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Scouse

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The original topic was "lets not spend 27 billion of public money on roads, but spend that public money on insulating houses, making them energy efficient and then spend on communal heating sources".

Yeah, you don't get one size fits all but you do cover huge swathes of the population.

@dysfunction - you dig a series of fucking big and deep boreholes in a city and heat square blocks - delivering heat in the same way you deliver gas. It's no biggie. Other than to do everyone we need significant spend...


...like that road money.
 

Bodhi

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Thing about roads is that they benefit everyone, not just middle class people wanting to virtue signal in Waitrose about their posh new heat pump.

Sounds much better value to me. Quite hard to deliver stuff to a supermarket with a communal heat pump.
 

caLLous

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In fairness we had only been discussing Ground Source up to that point where @caLLous decided to muddy the waters by posting a picture of an Air Source model.
Hands up, I missed the "communal" bit (I was initially responding to your "before 2007" comment) but I associate "heat pump" with air source because it's far more common for residential use, simply because it's so much cheaper to set up. When we're talking about new builds and retrofitting older houses and you mention a "heat pump", the first port of call is always air source unless you have a spare acre of land, specifically ask about ground source and have £20+ k to install it.

As for "hideous box", @dysfunction, do you have a satellite dish bolted to the side of your house or a TV aerial strapped to your chimney? Both of those are "hideous" (more-so that a pretty non-descript box I'd say) but they're ubiquitous nowadays.
 

caLLous

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The original topic was "lets not spend 27 billion of public money on roads, but spend that public money on insulating houses, making them energy efficient and then spend on communal heating sources".

Yeah, you don't get one size fits all but you do cover huge swathes of the population.

@dysfunction - you dig a series of fucking big and deep boreholes in a city and heat square blocks - delivering heat in the same way you deliver gas. It's no biggie. Other than to do everyone we need significant spend...


...like that road money.
There actually seems to be a better way which is to pipe up a neighbourhood, send ground-temperature water/refrigerant through it and have boilers in each house take it in and pull the heat from it. It'd be like a massive distributed ground source installation rather than a central one that sends out heat so the pipework wouldn't need to be insulated at all. I imagine the waste on a central one that spaffs out heat around a town would be immense (I thought they were dismantling all those old Russian district heating systems because they're so wasteful).
 

Moriath

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Yep. And the massive new roadbuilding scheme that sunak is using to pay his mates billions.

As soon as self driving cars come along congestion should disappear...
Governments have always invested in infrastructure to boost the economy in hard times.
 

Raven

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There are better ways to spend and create employment though.
 

Gwadien

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There are better ways to spend and create employment though.

Public Works is always a great thing to do during bad times.

The problem is that the politicians don't have the willpower to do it anymore, and even if we did, the price would be x100 what it should be.
 

Bodhi

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Hands up, I missed the "communal" bit (I was initially responding to your "before 2007" comment) but I associate "heat pump" with air source because it's far more common for residential use, simply because it's so much cheaper to set up. When we're talking about new builds and retrofitting older houses and you mention a "heat pump", the first port of call is always air source unless you have a spare acre of land, specifically ask about ground source and have £20+ k to install it.

As for "hideous box", @dysfunction, do you have a satellite dish bolted to the side of your house or a TV aerial strapped to your chimney? Both of those are "hideous" (more-so that a pretty non-descript box I'd say) but they're ubiquitous nowadays.

We actually have the issue where our Sky dish is right about where our boiler is currently, so presumably we'd be moving stuff round to accommodate it. However as I'm sure you can guess, it's not something I'm in too much of a hurry to investigate - gas is cheap and reliable, and has kept us toasty warm for the last couple of months. I also like the idea of multiple fuel sources for multiple things, so electric for household stuff (preferably off nuclear), gas for heating/cooking, petrol for transport - have spent far too long in Solution Architecture to be designing in any single points of failure :)
 

Scouse

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Governments have always invested in infrastructure to boost the economy in hard times.
Environmental infrastructure, ffs.

We're not mongoloids. (well, maybe we are). We don't just go "roads" because we've lost all invention and intellect. We need to spend public money where it will do the most good. If that's infrastructure that provides clean heating, insluation, environmental benefits whilst creating whole new industries that's better than wanking it on yet more road infrastructure that's going to be redundant in 20 years.
 

caLLous

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We actually have the issue where our Sky dish is right about where our boiler is currently, so presumably we'd be moving stuff round to accommodate it.
There are bound to be limits but I've seen installs where there's a good 5 metres of pipework between the external unit and the boiler. The refrigerant in that loop doesn't actually get that hot - it goes into the boiler where some sort of magic takes place (the heat is sucked out of it, amplified and transferred to the loop which actually goes around the house) and then returns to the outdoor unit to be warmed up again.
 

dysfunction

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Hands up, I missed the "communal" bit (I was initially responding to your "before 2007" comment) but I associate "heat pump" with air source because it's far more common for residential use, simply because it's so much cheaper to set up. When we're talking about new builds and retrofitting older houses and you mention a "heat pump", the first port of call is always air source unless you have a spare acre of land, specifically ask about ground source and have £20+ k to install it.

As for "hideous box", @dysfunction, do you have a satellite dish bolted to the side of your house or a TV aerial strapped to your chimney? Both of those are "hideous" (more-so that a pretty non-descript box I'd say) but they're ubiquitous nowadays.

Might be obvious if you have been looking into them that it would be air source. Ive no idea how these things work so to me it sounds extremely odd how you would get heat from air in the middle of winter. :unsure:

Funnily enough no I do not have a satellite dish bolted to the side of my house or a TV aerial strapped to my chimney.
 

Moriath

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Environmental infrastructure, ffs.

We're not mongoloids. (well, maybe we are). We don't just go "roads" because we've lost all invention and intellect. We need to spend public money where it will do the most good. If that's infrastructure that provides clean heating, insluation, environmental benefits whilst creating whole new industries that's better than wanking it on yet more road infrastructure that's going to be redundant in 20 years.
Building stuff is easy. High technology and insulating stuffs is good but it doesnt put money into the economy in a quick way. Building roads and rail is good for this as its a lot of labour and less materials. So money goes mostly into the labourers. Or more than installing heat pumps.
 

Scouse

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Building stuff is easy. High technology and insulating stuffs is good but it doesnt put money into the economy in a quick way. Building roads and rail is good for this as its a lot of labour and less materials. So money goes mostly into the labourers. Or more than installing heat pumps.
Building heat pumps is easy. Insulating stuff is easy. It's proven to work and proven to create jobs and does it in a quick way - it's nothing we don't already do, it's nothing complex - we just ramp it up.

Us acting like idiot gorillas spunking money on road building projects is not only a waste of fucking money it's counterproductive to other targets that we have. We may as well give the money away because at least we won't be saddling ourselves with more problems like we will building more roads.
 

Gwadien

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This shit has been around since I was a kid, and kids were doing the same shit back then (although at a lower quality).

Another parenting fail; if your pre-16 kid is doing anything on a web cam that's not to do with school work then you fucked up.
 

Moriath

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This shit has been around since I was a kid, and kids were doing the same shit back then (although at a lower quality).

Another parenting fail; if your pre-16 kid is doing anything on a web cam that's not to do with school work then you fucked up.
Well no, but it should be monitored what they are doing. But i guess thats what you meant.
 

Embattle

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Had a Eurofighter over Devon/Cornwall just now, plenty of noise at times and when it did turn up on Flight radar it seemed to be practicing intercepting a larger plane off the coast of Bude.
 

Bodhi

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Doesn't happen very often these days, but there are still times I look back to Scotland and beam with pride:


There's even a website you can go on to see where they all are:


Personal favourite - Gonnae Snow Dae That (massive Chewin the Fat reference)
 

MYstIC G

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Doesn't happen very often these days, but there are still times I look back to Scotland and beam with pride:


There's even a website you can go on to see where they all are:


Personal favourite - Gonnae Snow Dae That (massive Chewin the Fat reference)
Mary Queen of Salt 🤣
 

Wij

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Doesn't happen very often these days, but there are still times I look back to Scotland and beam with pride:


There's even a website you can go on to see where they all are:


Personal favourite - Gonnae Snow Dae That (massive Chewin the Fat reference)
Scots do good humour generally. Me and the Mrs love Two Doors Down.
 

Bodhi

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Scots do good humour generally. Me and the Mrs love Two Doors Down.

Just makes me think of Hurricane Bawbag tbh.

But yes, Scottish Humour is generally awesome, just a shame we're known for being such grumpy bastards :)
 

DaGaffer

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Another parenting fail; if your pre-16 kid is doing anything on a web cam that's not to do with school work then you fucked up.

Bollocks. My kids have zoom calls with their friends every day at the moment. Only way to keep them sane.
 

Raven

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Yeah, I think me nieces do too, and they are at the age where they are doing their own stuff...well one is, she will be 16 this year, and how overbearing do parents need to be?! I think there is certainly a place to educate the child on what they should and shouldn't do and trust them to do it/not do it.

One of many dilemmas I don't have to worry about being a non-parent :)
 

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