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[old.Tohtori]

Show me one instance where two societies competing over a finite resource didn't end up against each other.

Homosexuals and heterosexuals?

 

[Job]

It is natural...time after time they put people through testing where they give themselves away by prefering their own culture/appearance...it is hard wired in the brain..of course you can suppress it or eliminate it by exposing yourself to your 'phobia'

 

[Raven]

Not quite right, Job.

 

[Job]

Anyways my mother just rang me..it seems I logged onto facetwats about a year ago on her computer...she is browsing the National trust site and up pops a Facebook advert with every single person I know..including ex wives and husbands of relatives and their new children...they really are taking the fukin piss

 

[Moriath]

Well, isn't -everything- more or less 'to the basis' You can't justify being xenophobic or being racist by saying, oh it's natural, you don't see me going around killing people, because we're competing over food.

We complain and argue about things which are socially constructed, anything out of it we don't really argue with.

Race itself is deemed as a social construct, for instance, we saw Native Americans as 'tanned whites' until we figured we couldn't convert them, and we needed their land, so we found an excuse to kill them by saying 'oh, they're not us, they're uhm, red?!'

The reason why I quoted you, and not Job, is because you don't seem to be justifying your behaviour by saying it's natural, because if your justification for -anything- is based up on 'nature' is even more so ridiculous then basing your justification on religion.

As to the answer to what you were saying @Moriath, which will probably be facepalm worthy again, is that if we go in an economic boom, we spend more on the NHS and the countries infrastructure, then you don't notice immigrants who come over here stealing our jobs, yada-ya.

But it never catches up. even in affluent years it doesn't make up for the deficit. Same most people don't see that. I can see why some would be appeased but not me.

 

[DaGaffer]

But it is nature. Which is why the have nots and think they have nots are the ones flocking to the nutcase parties.

Show me one instance where two societies competing over a finite resource didn't end up against each other.

That's not Xenophobia though. The definition is an unreasonable or irrational fear of foreigners. Actual competition for resources is a different thing to thinking all foreigners are a threat.

 

[DaGaffer]

It is natural...time after time they put people through testing where they give themselves away by prefering their own culture/appearance...it is hard wired in the brain..of course you can suppress it or eliminate it by exposing yourself to your 'phobia'

A preference for one thing doesn't mean hatred of another. Its a false dichotomy.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Its a false dichotomy.

Hate those, all the snipsnip for nothing.

 

[Raven]

That's not Xenophobia though. The definition is an unreasonable or irrational fear of foreigners. Actual competition for resources is a different thing to thinking all foreigners are a threat.

ofc its xenophobia ffs, xenophobia is just the name we have given a state of mind. How that state of mind is got to is irrelevant. The psychological fear of other groups of people regardless of race or status because somewhere in the mind that other group is after our shit, be it real things or imaginary things or culture, or effects on ones culture.

 

[DaGaffer]

ofc its xenophobia ffs, xenophobia is just the name we have given a state of mind. How that state of mind is got to is irrelevant. The psychological fear of other groups of people regardless of race or status because somewhere in the mind that other group is after our shit, be it real things or imaginary things or culture, or effects on ones culture.

Its totally relevant.

 

[Moriath]

Its totally relevant.

According to you . You and Scouse are great at drawing final conclusions that don't reflect that there is more than one point of view.

It's relevant to you but not necessarily to everyone.

Not everything you say is a fait a compli.

 

[DaGaffer]

According to you . You and Scouse are great at drawing final conclusions that don't reflect that there is more than one point of view.

It's relevant to you but not necessarily to everyone.

Not everything you say is a fait a compli.

"ah we're all racists anyway". Abdication to our genes. The argument of scoundrels.

 

[Scouse]

You and Scouse are great at drawing final conclusions that don't reflect that there is more than one point of view.

Whilst you labour under the mistaken impression that all points of view are equally correct - when some are right and some aren't.


Edit: For the record - I occupy the middle ground. We're genetically predisposed to certain behavioural traits - racism, however, isn't a natural outcome of this. Cultural factors push us into racist behaviour - but the slope is simply lubed so it's easy to become so.

Racism is more nurture than nature - but just like humans readily leap to belief rather than self-doubt and evidence, we can easily leap to racist action. But it is cultural factors that push us there - it is not innate.

 

[Gwadien]

Whilst you labour under the mistaken impression that all points of view are equally correct - when some are right and some aren't.


Edit: For the record - I occupy the middle ground. We're genetically predisposed to certain behavioural traits - racism, however, isn't a natural outcome of this. Cultural factors push us into racist behaviour - but the slope is simply lubed so it's easy to become so.

Racism is more nurture than nature - but just like humans readily leap to belief rather than self-doubt and evidence, we can easily leap to racist action. But it is cultural factors that push us there - it is not innate.

As I said before, race is a human creation, and it has political agendas to follow it, like blacks are slaves now they're persecuted minorities, but you're racist of you disagree with that, because its the opposite to what we have created.

Time of slaves, you were racist if you thought slaves should be free, because that was against the social norms, and they wouldn't be able to cope being free.

 

[Scouse]

race is a human creation

Absolutely untrue.

Race is a product of partial genetic isolation resulting in common physical traits between those most closely genetically related. Some visible, like the colour of skin, average height, eye shape - and some not visible - like blood markers, predisposition to certain diseases, intellect.

That last one really gets people's anger up - and it got James Watson, one of the fathers of modern genetics, ostracised from public life in disgrace.

I understand that ostracisation - because we as a society have decided, for the good of humankind, that small genetic differences between people are not suitable reasons for wholesale discrimination.

But race is definitely not a human creation. We are not created exactly equal. But we MUST BE treated so.

 

[Gwadien]

Absolutely untrue.

Race is a product of partial genetic isolation resulting in common physical traits between those most closely genetically related. Some visible, like the colour of skin, average height, eye shape - and some not visible - like blood markers, predisposition to certain diseases, intellect.

That last one really gets people's anger up - and it got James Watson, one of the fathers of modern genetics, ostracised from public life in disgrace.

I understand that ostracisation - because we as a society have decided, for the good of humankind, that small genetic differences between people are not suitable reasons for wholesale discrimination.

But race is definitely not a human creation. We are not created exactly equal. But we MUST BE treated so.

If race is natural, why do the same groups of people get labeled with different races throughout history?

Surely if it was that way then it would be universal.

The concept of white & black is a relatively new description.

 

[Scouse]

Thought I'd better add a qualifier - by intellect I meant "as measured by IQ" - which doesn't really measure "intelligence" more than it measures people's abilities to pass a certain standardised test repeatedly.


Edit: Goddamnit Gwad posting as I'm typing

If race is natural, why do the same groups of people get labeled with different races throughout history?

I don't actually think "race" is a scientific term. But I daresay you could come up with a scientific labelling system which linked phenotipic and genetic similarities to hereditable ancestry from certain geographic locations.

Don't know why you'd want to tho - because A) it's not going to help us much, and; B) if you did you'd be ostracised much like Watson...

 

[Scouse]

Christ

 

[megadave]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgBZ_X2_h9A


lol

 

[Moriath]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgBZ_X2_h9A


lol

Hmmmm and?

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[BloodOmen]

Christ

She should be in a mental hospital, no sane person does what she did and quite frankly i'd argue she's a danger to herself and members of the public.

 

[CorNokZ]

"u wot m8?" - lol

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2014/12/01/the-internet-reacts-to-tony-blairs-christmas-card/

 

[Raven]

1x funny doesn't quite cover it.

 

[Job]

The point I'm trying to make is not excuse ourselves for built in prejudices..but if we want to fix something there's no point in starting from where think or where we would like to be..we have to start at the truth...anything else is pointless..you wouldn't think it helpful to scream at someone who is afraid of spiders that they should just ignore that tarantula on the bed..but in xenophobia we expect people to do just this or face the racist chant...xenophobia is a frickin phobia and sufferers need help with slow exposure..you wouldn't cure a morbid fear of snakes by throwing the person in a snake pit without causing them serious mental harm..but all over this country that is what is happening usually to people with less cosmopolitan ubringing to cope..and the fuckin intellectuals are scratching their heads..'they must all be bigots...let's shame them.'

 

[old.Tohtori]

Calling racism xenophobia, in most cases, is just like the schools dropping the ADHD bomb on every turn.

Sometimes the cow is just a cow.

 

[Raven]

It isn't a prejudice against any particular group or trait "just because they are dirty foreigners!" it can be any other group of people, regardless of race. It can include people in the next village if you like. You're confusing your backwards racism with your xenophobia.

Racism is a human construct, xenophobia is a natural construct.

 

[DaGaffer]

The point I'm trying to make is not excuse ourselves for built in prejudices..but if we want to fix something there's no point in starting from where think or where we would like to be..we have to start at the truth...anything else is pointless..you wouldn't think it helpful to scream at someone who is afraid of spiders that they should just ignore that tarantula on the bed..but in xenophobia we expect people to do just this or face the racist chant...xenophobia is a frickin phobia and sufferers need help with slow exposure..you wouldn't cure a morbid fear of snakes by throwing the person in a snake pit without causing them serious mental harm..but all over this country that is what is happening usually to people with less cosmopolitan ubringing to cope..and the fuckin intellectuals are scratching their heads..'they must all be bigots...let's shame them.'

...and sorry, I just don't buy it. I can get on board with the idea that people are culturally inclined to distrust or dislike members of an out group, but I just don't believe most people are actively phobic about them. That's why I took issue with Raven's earlier post, "xenophobia" is a very specific thing, and is clearly not what's going on with most UKIP little Englanders, who are still quite happy to spend two weeks in Torremolenos or Tuscany or whatever. Xenophobes don't do that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Add to that the current world status, where all races/people/religions/natiolaties are at the touch of a linkclick. In the past the people in the next village were unknown and as such were not only a threat, but a source of fear. Where xenophobia actually comes from; "fear of the foreign/strange".

These days our neighbouring "villages" aren't unknown(albeit a bit weird). I can understand if a tribe in the kongo jungle is afraid of white folks running in, they haven't seen anything like that, but if you're living in any part of the "civilized" world then you have no excuse unless you have a real psychological problem and you're actually xenophobic.

To say it like some guy i know from somewhere; evidence based thinking doesn't support racism.

 

[Raven]

I dunno, they all sleep with their pets in the village next to mine, freaks, the lot of them. not to be trusted.