that we's have a to have a warden in such group if we do want to have the CC resist buffs. else I'd be mezzed for ages if GP is down.

tho pretty rare when 3 druids.

 

[Ekydus]

Make everyone a grey doll with no face, all the same height and with 1 spell each that hits for the same damage every time.

This war is getting very fucking boring.

 

[Gahldir]

Originally posted by parzi
i played hib and mid, and tbh i think hib support is not much worse. when the attack speed debuff will no longer interupt, the dr00d pets will be worth more... with 3 healers shammie skald you will almost get the same things than 3 dr00ds bard eld. 3 pets more on hibside, ae stun mid for example but if you look at the whole picture it seems equal to me.

if you look at albs smite line, oh well now that suxx (ok the enhance line is a bit better there mayb but that doesnt make up for it).

yepp, after the haste debuff nerf it will prolly get much better

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by Gahldir
cuz atm it is very hard to get 2 druids into a group as it is.

tho pretty rare when 3 druids. [/B]

this is not a problem of midgard, i say 3 druids 1 bard as that covers the same basic essential skills as 3 healers, shammie.

get people in your guild to roll more droods if you struggle for them.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Rollie
why not 3 druids

why do you insist in comparing 2 druids and a bard to 3 healers when hibs can field 3 droods and a bard perfectly well.

The damage output by the 4 det tanks in hib is not even close to the damage output from the mid fotm classes. Mid classes will take support down faster and easier, Savages can interrupt from a distance which hib det tanks cannot.

Please don't force me to exlpain...

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by old.Nol
The damage output by the 4 det tanks in hib is not even close to the damage output from the mid fotm classes. Mid classes will take support down faster and easier, Savages can interrupt from a distance which hib det tanks cannot.

Please don't force me to exlpain...

savages are being fixed, they are too powerful, but even if groups were running 1 warrior, 2 zerks you would complain 3 healers is too much even though you can field 3 droods very easy.

 

[parzi]

imo after 1,65 stlong SM whajns inc, imo sm will be next fotm =)

when baod will be applied after the standard resists and savages will be nerfed im sure more mids will bring out pbae grps. the pets intercept for the sm's very nice etc, and most grps dont even have spirit resistance any longer (no warden)

good demezz needed though for that since no det and no grp purge ;P but with some shieldtanks added that grp will be a bitch to kill with pbae and guard and intercepting pets imo.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by parzi
imo after 1,65 stlong SM whajns inc, imo sm will be next fotm =)

when baod will be applied after the standard resists and savages will be nerfed im sure more mids will bring out pbae grps. the pets intercept for the sm's very nice etc, and most grps dont even have spirit resistance any longer (no warden)

good demezz needed though for that since no det and no grp purge ;P but with some shieldtanks added that grp will be a bitch to kill with pbae and guard and intercepting pets imo.

aye i agree, after 1.65 it will be warriors+sm are too overpowered nerf them and its not fair 3 healers ina group nerf them, i saw a thane solo at mmg, nerf him.

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Rollie
savages are being fixed, they are too powerful, but even if groups were running 1 warrior, 2 zerks you would complain 3 healers is too much even though you can field 3 droods very easy.

The point was, however, that you said hibs can run melee groups too, and I said that hib melee groups would not compete and told you why. Now you say hibs can run melee groups when savages get nerfed, so what, how exactly does that help right now?

I doubt very much whether we would compain because the playing field would be level, naturally we complain when one class is so glaringly overpowered.

 

[Pandemic]

heh heh yeah that sm+warrior combo is pretty sweet not that warriors will be nerfed we are kinda imune

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by old.Nol
The point was, however, that you said hibs can run melee groups too, and I said that hib melee groups would not compete and told you why. Now you say hibs can run melee groups when savages get nerfed, so what, how exactly does that help right now?

I doubt very much whether we would compain because the playing field would be level, naturally we complain when one class is so glaringly overpowered.

you can run melee groups and compete, the only guild who ive seen run 3savages lately is JH, NP has had warriors/zerks in there groups maybe the odd savage.

We run with mixed tanks savage/zerk/warrior and we lose to hibs 50/50 depending on ra's/instas, i think you over exaggerate a great deal tbh.

You are basing your post on 1 guild JH, most others dont run 3 savages, well not from what ive seen.

Hibs can run melee groups fine, you can field 4 deter tanks and 3 droods, mids cant field 4 det tanks if they field 3 healers.

 

[Pandemic]

btw the game isnt meant to be all that balanced class wise as midgard are meant to have the best fighter classes but the poorest magic, hibernia are meant to have the worst fighter classes and the best magic, and i guess albion were meant to be average at both

so for me it should be

warrior > armsmen > hero

 

[Cawr]

To restore balance...

...blow up France!

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Garnet
Augmentation line on healer sucks ass, I know i used to have 37 aug. Enhance line on cleric > Augmentation at the moment. To make augmentation more attractive would be to increase the celeritys range to 1500 or so AND/OR turn it into a instant cast instead of a 2 - 3 second cast.

Basicly augmentation is a self support line for the healer which hardly has any use in rvr except resists and the odd celerity, even though i heard celerity nerfs tanks damage per hit.

Yes it sucks when you dont have buffbots, but mid groups suck without buffbots. So given that you have a buffbot you can ignore all the buff spells with no range limit. Thusly a healer has celerity and resist buffs (and a few self things) and a cleric has spec af, heal proc buff and resist buffs (and a self dps buff). Almost identical in fact I would prefer haste over heal proc and spec af.

tbh if my pac healer used insta mezz ona group id quit the group cause its just asking to die fast, as for insta stun, 44 pac, 30 mend spec gives 150 radius insta stun which will last full effect on 1 person, and effect 2-3 max. They are both useless tbh, i would trade bolt range mezz and mezz reduction over them anyday of the week.

I would trade bolt range mezz and mezz reduction for 4 insta cc spells anyday of the week as well . Successfully landing either of the single insta's on a sorc wins you the first mezz and makes it very hard for the sorc to survive the 3 savages closing down on him at ss6. Ae stun on or near the sorc then casted mezz on top alone is better than both mezz reduction and bolt range mezz combined.

so for me it should be

warrior > armsmen > hero

If that held true then Eld > Wizard > SM
SM is probably the strongest of the 3, mostly due to the intercepting pet and ae str/con debuff and insta haste debuff.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by hotrat
Yes it sucks when you dont have buffbots, but mid groups suck without buffbots. So given that you have a buffbot you can ignore all the buff spells with no range limit. Thusly a healer has celerity and resist buffs (and a few self things) and a cleric has spec af, heal proc buff and resist buffs (and a self dps buff). Almost identical in fact I would prefer haste over heal proc and spec af.

I would trade bolt range mezz and mezz reduction for 4 insta cc spells anyday of the week as well . Successfully landing either of the single insta's on a sorc wins you the first mezz and makes it very hard for the sorc to survive the 3 savages closing down on him at ss6. Ae stun on or near the sorc then casted mezz on top alone is better than both mezz reduction and bolt range mezz combined.

If that held true then Eld > Wizard > SM
SM is probably the strongest of the 3, mostly due to the intercepting pet and ae str/con debuff and insta haste debuff.

HOtrat i think you really need to go play a healer, you have no idea how useless those instas are nowadays, go play a lv50 healer and then come back and tell me those instas rock.

I like the were running at speed6 and i manage to select the sorc out with a 150 radius or single stun......riiiiiiigggghhhhttt, instead of constantly commenting on the healer and the pac line hotrats go play one and then come back.

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Rollie
HOtrat i think you really need to go play a healer, you have no idea how useless those instas are, go play a lv50 healer and then come back and tell me those instas rock.

Being on the receiving end numerous times I am well aware of how powerful they are. If any of them are used on me (in a situation where 2 groups first meet) I am dead unless SoS is used. Three savages kill me in under 2 seconds, if bof and insta heals are used I might just be able to get a qc mezz off but just 1 savage has to purge and im still dead.

Also my pac healer dinged level 35 last night, second best ae mezz and PoT

 

[old.Nol]

Originally posted by Rollie
you can run melee groups and compete, the only guild who ive seen run 3savages lately is JH, NP has had warriors/zerks in there groups maybe the odd savage.

We run with mixed tanks savage/zerk/warrior and we lose to hibs 50/50 depending on ra's/instas, i think you over exaggerate a great deal tbh.

You are basing your post on 1 guild JH, most others dont run 3 savages, well not from what ive seen.

Hibs can run melee groups fine, you can field 4 deter tanks and 3 droods, mids cant field 4 det tanks if they field 3 healers.

Please explain that to your realmies who have stopped playing because they can't get a group if they're not savages.

Which hib det tanks have a ranged interrupt like savages?

How badly do you worry about det when u have 3 classes with cure mezz? The hib group has onne demezzer, who also happens to be end battery and primary cc.

 

[Rollie]

Originally posted by hotrat
Being on the receiving end numerous times I am well aware of how powerful they are. If any of them are used on me (in a situation where 2 groups first meet) I am dead unless SoS is used. Three savages kill me in under 2 seconds, if bof and insta heals are used I might just be able to get a qc mezz off but just 1 savage has to purge and im still dead.

Also my pac healer dinged level 35 last night, second best ae mezz and PoT

I love the way you think i can hit you with a single/aoe 150 radius stun from 1500 range when you have already started casting mezz at bolt range



get a lv50 healer then come back and tell us, btw wasnt your healer aug or does it change to back up your argument :great:

 

[parzi]

if your mincer uses sos early enough you shouldnt die to meelee's for 30sec tbh ;P

 

[uglymug]

Originally posted by kirennia
Savages > Alb tanks

Healers > Alb healing/CC

Shaman = or > frair

Skald = mincer

So mids have better CC/healing and offence.......and a lot of mids are saying they are the underdogs and the brunt of all Mythics nerf batting.

Do I really need to say anymore? :/

lets turn this thing around shall we ..to see that mids are, in some respects, the underdog. because taking strong classes of examples of how mid is, or isn't the underdog doesn't paint the whole picture

would you swap thanes for paladins? (playing midgard, i'd say yes)

would you swap zerkers for mercs, as they stand now? (again, from mid's point of view, i'd say yes)

would you swap skalds for mincers? (you say there's little difference, but i think most mids would love their speedclass to have the abilities a mincer has)

and just for arguments sake, eventho these classes do little for fg v fg rvr..

would you swap SB's for infils, and hunters for scouts (well, you know my answer by now ..i'd say yes)


see? mid isn't mythic favorite child as some have claimed. yes they have strong classes, and one very overpowered one..savages.

and to those saying healers need a nerf... go play one. healers, as many if not all support classes are only as strong as their tanks. this is the way it is now. tanks determine the outcome of rvr ... and healers just happen to be supporting savages, the strongest tank in the game (which is also a huge problem for midplayers..but that's another story)