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[Job]

Because accusations without a shred of evidence are the truth now if its in a documentary.

'Too big to cancel': can we still listen to Michael Jackson?

 

[DaGaffer]

Because accusations without a shred of evidence are the truth now if its in a documentary.

'Too big to cancel': can we still listen to Michael Jackson?

There’s an absolute fuckton of evidence, and there has been since long before he died. Michael Jackson should have been convicted in 2003, but American trials of the super famous people usually fail to convict as we all know. A number of the jurors in the case have admitted his fame coloured their views.

 

[Scouse]

There’s an absolute fuckton of evidence, and there has been since long before he died. Michael Jackson should have been convicted in 2003, but American trials of the super famous people usually fail to convict as we all know. A number of the jurors in the case have admitted his fame coloured their views.

Meh. It went to court. He was innocent.

Anything else post that is bullshit and not worth our time. And that grauniad article is whining on about white men (again). FFS.

 

[dysfunction]

That's a cop out. I've given reasons all along. You've given none. Making that my fault is just a way for you not to critically evaluate your own argument.

Yes but you are an idealist. Sometimes you need to accept that things are not going to be just so. You have to be a bit pragmatic...

 

[DaGaffer]

Meh. It went to court. He was innocent.

Anything else post that is bullshit and not worth our time. And that grauniad article is whining on about white men (again). FFS.

Yeah, and so was OJ.

If you believe that can I introduce you to my Nigerian friends?

 

[Bodhi]

Because accusations without a shred of evidence are the truth now if its in a documentary.

'Too big to cancel': can we still listen to Michael Jackson?

That article seems to be starting from the premise that it was ever acceptable to listen to Michael Jackson?

(Apart from Weezer's cover of Billie Jean - that is epic).

 

[Job]

His records were woven into the lives of millions – but Leaving Neverland appears to make clear the King of Pop was a paedophile. So can we divorce the music from his alleged crimes?

What the even fuck is that

 

[Job]

Yeah, and so was OJ.

If you believe that can I introduce you to my Nigerian friends?

Are you prepared to accept that after the first allegations, a family decide to send their kids to stay with him unaccompanied.

Then lo and behold, they recieve millions in out of court settelement.

 

[Gwadien]

Are you prepared to accept that after the first allegations, a family decide to send their kids to stay with him unaccompanied.

Then lo and behold, they recieve millions in out of court settelement.

Of course, it's easy to groom parents when you're Michael Jackson LOL.

I'm sure if Tommy Robinson asked for your kids you'd say yes.

 

[Job]

From that Tommy reaction video, the GAB extension, it really is a game changer if it gets traction, no more thought crime moderation or shut down of discussion by websites, I'm going to spam the fuck out of the Guard comments with it.
Dissenter | Comment On Any URL Online

 

[Scouse]

Yes but you are an idealist. Sometimes you need to accept that things are not going to be just so. You have to be a bit pragmatic...

I do accept it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't keep your eye on what the prize should be

 

[dysfunction]

I do accept it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't keep your eye on what the prize should be

Yes but paradigm shifts don't occur very often. Incremental changes are the norm and are accepted more readily.

 

[Scouse]

Yes but paradigm shifts don't occur very often. Incremental changes are the norm and are accepted more readily.

First step in anything is to talk about what should be, then you can talk about how to get there.

 

[Bodhi]

His records were woven into the lives of millions – but Leaving Neverland appears to make clear the King of Pop was a paedophile. So can we divorce the music from his alleged crimes?

What the even fuck is that

Speaking as a former fan of the Lostprophets . .

No. No you can't.

 

[dysfunction]

First step in anything is to talk about what should be, then you can talk about how to get there.

Yes but you tend to blur that all into one event!

 

[Gwadien]

@Scouse So would you be happy if Job sued Deebs for denying his freedom of speech by banning on here?

 

[Scouse]

Speaking as a former fan of the Lostprophets . .

No. No you can't.

Yeah you can. One thing is totally separate from the other.

Would you not listen to Wagner because he was a white supremacist Nazi?

If we go down that idiot leftist-route of deligitimising everyone's entire lives because they <insert bad thing here> then the list of stuff we have to pretend never happened would grow to enormous proportions.

I got into an argument over Wagner with a jewish lad once. Said I was "disgusting" because I liked some of Wagner's stuff. I countered with the fact that if Stephen Fry can square the circle with jewish ancestry and a love of the ring cycle (which we all do) then I certainly can.

An adult acceptance that bad humans can do great things is what's required here. This marxist-style "if you do a bad thing we'll delete you from history" cultural pressure is dangerous IMO.

 

[Scouse]

@Scouse So would you be happy if Job sued Deebs for denying his freedom of speech by banning on here?

There's so many things wrong with that question I barely know where to start. I could go into pages and pages of it. And if you can't even be arsed to start justifying your position (as I have mine) then why should I continue to try to engage with this sort of stuff.

Suffice to say: stop being silly.

 

[Job]

Its a simple case of scale.
Freddys is a tiny forum..facebook is a global phenomenon.
There is room in life for some discretion..its called common sense.

Of course the Tommy ban issue does lead on to other arguments, there is nothing to stop him starting a website, its not prohibitively expensive and any movement has to pay its way, or are we assuming facebook has crossed a threshold to become a human right, that facebook..youtube..instagram and twitter are so ubiqitous that denial of them requires an extra level of investigation.
Much as its now illegal to punish people by removing their internet.

Of course its not the banning that matters, but what that means to society, ultimately it sends a message to humanity that someone controls your opinion and there are obvious consequences to that.
One day something far more embedded will replace social media, maybe almost telepathic connection..how do they censor that?

Banning something always leads to a massive increase in its popularity, they may have just done him the biggest favour they could.

 

[Gwadien]

Its a simple case of scale.
Freddys is a tiny forum..facebook is a global phenomenon.
There is room in life for some discretion..its called common sense.

Of course the Tommy ban issue does lead on to other arguments, there is nothing to stop him starting a website, its not prohibitively expensive and any movement has to pay its way, or are we assuming facebook has crossed a threshold to become a human right, that facebook..youtube..instagram and twitter are so ubiqitous that denial of them requires an extra level of investigation.
Much as its now illegal to punish people by removing their internet.

Of course its not the banning that matters, but what that means to society, ultimately it sends a message to humanity that someone controls your opinion and there are obvious consequences to that.
One day something far more embedded will replace social media, maybe almost telepathic connection..how do they censor that?

Banning something always leads to a massive increase in its popularity, they may have just done him the biggest favour they could.

So what you're saying is that there should be exceptions for certain websites, but there shouldn't be regulation across the internet?

Yeah, I can see that happening.

The Internet has been proven to be an amazing propaganda tool in China and other countries which control the internet, the West is itching at the chance to be able to control it, especially at a time where patriotism is low, if we need some more resources, we need propaganda to force us to fight for it.

As you have rightly said - he's been banned from a single platform, if Tommy has a massive following like he suggests then there would be very little issue in simply informing his followers of his website and there he can inform them.

I really don't see the problem here, all I see is a Populist leader trying to get more support by changing the parameters of his politics from racism to racism & 'fighting the system'. (Does it remind you of any particular US Presidents?) He's also very fucking good at it (I mean he managed to convince @Scouse) - I especially like the part where whenever he talks to someone from the 'establishment' he always tells them how they're ruining his life, his marriage and his kids, not his fault, at all.

 

[Scouse]

The Internet has been proven to be an amazing propaganda tool in China and other countries which control the internet, the West is itching at the chance to be able to control it

Oh the ironing.

Can you imagine - there is a significant proportion of the population who strengthen the government's hand in this - because they don't actually believe in unfettered free speech - therefore believing in some form of censorship.

*You* are the thin end of the wedge Gwad.

 

[Gwadien]

Oh the ironing.

Can you imagine - there is a significant proportion of the population who strengthen the government's hand in this - because they don't actually believe in unfettered free speech - therefore believing in some form of censorship.

*You* are the thin end of the wedge Gwad.

How am I strengthening the Government's had when I'm saying I want no involvement of the Government in the internet?

No Government involvement = no censorship.

 

[Job]

i created a video in Winshite fucking shite 10.

So I cant find where it is, so had a google search.

This page describes the problem and I have to say it doesn't surprise me, because microshite has form, it's the utter inability to even acknowledge what utter cunts they are, just read the replies, this is a simple video app on a 2019 OS.

photo app video project

 

[Scouse]

No Government involvement = no censorship.

Oh. So Tommy Robinson hasn't been censored then?

Bugger me, this whole thread is fictional!


You strengthen those who would censor's hand by accepting or supporting any form of censorship.

Follow it through logically. You open the door a little and all sorts of shit gets through. Given whst we know of how humans operate and proof from history and the present day, zero tolerance of censorship is the only rational option.

You support the wrong things and the world ties itself in hypocritical knots whilst infantilising the masses.

 

[Gwadien]

Oh. So Tommy Robinson hasn't been censored then?

Bugger me, this whole thread is fictional!


You strengthen those who would censor's hand by accepting or supporting any form of censorship.

Follow it through logically. You open the door a little and all sorts of shit gets through. Given whst we know of how humans operate and proof from history and the present day, zero tolerance of censorship is the only rational option.

You support the wrong things and the world ties itself in hypocritical knots whilst infantilising the masses.

The internet is not real life though, it's the internet, you can make your own little corner and spout as much shit as you want, if certain websites don't want you to do that then that's up to them, they have the freedom to decide that.

As I said before, if Tommy Robinson has a following that he suggests he does, then he will be off Facebook and so will all his followers, then Facebook will lose customers, lose money and close. That's democracy in action.

Obviously the reality is that these people are sharing these videos on Facebook about how shit Facebook is, and if that's the case then yes, the whole Tommy Robinson censorship thing is bollocks, because it's fairly obvious that they don't actually give a fuck.

 

[caLLous]

Speaking as a former fan of the Lostprophets . .

No. No you can't.

If you're a former fan then surely that means you could.

 

[Gwadien]

Oh. So Tommy Robinson hasn't been censored then?

Bugger me, this whole thread is fictional!


You strengthen those who would censor's hand by accepting or supporting any form of censorship.

Follow it through logically. You open the door a little and all sorts of shit gets through. Given whst we know of how humans operate and proof from history and the present day, zero tolerance of censorship is the only rational option.

You support the wrong things and the world ties itself in hypocritical knots whilst infantilising the masses.

What about Job getting banned from the Guardian? Isn't that censorship?

 

[Job]

I would say it is because Im not remotely being offensive, racist or personal.

They ban you for supporting non liberal views.
Of course thing like the Dissent add on can eventually challenge one of the biggest threats to civilisation..the thought squad.

 

[Job]

So what you're saying is that there should be exceptions for certain websites, but there shouldn't be regulation across the internet?

Yeah, I can see that happening.

The Internet has been proven to be an amazing propaganda tool in China and other countries which control the internet, the West is itching at the chance to be able to control it, especially at a time where patriotism is low, if we need some more resources, we need propaganda to force us to fight for it.

As you have rightly said - he's been banned from a single platform, if Tommy has a massive following like he suggests then there would be very little issue in simply informing his followers of his website and there he can inform them.

I really don't see the problem here, all I see is a Populist leader trying to get more support by changing the parameters of his politics from racism to racism & 'fighting the system'. (Does it remind you of any particular US Presidents?) He's also very fucking good at it (I mean he managed to convince @Scouse) - I especially like the part where whenever he talks to someone from the 'establishment' he always tells them how they're ruining his life, his marriage and his kids, not his fault, at all.

I thikk he changed from xenophobia to fighting the system as it became apparent how embedded a liberal agenda is in many areas of supposedly free press and how many powerful friends they have.
It cannot be understated how powerful those hidden recordings are, they have given proof to those who knew it all along.
The press is going flat out to contain it, but its a game changer.

 

[Gwadien]

I thikk he changed from xenophobia to fighting the system as it became apparent how embedded a liberal agenda is in many areas of supposedly free press and how many powerful friends they have.
It cannot be understated how powerful those hidden recordings are, they have given proof to those who knew it all along.
The press is going flat out to contain it, but its a game changer.

Those hidden recordings showed a journalist using typically dirty journalistic tricks to dig into a story.

As I said (Which you didn't respond to) - How many Liberal Elite media groups reported on him being abusive to that girl, and the sexual allegations? 0, because they were trying to dig for a story.

The point he should have made was about the ethics of journalism, because that's what the film is about.