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[Scouse]

It was the government and a fair trial he was afraid of.

No. As soon as he faced a fair trial - as negotiated by the UK government (who wouldn't give him one) then he went to Jordan and stood trial.

Evidence obtained under torture is horribly unreliable, unethical and disgraceful. Once that was banned he went "fair enough, try me".

OUR cunt of a government tried for years to get him sent to a country that tortured people to obtain "evidence" against him. We're the cunts.

 

[Gwadien]

As much as you may dislike the Labour Party, I'm not their number one fan, it's easy to pass them off as big spenders that ruins the country, but it's also important to remember what good they were responsible for;


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL7V0srlU2E


They may have a cause anymore, but hopefully they'll find their roots.

 

[Scouse]

I can see a freedom of speech argument. But allowing me to give my view is different from consistently trying to radicalise people to cause harm to others. And is in fact against the law I believe.

Some of these people are why there are 500 odd UK citizens fighting for IS in Syria.

1) You can see a "freedom of speech" argument but you don't believe in freedom of speech.

2) He's never been convicted of "trying to radicalise" people - he was jailed without trial or even charges being brought against him and years later deported to a despot country.

3) He's come out and strongly and publicly condemned IS.

So, whatever way you look at your post, you're wrong.

These are the facts in an easy to read timeline:

• October 2002: Detained at Belmarsh high-security prison following a law allowing authorities to hold foreign terrorism suspects without charge or trial

• March 2005: Law Lords ban detention without charge, ordering release. He is initially issued with a control order, but subsequently detained again

• April 2008: Court of Appeal rules deporting Abu Qatada will breach his human rights, because evidence to be used against him in Jordan may have been obtained through torture

• February 2009: Law Lords back deportation, saying the Court of Appeal got it wrong

• January 2012: European Court of Human Rights overturns that decision, saying he cannot be deported while "there remains real risk that evidence obtained by torture will be used against him"

• April 2013: UK government signs a treaty with Jordan, complete with guarantees on fair trials, to ensure Abu Qatada can be deported - which he is later that year

• June 2014: Civilian court in Jordan clears Abu Qatada of involvement in a 1998 bombing campaign

• September 2014: Civilian court in Jordan clears Abu Qatada of planning a thwarted terrorist plot in 2000

So. Not guilty of any crimes. Held in jail in the UK for a long time with no charge and no trial.

We're a fucking disgrace.

 

[Scouse]

What we are discussing is not freedom of speech but that you think the limits of speech should be drawn at a different point to me.

No, we're discussing freedom of speech - but you think there should be limits.

I.E. No freedom.

Say what you like, and I'll feel free to call you a dick. If you're dumb enough to fall for someone telling you to go and kill someone then you're the kind of twat that would put his finger in the fire if someone told him to...

Personal responsibility is the counterbalance to freedom of speech. But governments don't like free speech - because they believe that the public is too childlike to be personally responsible for their own actions.

Governments can ctfoadoa tbfh...

 

[TdC]

I saw this on youtube and the first thing I thought was "if that dude looked a bit more like John Cleese it would prolly be @Lamp from FH".


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lft51kJdDxc

 

[Job]

Today I learned that Jason Orange..who has left Take That is a mormon...he hides it well.

 

[Scouse]

Couple of facepalms there @Moriath but not a shred of evidenced counter-argument...

 

[Moriath]

@Scouse three bites at the cherry and still you talk crap. We don't have freedom of speech. Full stop.

It's what you deny or allow that the question is.

He was imprisoned and put on house arrest to keep him from breeding his hate. He would have been put to trial had they not been seeking to extradit.

The government that the people voted in decided to do that so we as society bare responsibility. They are our representatives. They set the social acceptable limits.

We get to vote again next year may be they will change.

But speech being free. And people being free are aspirations that we will never have if we want to live in such a crowded world in a democratic environment were we allow those we vote for to determine our best route through time.

 

[Moriath]

Couple of facepalms there @Moriath but not a shred of evidenced counter-argument...

Give me a minute to type ffs

 

[Scouse]

Give me a minute to type ffs

Fair enough m8. Don't get timings on facepalms

But again:

We don't have freedom of speech. Full stop.

I know. That's not the argument. We should. But you don't think so - you side with a government that thinks we're too childlike to cope with it.

He was imprisoned and put on house arrest to keep him from breeding his hate. He would have been put to trial had they not been seeking to extradit.

You go to prison after trial. Not before. You're innocent until proven guilty.

He's never been proven guilty of anything. So we kept an innocent man in prison.


As for the rest of your post, I just can't be arsed opening that can of worms. You just go on continuing to trust others to run your life for you mate.

Ignore Carl:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24YOySHM5mw

 

[Moriath]

Not saying he went to trial. Just we approve people to make these choices. If you don't like the framework in which these choices were made and legal according to UK law. Then vote for someone who differs. Or side with a pressure group who will lobby.

As an individual we have limited power. We have limited free speech. But it's the only way it can work in a planet where democracy rules.

 

[Scouse]

The reason this case was controversial is that it was a clear subversion of the basic principles of the rule of law - including the presumption of innocence.

We don't detain people without trial. (Well, clearly we do nowadays)...

It's our job as citizens to hold our governments to account - not to go "hey yeah, just burn those jews eh, you made it legal after all..."


IMO your attitude towards these clear governmental abuses stinks.

 

[Gwadien]

The reason this case was controversial is that it was a clear subversion of the basic principles of the rule of law - including the presumption of innocence.

We don't detain people without trial. (Well, clearly we do nowadays)...

It's our job as citizens to hold our governments to account - not to go "hey yeah, just burn those jews eh, you made it legal after all..."


IMO your attitude towards these clear governmental abuses stinks.

But Jews aren't Muslims, so it's fine.

IIRC, there was a event by Britain First to boycott Muslim owned shops, like all of them, not even just like halal butchers... They also wear uniforms...

They claim they have no links to fascism, hehehe.

 

[Moriath]

The reason this case was controversial is that it was a clear subversion of the basic principles of the rule of law - including the presumption of innocence.

We don't detain people without trial. (Well, clearly we do nowadays)...

It's our job as citizens to hold our governments to account - not to go "hey yeah, just burn those jews eh, you made it legal after all..."


IMO your attitude towards these clear governmental abuses stinks.

But we do because we have done. The difference is that I am ok with that and you aren't.

It's our job as citizens to take a view of do we accept this or not.. As I sad before, yawn, if you don't like it set up your own political party or join a pressure group and change it. That was the bit you ignored before.

 

[Hawkwind]

Our government acted like a cunt for letting a known jihadist in the country on a counterfeit passport.

fixed

 

[Hawkwind]

First to boycott Muslim owned shops, like all of them, not even just like halal butchers... They also wear uniforms...

They claim they have no links to fascism, hehehe.

Didn't Denmark recently ban both Halal & Kosher slaughter of animals

 

[CorNokZ]

Didn't Denmark recently ban both Halal & Kosher slaughter of animals

Yup, we did. You're still allowed to import halal and Kosher meat, but slaughtering animals in such ways are no longer allowed

 

[old.Tohtori]

I know. That's not the argument. We should.

Funny from someone who thinks 90% of the time i should shut up

 

[Job]

Note 3 does considerably better in bend test....warning this video might make you cringe...I'm sorry Apple...you have fucked up.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwM4ypi3at0

 

[old.Tohtori]

Why would you ever be in a situation where that "feature" is important. Or have i seriously underestimated the structual integrity of modern "phones".

 

[CorNokZ]

I've seen milk last longer than the iPhone6

 

[CorNokZ]

Why would you ever be in a situation where that "feature" is important. Or have i seriously underestimated the structual integrity of modern "phones".

People are reporting that the iPhone6 bends in their pocket when they sit down

 

[old.Tohtori]

If it wouldn't bend then it would be too big and uncomfortable for your pocket anyway.

And pants? Really? Moden phones are destroyed by pants?

 

[Nate]

But does it blend?

 

[Raven]

If it wouldn't bend then it would be too big and uncomfortable for your pocket anyway.

And pants? Really? Moden phones are destroyed by pants?

No, its mostly I-phones that bend when in trousers - where else are you going to put it?

(who the fuck puts their phone in their pants?!)

...and yes casual dig at Americanism

Phones are tested for bending, bashing, crushing etc to make sure they are up to a couple of years of use, obviously Apple don't bother with that.

 

[CorNokZ]

Where do you put it? Your man-purse?

 

[Raven]

In my trouser pocket.

 

[CorNokZ]

Ahhh it was the americanificization of the word that got your panties in a twist?

 

[Raven]

My knickers!

 

[Hawkwind]

Note 3 does considerably better in bend test....warning this video might make you cringe...I'm sorry Apple...you have fucked up.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwM4ypi3at0

What an unscientific pointless stress test. This is how its done:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA9Kato1CxA


EDIT: Problem with the test is the pressure points of where his thumbs are. All the pressure is applied close to the case edge. Needs to be clamped and measured pressure wise.