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[Scouse]

This is a US college professor claiming space was invented by white people...kinda taking identity politics into the abstract.

The guy in question isn't a collage professor. He's a debate advisor. (And pushing an agenda). And not representative of pretty much anything.

Are you pointing at racist black people (of which there must be millions) and going "look racist"? To what end?

 

[Moriath]

I blame people that vote for the Tories then deny that their cost-cutting has no effect on people.

You are too easy haha.

i dont deny that services would be better if more money is given to them. But we have to find the money from somewhere. And the Labour party left us witha massive overspend that wasnt sustainable.

if you can magically find a better gdp or would like to pay more tax then we could afford a lot more services.

 

[Gwadien]

You are too easy haha.

i dont deny that services would be better if more money is given to them. But we have to find the money from somewhere. And the Labour party left us witha massive overspend that wasnt sustainable.

if you can magically find a better gdp or would like to pay more tax then we could afford a lot more services.

I love it how people just keep repeating this 'Labour spent WAY too much on public services!' response.

How much did they over spend by?

 

[Gwadien]

Thomas Cook was driven into the ground, the bosses paid their selves millions.

This bird gets overpaid £21k, gets sacked and suspended prison sentence.

Woman overpaid £21k will not pay back money

 

[Scouse]

Thomas Cook was driven into the ground, the bosses paid their selves millions.

This bird gets overpaid £21k, gets sacked and suspended prison sentence.

Woman overpaid £21k will not pay back money

Difference being one was legal, the other isn't.

She should be prosecuted - and the laws changed for the rich.

 

[fettoken]

”Justice system”

Definition of oxymoron

 

[Scouse]

”Justice system”

Definition of oxymoron

Yeah.

I once said "theft is theft" on this forum though and was trounced on.

If two criminals break into different homes and steal a bracelet each - one which is £100 from Ratners and the other £1,000,000 because it belonged to a Queen at one point then the second criminal will be much more harshly punished.

That's because justice is far from blind and is absolutely setup to protect the rich.

Now, if you're the poor bird who's had her £100 bracelet stolen then you're scared in your home, if you've had your £1,000,00 bracelet stolen you probably still are - but can afford to beef up your security.

If you're the crim who stole the £100 bracelet you'll probably not get found, but if prosecuted get a slap on the wrist. You'll get found and clinky for the other - for the same crime - breaking, entering, stealing one item, leaving.

Only one reason for that - rich people are more important. Privilege - literally stems from "private law" - i.e. law for the rich.

 

[Gwadien]

Well the reason why I brought up Thomas Cook is because his defence was 'I don't set my own wage' and saw a sinking ship so didn't dispute his wages.

Whereas this woman said pretty much the exact same thing and received a punishment.

I'd also imagine it will be much easier for him to find a new job whereas it won't be for her.

Even though he's a failed business leader and she's a healthcare worker.

 

[Scouse]

Well the reason why I brought up Thomas Cook is because his defence was 'I don't set my own wage' and saw a sinking ship so didn't dispute his wages.

Whereas this woman said pretty much the exact same thing and received a punishment.

His renumeration is set by shareholders - you're not going to object unless it's too low for you. You're not going to say "sorry, work is going badly - can you reduce my renumeration please" - that's up to shareholders.

This woman knew she was being over-paid (21k in 18 months) - and didn't fess up. Additionally - she's not going to turn around and say "the primary healthcare trust is underperforming, can you cut my wage to reflect this please".

She's a theif. He's the beneficiary of law that is setup for the rich.

I bet you if he was overpaid he'd have fessed up. Maybe because it would show in shareholders reports, but either way - he wouldn't have kept schtum and spent it.



Edit: Just to be clear though - I agree with your general point on inequality.

 

[Gwadien]

His renumeration is set by shareholders - you're not going to object unless it's too low for you. You're not going to say "sorry, work is going badly - can you reduce my renumeration please" - that's up to shareholders.

This woman knew she was being over-paid (21k in 18 months) - and didn't fess up. Additionally - she's not going to turn around and say "the primary healthcare trust is underperforming, can you cut my wage to reflect this please".

She's a theif. He's the beneficiary of law that is setup for the rich.

I bet you if he was overpaid he'd have fessed up. Maybe because it would show in shareholders reports, but either way - he wouldn't have kept schtum and spent it.



Edit: Just to be clear though - I agree with your general point on inequality.

Have you been day drinking?

 

[Scouse]

Have you been day drinking?

Unfortunately not. I'm overworked so feel like I'm on drugs.

 

[Ormorof]

Well the former Nissan-Renault CEO was overpaid and did not report it, might end up spending 20 years in jail

 

[Scouse]

Well the former Nissan-Renault CEO was overpaid and did not report it, might end up spending 20 years in jail

lol

 

[Moriath]

I love it how people just keep repeating this 'Labour spent WAY too much on public services!' response.

How much did they over spend by?

In 2008 the economy shrunk by 5% with the financial crisis that was created by the banks and their reliance on dodgey loans.

during that time labour continued the increases in spending not taking into account the reduction in gdp.

thats why they spent too much in the run up to the 2010 election and didnt want to cut anything because they wanted votes.
This meant we had to make a correction when the new coalition government came to power in 2010.

and it was a coalition government that bought in austerity. Not a tory one. So you can blame the lib dems too. As a lot did in the 2015 election.

pounds shillings and pence i dont know what that 5% is equal to. But we were spending even more beyond our means than we usually do at that time.

 

[Scouse]

Sorry @Moriath - the banking crash is directly related to Tory-era reforms and deregulation under Thatcher. It's those reforms that made the banks offerings (exotic derivatives etc. etc.) possible in the first place.

Austerity is an ideological (and failing) solution to a problem created by that. And we're paying for it - that bailout money went directly into the pockets of the rich and every time QE is used, that's where it goes. Meanwhile, all of the public services go to wrack and ruin.

Remember - all of this is based on a bullshit system. Money is created every time a bank grants a loan to you. Out of thin air. They don't have to get money from a central bank and give it to you - they just magically up their balance sheet and then tell you that you owe them all of that money back, plus interest - and you work your balls off for the bank to do that until you clear that debt.

Hey presto! Free money for the bank. Which goes into shareholder pockets as "profit".

So Labour spending on the NHS, in that context, is not something to be bothered about. It's the structural problems that are the issue.

 

[Gwadien]

In 2008 the economy shrunk by 5% with the financial crisis that was created by the banks and their reliance on dodgey loans.

during that time labour continued the increases in spending not taking into account the reduction in gdp.

thats why they spent too much in the run up to the 2010 election and didnt want to cut anything because they wanted votes.
This meant we had to make a correction when the new coalition government came to power in 2010.

and it was a coalition government that bought in austerity. Not a tory one. So you can blame the lib dems too. As a lot did in the 2015 election.

pounds shillings and pence i dont know what that 5% is equal to. But we were spending even more beyond our means than we usually do at that time.

It's actually funny how people just repeat the party message then pretend they have free thought.

 

[Gwadien]

Also, if you think that the firefighters are in anyway to blame for Grenfell then you are absolute scum.

 

[Job]

Thomas Cook was driven into the ground, the bosses paid their selves millions.

This bird gets overpaid £21k, gets sacked and suspended prison sentence.

Woman overpaid £21k will not pay back money

This Bird?
Oh dear.

 

[Gwadien]

This Bird?
Oh dear.

I know you've managed to convince everyone here that I'm a left wing snowflake, but the reality isn't true.

It's just because you're trying to distract from the fact you're a racist bigot

 

[Embattle]

You really are every bit as bad as job, just opposite sides of the same coin and just as easy to mentally ignore.

 

[Scouse]

Also, if you think that the firefighters are in anyway to blame for Grenfell then you are absolute scum.

I think that if you can see what's going off and you don't tell people to get out you've failed at your primary task (which is what the report said).

However, ultimate culpability lies with the building owners not ensuring they followed fire regs.

 

[Gwadien]

You really are every bit as bad as job, just opposite sides of the same coin and just as easy to mentally ignore.

Because I disagree with you politically, you're saying I'm the same as Job?

Right.

 

[Gwadien]

I think that if you can see what's going off and you don't tell people to get out you've failed at your primary task (which is what the report said).

However, ultimate culpability lies with the building owners not ensuring they followed fire regs.

They were following the procedure; stay in your room until we get to you.

They weren't really expecting it to be a flammable building

 

[Scouse]

Because I disagree with you politically, you're saying I'm the same as Job?

Stop biting!
But it's because of this sort of post:

Also, if you think that the firefighters are in anyway to blame for Grenfell then you are absolute scum.

In any way?

They were woefully untrained, unequipped etc. etc. And they're not accountable for the tragedy - but if they'd had the gumption to think rather than blindly follow the orders of higher-ups (because it's my job, innit) then they'd have told the residents to evacuate earlier.

Building regs and leadership. They're the big two. But are we really saying that firefighters are so thick that they can't see what's going off over a long(ish) period of time and say to people "get out, who cares what 'official policy' is" - and that makes them totally blameless?

Maybe we are?

Edit:

They were following the procedure; stay in your room until we get to you.

They weren't really expecting it to be a flammable building

That's the jobsworth point. I don't accept it. It's like working class people can't be shit at their jobs. (It may be not entirely their fault because of training deficiencies etc. - but "following procedure" is a piss poor excuse for a lot of things).


Edit edit: Lesson here is:

If your building is on fire - GET OUT

 

[Job]

Its not up to the individual firefighters to over rule procedure...this has nothing to do with them.
You cant make a job and pension losing culture of rule following and expect the people at the bottom to make their own decisions.
She'll walk off in to the sunset with her 2 million pension.

This is entirely a middle class failure and crime...from the fire certificate to the lack of plan B in fire management.

And its STILL in fucking place!!!

 

[Scouse]

Its not up to the individual firefighters to over rule procedure...this has nothing to do with them.

Spoken like a scouser. All working class hero without the hero.

Everyone is at fault - to differing levels, yep, but if you can't shout "get out" when a building is on fire and it's not going to plan because "procedure" then you're doing life wrong.

Jobsworth is never an excuse. "I was only following procedure - everyone said jews were bad and we were all gassing them".

 

[Job]

They have entrenched a culture of do as we say and theres an awful lot of hindsight going on here.

I think we should get them out boss.

You could be right..

Oh fuck theyre all on fire in the stairwells.

 

[Gwadien]

I think you haven't worked in the public sector @Scouse so long as you follow procedure you'll be fine; there's no incentive to think outside the box, because someone has already done it for you, further up the ladder.

Chimney death man was 'a fantastic granddad'

Case and point; had the staff who were trained but didn't have the equipment, sure maybe he was dead already, but maybe if we didn't have Tories shirking their social responsibilities, he could be alive.

Who knows.

 

[Scouse]

I think you haven't worked in the public sector @Scouse so long as you follow procedure you'll be fine; there's no incentive to think outside the box, because someone has already done it for you, further up the ladder.

Don't accept that. There's enough examples in history for no British human who ever went to school, ever, to fall into that. It's a personal failing to be a jobsworth - a voluntary thing.

And if public sector appeals to people like that then that's their personal failing - and culpability for being a shit human - too.

 

[Moriath]

Sorry @Moriath - the banking crash is directly related to Tory-era reforms and deregulation under Thatcher. It's those reforms that made the banks offerings (exotic derivatives etc. etc.) possible in the first place.

Austerity is an ideological (and failing) solution to a problem created by that. And we're paying for it - that bailout money went directly into the pockets of the rich and every time QE is used, that's where it goes. Meanwhile, all of the public services go to wrack and ruin.

Remember - all of this is based on a bullshit system. Money is created every time a bank grants a loan to you. Out of thin air. They don't have to get money from a central bank and give it to you - they just magically up their balance sheet and then tell you that you owe them all of that money back, plus interest - and you work your balls off for the bank to do that until you clear that debt.

Hey presto! Free money for the bank. Which goes into shareholder pockets as "profit".

So Labour spending on the NHS, in that context, is not something to be bothered about. It's the structural problems that are the issue.

A global problem that bought down major american banks is a tory only issue. Hahahahahaha