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Gwadien

Gwadien

Uneducated Northern Cretin
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Bodhi said:
So @Moriath's point was that Wiretap laws in Italy are a bit more authoritarian than ours, which the mayor should have known about before making such suggestions over the phone?

There is no part of that that doesn't make sense to me. It's like if I get caught with some weed over here, saying it's legal in California so should be legal here is neither here nor there. It's illegal here, so I would get punished by the laws here (fuck all in the case of weed possession). See also doing 130 mph on the motorway, etc etc.
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The point was about political arrests, not necessarily about how they acquired the information.

Derail successful, wp @Moriath
 
Scouse

Scouse

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Hawkwind said:
Jesus @Scouse you use an extreme example to argue a point where example you're using is extreme to mask the point. The point made is clear. Change the example context to something less explosive like copyright of media and you have countries where it is legal and most where it is not. In the countries where there are no copyright laws the people downloading movies are doing nothing wrong, in the eyes of their legal system.

It was a very simple point and @Moriath is correct. Bring rape into it and yes it would always be morally abhorrent and wrong but its a diversion from the point made
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Moriath's example was an appeal to authority - "IT'S THE LAW!!!" so the example I used was entirely appropriate in that context.

And rather than acknowledge that so we could move on with adult discussion mori said "rape is fine if it's legal"...
 
fettoken

fettoken

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Well, in China, It's customary to copy others shit, even gas-stations are copied, there's copies of copies of copies with regards to seemingly legit stores along the street.

It's customary in some places to eat the dead, aka Cannibalism. I think they ended that some time ago as the women who ate the brain and intestines received a neurological disease to a higher degree than men who only ate the muscles and fat.

Well, in some countries, rape is legit. Or cutting off hands, or w/e. Check history. We've all been there.

Read Sapiens. It has some interesting points on the subject among other things.
 
Bodhi

Bodhi

Once agreed with Scouse and a LibDem at same time
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Gwadien said:
The point was about political arrests, not necessarily about how they acquired the information.

Derail successful, wp @Moriath
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And now you're moaning about someone derailing a thread? On here?

Anyway it is entirely possible to disagree with the nature of the political arrests, but feel that the method was unfortunately bang-to-rights given the laws in the country where it happened. In an ideal world it wouldn't have happened, but it isn't an ideal world, it's Italy. With their history of mob violence and corruption it's hardly surprising such laws exist. What's more if you are in a position to become a mayor in Italy, you should probably be aware of that.

But what we are missing here, is what an absolute basket case Italy is at the moment. Little economic growth, high unemployment - add in a few hundred thousand migrants and it's hardly surprising the locals are getting annoyed and the rhetoric from government is getting....edgy (see the Brussels bunker comment). Italy has the destabilising potential to make Brexit look like an even more minor irritation than it already is.
 
Gwadien

Gwadien

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Bodhi said:
But what we are missing here, is what an absolute basket case Italy is at the moment. Little economic growth, high unemployment - add in a few hundred thousand migrants and it's hardly surprising the locals are getting annoyed and the rhetoric from government is getting....edgy (see the Brussels bunker comment). Italy has the destabilising potential to make Brexit look like an even more minor irritation than it already is.
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This is my point.

I'm not sure if I'm over exaggerating the arrest, but as I said previously, they went about it as a corruption charge - I'm sure there's hundreds of other politicians who have done infinitely worse than this.

The locals of the town seemed to embrace the migrants too, but to me it appears that the Government doesn't want a far-left strong hold.
 
Bodhi

Bodhi

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Gwadien said:
This is my point.

I'm not sure if I'm over exaggerating the arrest, but as I said previously, they went about it as a corruption charge - I'm sure there's hundreds of other politicians who have done infinitely worse than this.

The locals of the town seemed to embrace the migrants too, but to me it appears that the Government doesn't want a far-left strong hold.
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If that is the case I'm not entirely sure I blame them - everyone is concerned about the far-right, but if you look at both records of killing half their population, the far left are even worse.

Not that I'd call accepting migrants far left, but I am often bemused how fascists are rightly pilloried, but communists get a free pass.
 
Gwadien

Gwadien

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Bodhi said:
If that is the case I'm not entirely sure I blame them - everyone is concerned about the far-right, but if you look at both records of killing half their population, the far left are even worse.

Not that I'd call accepting migrants far left, but I am often bemused how fascists are rightly pilloried, but communists get a free pass.
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It could be me being politically bias but as far as I am aware the 'Liberal' west doesn't perform political arrests, unless it's a terrorist organisation (please don't say Tommy Robinson).

As soon as a populist government gets voted in Italy, political arrests start. It concerns me.
 
Job

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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My mates first outing on his electric bike..weve got the battery drying on the radiator right now.

It got him home, but was stuck on full throttle.

Screenshot_2018-10-15-15-12-48.png
 
Embattle

Embattle

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Wow you must be that person who takes pictures of a fuzzy bigfoot with that camera.
 
Hawkwind

Hawkwind

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Gwadien said:
It could be me being politically bias but as far as I am aware the 'Liberal' west doesn't perform political arrests, unless it's a terrorist organisation (please don't say Tommy Robinson).

As soon as a populist government gets voted in Italy, political arrests start. It concerns me.
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I agree with you, it is concerning, but the law is the law right? That is down to history in most EU countries and not just some right wing conspiracy. In Italy the Government changes any about as quickly as the weather and no one has bothered about these laws up to this incident.
 
Job

Job

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As usual an endless collection of posts taking the intellectual high ground, while the bleedin obvious sits in clear view.

The mayor is seen to be a traitor to Italian nationalism by encouraging a grey area and much used path to obtaining citizenship, their ability to wiretap him and it not lead to outrage is based on the political climate.
It is a very clear sign that liberalism is in serious trouble across Europe, and it was done by its own hand.

It was never anything more than a general consensus to appesr to be fair and tolerant, its roots where and are based upon a persons public image in social situations.
Underneath is a seething anger at cultural change.
Its going to get a LOT worse before it gets better.
 
Gwadien

Gwadien

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Job said:
As usual an endless collection of posts taking the intellectual high ground, while the bleedin obvious sits in clear view.

The mayor is seen to be a traitor to Italian nationalism by encouraging a grey area and much used path to obtaining citizenship, their ability to wiretap him and it not lead to outrage is based on the political climate.
It is a very clear sign that liberalism is in serious trouble across Europe, and it was done by its own hand.

It was never anything more than a general consensus to appesr to be fair and tolerant, its roots where and are based upon a persons public image in social situations.
Underneath is a seething anger at cultural change.
Its going to get a LOT worse before it gets better.
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So you consider your views as 'worse'?
 
Job

Job

The Carl Pilkington of Freddyshouse
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Blimey, that buker killed by a hunter in France story has taken a bizarre twist, his own mother has said she is delighted he is dead and wished he had suffered more.
Seems he served time for beating up and raping girlfriends and was in care since 11 for assaults.
 
BloodOmen

BloodOmen

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Gwadien said:
Oh, I assumed that you got stuff for your agoraphobia, and you were talking about benefits payments before.

mah bad.
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I do but I'm not in a position where I need to milk the system a bit more, even if it is their error :)
 
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