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[Edmond]

 

[Tom]

I am in Turkey and just spent ages in a supermarket looking for Topkek buns.

 

[old.user4556]

Another US college shooting.

Stupid country.

 

[Trem]

Another US college shooting.

Stupid country.

Its like they all have the song they want played at their funeral planned as though it will mean anything to them or they will get to see or hear the reaction.

 

[Moriath]

I am in Turkey and just spent ages in a supermarket looking for Topkek buns.

Well done i guess.

 

[caLLous]

 

[CorNokZ]

If this man could just get four more years, the American people would be so much better off

http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/10/obama-takes-congress-over-gun-laws

 

[Scouse]

Really? He's had ages to address poverty and education - things that are proven to reduce gun death - and he's done fuck all with it.

 

[Ormorof]

He has achieved quite a lot considering he has had an extremely hostile congress to deal with

 

[Raven]

Yup, he has done a huge amount considering what he has had to contend with.

Healthcare being the obvious main win.

 

[Scouse]

Yup, he has done a huge amount considering what he has had to contend with.

Healthcare being the obvious main win.

I said poverty and education.

Healthcare is indeed a win - but patching people up after they've been shot is not what we're talking about.

 

[Raven]

Actually, decent, affordable healthcare is a massive help in getting people out of poverty.

He has had to fight a republican senate at every stage for everything.

 

[Scouse]

Actually, decent, affordable healthcare is a massive help in getting people out of poverty.

No - it gets them basic healthcare - which is a big win - but it does nothing to address their poverty. Previously they were poor and had no healthcare. Now they're poor and have healthcare.

I'm a big admirer of obamacare - but tax on big companies and sensible wages is what's needed along with a proper education.

 

[soze]

I have no doubt that guns make these types of thing easier and bring up the death count but someone needs to see why these kids keep getting pushed to these actions. If he did not have a gun this may have been a knife of a home made bomb we are reading about. What is it that makes Americans decide to just go killing people like this.

I always wonder, Is there similar crime in the UK but because they do not have access to a gun it only tends to be one person stabbed so it is a plain murder rather than a killing spree?

 

[Moriath]

No - it gets them basic healthcare - which is a big win - but it does nothing to address their poverty. Previously they were poor and had no healthcare. Now they're poor and have healthcare.

I'm a big admirer of obamacare - but tax on big companies and sensible wages is what's needed along with a proper education.

But now they dont have to pay for healthcare etc so they have more money as well. My wifes family are poor in the usa and the medicare has helped them more than just better health.

 

[Trem]

Guns don't kill people rappers do.

 

[Scouse]

But now they dont have to pay for healthcare etc so they have more money as well.

The biggest gains were for the large numbers of people who couldn't afford to pay for any healthcare, not just those who found it hard to.

Whichever way you look at it - it's not solved the poverty problem or the education problem - which are the proven main causes of gun crime.

 

[DaGaffer]

I have no doubt that guns make these types of thing easier and bring up the death count but someone needs to see why these kids keep getting pushed to these actions. If he did not have a gun this may have been a knife of a home made bomb we are reading about. What is it that makes Americans decide to just go killing people like this.

I always wonder, Is there similar crime in the UK but because they do not have access to a gun it only tends to be one person stabbed so it is a plain murder rather than a killing spree?

Yes and no. America seems to have a higher percentage of rampaging nutjobs, and easy access to guns is the primary reason for that (while I'm sure people elsewhere have exactly the same impulses, its simply much more difficult to act on them), but I think there are other factors in play that somehow are being fed by American culture. Its not just about guns, but the idea that guns can "fix" things. Witness their military.

 

[soze]

Guns don't kill people rappers do.

I always though that wappers killed people

 

[Moriath]

The biggest gains were for the large numbers of people who couldn't afford to pay for any healthcare, not just those who found it hard to.

Whichever way you look at it - it's not solved the poverty problem or the education problem - which are the proven main causes of gun crime.

Wheres the proof?

 

[Moriath]

Yes and no. America seems to have a higher percentage of rampaging nutjobs, and easy access to guns is the primary reason for that (while I'm sure people elsewhere have exactly the same impulses, its simply much more difficult to act on them), but I think there are other factors in play that somehow are being fed by American culture. Its not just about guns, but the idea that guns can "fix" things. Witness their military.

My brother in law is of the stance that more guns are good. After sandybrook he was all for arming the teachers in class to stop that happening again. Some people just cant get their heads around if the gun wasnt there in the first place.

And australia did a good job of ridding guns from the general populous after they had an atrocity like this. So it can be done. Just that the political system is so dominated by lobbiests that have senetors in their pockets like the nra.

 

[Scouse]

Wheres the proof?

It's not the first time we've discussed gun crime on this forum. However, if you're really that interested in challenging your own ideas there's a lot of handy tools to help you.

 

[Raven]

Ridding the populous of guns is not the right answer (I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to own and shoot a gun) proper and regular checks should be carried out. I think we have it about right in the UK but I would like to see more guns available, hand guns etc for sport shooting.

Obviously some guns shouldn't be anywhere near the public, military spec assault rifles as an obvious example.

Anyway, poverty doesn't increase gun crime. Any old arsehole being able to buy a gun form Walmart is the problem. There are plenty of countries a hell of a lot poorer than the poorest of America and they don't go on gun rampages.

 

[Moriath]

It's not the first time we've discussed gun crime on this forum. However, if you're really that interested in challenging your own ideas there's a lot of handy tools to help you.

Yeah yeah, you just state that something is fact and it demands to be accepted. Not questioned.

 

[Moriath]

Ridding the populous of guns is not the right answer (I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to own and shoot a gun) proper and regular checks should be carried out. I think we have it about right in the UK but I would like to see more guns available, hand guns etc for sport shooting.

Obviously some guns shouldn't be anywhere near the public, military spec assault rifles as an obvious example.

Anyway, poverty doesn't increase gun crime. Any old arsehole being able to buy a gun form Walmart is the problem. There are plenty of countries a hell of a lot poorer than the poorest of America and they don't go on gun rampages.

I love shooting and have had a lot of fun clay shooting before. I agree they dont need to be erradicated but controlled. And as you say there are shed loads of poor countries round the world that dont have the gun crime of the usa. But @Scouse seems to think not. And that they are inextricably linked.

I think the columbine dudes were from middle class back grounds. Sandy brook too. The university one a few years back. Not exactly a place poor destitute people go. The number of disgruntled employees over the years that have taken out their offices.

 

[Bodhi]

Yeah yeah, you just state that something is fact and it demands to be accepted. Not questioned.

And quotes from that bastion of unbiased reporting, The Huffington Post. I'd always suggest reading both sides of the story then coming to a conclusion, some folks just skip that bit and read stuff that supports their views. Confirmation bias I believe it's called.

You could try to eradicate guns from the States, but, well, good luck with that. I'd just try to avoid the situation where anyone can walk into Walmart and buy an AR-15 Assault rifle.....

 

[Raven]

Its not just the large shootings but all the street shootings that go on, they just wouldn't happen with sensible gun control.

Saying gun crime is a direct result of poverty is about as useful as comparing climate change to the amount of pirates on the high seas. It is not directly caused by poverty, it is directly caused by the proliferation of both legal and illegal firearms and America's attitude to firearms.

 

[DaGaffer]

This guy used four handguns. No semi-automatics required, just standard Wal-Mart 3-day permit stuff. I'm not going to get into all this again. The people on here with the entrenched (and flat wrong) opinions will maintain them despite the absolutely overwhelming and blatantly obvious evidence that wide accessibility of guns kills more people. Everywhere. Not just in the US.

 

[Scouse]

wide accessibility of guns kills more people. Everywhere. Not just in the US.

Agree 100%.

However, like @Bodhi said - good luck getting the guns off them.

In the meantime action on poverty and education makes a big difference to levels of gun crime death. Obama should be taking action on that. But instead he's moaning on about school shootings - which grab headlines and pulls on heartstrings - but generally come around because of lone ex-bullied or alienated people with mental health issues.

Meanwhile shootings are happening all over the US and there's a proven method of reducing their frequency. But it's not sexy. It's a bit like people here complaining about people jumping on the immigrant bandwagon because of the pictures of that dead kid - but FH users are jumping on the anti-gun bandwagon because of a handful of school shootings whilst ignoring the massive gun-related deaths elsewhere...

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXQNUYDDIiI


I think I'd do the same if someone with that voice spoke to me.