The State of RvR Discussions

[ebenezer]

Just read through an old thread, and atleast half the posters in it are, at this moment of time banned. The sad thing is, it was them who made these forums worth reading. You keep being such a dickhead about things Flim, and there wont be any DAoC forums left for you to play Deity on.

lol....i rather have flim trying to do his work then people trying to be high allmighty and trying to opress others by showing how good they are etc.
And very mature comment there btw....were the banned people also as polite and articulate as you? Maybe thats why they got their ban in first place^^

 

[CstasY]

lol....i rather have flim trying to do his work then people trying to be high allmighty and trying to opress others by showing how good they are etc.
And very mature comment there btw....were the banned people also as polite and articulate as you? Maybe thats why they got their ban in first place^^

Maturity comebacks are so last year. Find yourself some new material.

 

[pip]

Sorry but I can't understand a word.

Let me try explain this better to you I used to drink in a bar were there was on average 20 people every night you understand that?
they was allways smoking the weed? you understand that?
the bar man kicked all them idiots out of the bar now you get 60-70 in there now you no why?
because people feel happy there now because all the idiots have gone

 

[ebenezer]

Maturity comebacks are so last year. Find yourself some new material.

its still a word that have a meaning....how about not being epeen and try to understand it?

 

[CstasY]

Let me try explain this better to you I used to drink in a bar were there was on average 20 people every night you understand that?
they was allways smoking the weed? you understand that?
the bar man kicked all them idiots out of the bar now you get 60-70 in there now you no why?
because people feel happy there now because all the idiots have gone

Ok, so after all the whiners have been kicked off the boards, whats Flim going to mod then? There will be no threads which need modding, because every single thread will read: Hehe well done (Insert realm) on taking (Insert Keep) at (Insert Time), we really had no chance!

 

[Hrymf]

Ok, so after all the whiners have been kicked off the boards, whats Flim going to mod then? There will be no threads which need modding, because every single thread will read: Hehe well done (Insert realm) on taking (Insert Keep) at (Insert Time), we really had no chance!

Think Bigchief made a note about this perfect world earlier, afraid Flim would feel quiet happy with this boring reality :<

 

[Calo]

Just read through an old thread, and atleast half the posters in it are, at this moment of time banned. The sad thing is, it was them who made these forums worth reading. You keep being such a dickhead about things Flim, and there wont be any DAoC forums left for you to play Deity on.

you mean your buddy's gamah & infanity who whined about every single living being?

nope we don't really miss them.

 

[Sharkith]

Nice post I was getting bored with the forum and finally someone puts something thoughtful up. I agree with some of it although it would have to be qualified a bit. Ethlids made the points about the policies and thats what matters. Those pointing fingers at Mods ought to think about why they always feel they should blame someone instead of trying to be constructive and less personal?

To be honest the only golden rule is that policies work well if they are not stifling discussion and if they are more or less invisible. However occassionally the policies do stifle discussion here.

On flaming I would tend to agree with Ethlids it might make sense to cut the flames out and lock those and allow a decent discussion to continue rather than locking it outright. It is bloody irritating to miss commenting on a nice thread because some people insist on playing like school kids in a playground want to call each other childish names. It a thread gets locked because of bitching childlike behaviour then the bitch wins and so the forums suffers and I don't think thats necessarily a good thing. So it might be worthwhile considering splitting threads when the usual suspects turn up to contribute the usual bile to a discussion.

As for bans I disagree with Ethlids I honestly feel they have been for very clear reasons. However, and this is important, the main reason for many bans I think is the infamous add whine rule. The rule is evenly applied but as you say the subject is very very controversial and there does not seem to be a consensus.

On add whine I kind of agree but to be honest Ethlids that subject has never been adequately addressed especially by those who do the whining. I mean they feel strongly about it they are vocal and they are passionate. I have to say I also understand why they feel the way they do and I also know just how frustrating it can get. However those who propone the rule have done virtually nothing to help build a consensus on the issue. Worse than this they just use it as a stick to sound l33t and with vitrol to pick on others.

If those who proponed a no adding policy would try to do it more constructively then there might be no such thing as adding whine just people discussing how to try and enjoy a game more and respect each other. Instead all we get from that vocal group is whine. It would help their cause 100% more if they would try to figure out that working with the so called stealth zergers, adders who do take and interest in these forums etc might actually mean that they get zerged less and so on?

Maybe just maybe if people were a bit more constructive in how they approached that issue they would get more people on their side and there would be no such thing as adding whine?

 

[Thidranki_Superstar]

Calling someone an ass is kinda a personal attack aswell if you gonna look at it that way

Especially when he posted it :/

 

[Thidranki_Superstar]

you mean your buddy's gamah & infanity who whined about every single living being?

nope we don't really miss them.

WE is speaking as the whole forum, I found some of Gamahs posts funny etc.

So if i say: Your a retarded roleplayer - Doesn't mean WE as a forum all think that.

 

[ebenezer]

Nice post I was getting bored with the forum and finally someone puts something thoughtful up. I agree with some of it although it would have to be qualified a bit. Ethlids made the points about the policies and thats what matters. Those pointing fingers at Mods ought to think about why they always feel they should blame someone instead of trying to be constructive and less personal?

To be honest the only golden rule is that policies work well if they are not stifling discussion and if they are more or less invisible. However occassionally the policies do stifle discussion here.

On flaming I would tend to agree with Ethlids it might make sense to cut the flames out and lock those and allow a decent discussion to continue rather than locking it outright. It is bloody irritating to miss commenting on a nice thread because some people insist on playing like school kids in a playground want to call each other childish names. It a thread gets locked because of bitching childlike behaviour then the bitch wins and so the forums suffers and I don't think thats necessarily a good thing. So it might be worthwhile considering splitting threads when the usual suspects turn up to contribute the usual bile to a discussion.

As for bans I disagree with Ethlids I honestly feel they have been for very clear reasons. However, and this is important, the main reason for many bans I think is the infamous add whine rule. The rule is evenly applied but as you say the subject is very very controversial and there does not seem to be a consensus.

On add whine I kind of agree but to be honest Ethlids that subject has never been adequately addressed especially by those who do the whining. I mean they feel strongly about it they are vocal and they are passionate. I have to say I also understand why they feel the way they do and I also know just how frustrating it can get. However those who propone the rule have done virtually nothing to help build a consensus on the issue. Worse than this they just use it as a stick to sound l33t and with vitrol to pick on others.

If those who proponed a no adding policy would try to do it more constructively then there might be no such thing as adding whine just people discussing how to try and enjoy a game more and respect each other. Instead all we get from that vocal group is whine. It would help their cause 100% more if they would try to figure out that working with the so called stealth zergers, adders who do take and interest in these forums etc might actually mean that they get zerged less and so on?

Maybe just maybe if people were a bit more constructive in how they approached that issue they would get more people on their side and there would be no such thing as adding whine?

very very good and constructive points and opinion agree to most of it.

 

[Flimgoblin]

And maybe you should try something more mature than "omfgz mods suck!", i actually take that as a directed insult towards me, because i went and wrote something related to the thread, and i shared my opinion, and once again you show your arrogance at a person who disagree with you, by insulting me.

When your posts contain more than what reads to me as "flimgoblin is a shit mod but no offence mate!" I might start taking them a bit more to heart
Constructive criticism is a good thing. "Flim let more of the add whine stay around" is good, "Flim you suck" doesn't help.

Now re-reading your original post I see you've made an effort to make it slightly less hostile tone than it would otherwise come across but it's still totally unconstructive.

As for the cummunity part, the only real advice i would give is try listen to us players, keep an eye on whats going on, some players may want to complain about an add ingame in a more mature way, an example would be that some players ingame are known for their fairness, their soloing and such, and if you one day get zerged by that person, you might wanna ask him why or make an debate concerning why he suddenly have switched playing style.

Feel free to do so, there's also a thing called private messages if you want to ask a player a question.

Oh and phrasing posts as "why have you become such an adder XYZ?" doesn't make it ok

I don't recall locking any sensible debates on why players have changed playing style - please link me to something I've locked which you think I shouldn't have (examples are good) and I'll have a look. Despite what some people obviously think I'm open to suggestions. I might not agree but I'm happy to discuss things.

Instead of instant banning and locking the thread, try look at it first, and maybe delete that 1 or 2 posts that seem to bad.

It's true - I could probably delete more offensive posts and lock less and if I had all the time in the world to mod these forums I'd be glad to. Unfortunately I don't always have time to remove 2/3 of a thread individually.

Many people have before stated that we are all entitled to our opinion, but right now it seems like we arent entitled to anything unless Flim agree on it, and alot of people dont feel like maybe showing their concern for a frustrating ingame situation, because they know they are gonna get banned a week to have a word like "nazi" in a thread.

Feel free to take a look at aoln's post history, he's not exactly been the friendliest of people today and he's been making snide "ban me" comments all day - so he got his wish.

By the way, who's disgruntled alt posting account are you? You've obviously been banned and are sore about it - you do know that if you were banned wrongly (or feel you were banned wrongly) you can create an alt account (for PMs only) and pm a mod and ask why.

Or perhaps you prefer to just lurk until you find a good opportunity to rant about the fascist evil mods, I'd prefer the former though obviously the latter gets more fireworks which makes the forum "better" in some people's view.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Think Bigchief made a note about this perfect world earlier, afraid Flim would feel quiet happy with this boring reality :<

I must have missed the point where all discussion stops when you're not allowed to call everyone else a retard and whine about adding... maybe for some people there's nothing else worth discussing I guess - must be a bit boring.

 

[Hrymf]

When your posts contain more than what reads to me as "flimgoblin is a shit mod but no offence mate!" I might start taking them a bit more to heart
Constructive criticism is a good thing. "Flim let more of the add whine stay around" is good, "Flim you suck" doesn't help.

Now re-reading your original post I see you've made an effort to make it slightly less hostile tone than it would otherwise come across but it's still totally unconstructive.



Feel free to do so, there's also a thing called private messages if you want to ask a player a question.

Oh and phrasing posts as "why have you become such an adder XYZ?" doesn't make it ok

I don't recall locking any sensible debates on why players have changed playing style - please link me to something I've locked which you think I shouldn't have (examples are good) and I'll have a look. Despite what some people obviously think I'm open to suggestions. I might not agree but I'm happy to discuss things.



It's true - I could probably delete more offensive posts and lock less and if I had all the time in the world to mod these forums I'd be glad to. Unfortunately I don't always have time to remove 2/3 of a thread individually.



Feel free to take a look at aoln's post history, he's not exactly been the friendliest of people today and he's been making snide "ban me" comments all day - so he got his wish.

By the way, who's disgruntled alt posting account are you? You've obviously been banned and are sore about it - you do know that if you were banned wrongly (or feel you were banned wrongly) you can create an alt account (for PMs only) and pm a mod and ask why.

Or perhaps you prefer to just lurk until you find a good opportunity to rant about the fascist evil mods, I'd prefer the former though obviously the latter gets more fireworks which makes the forum "better" in some people's view.

Once again you got no clue what you talk about, im not some "alt" account, this is the account i have, and the one i use.
Also once again you insult me with changing my words into some random swearing words of your own choise, you really cant expect us to stay non hostile when you mug a person like that. I never used anything remotely close to "Flim suck" but i simple stated i disliked your way of modding, now perhaps you would try act a wee bit more mature in this thread instead of feeling all bad about your past doings catching up on you?

 

[Flimgoblin]

Once again you got no clue what you talk about, im not some "alt" account, this is the account i have, and the one i use.
Also once again you insult me with changing my words into some random swearing words of your own choise, you really cant expect us to stay non hostile when you mug a person like that. I never used anything remotely close to "Flim suck" but i simple stated i disliked your way of modding, now perhaps you would try act a wee bit more mature in this thread instead of feeling all bad about your past doings catching up on you?

OK then I don't actually recall ever banning you - when did I ban you and what was the reason given? You've obviously got a grievance but you're quite right I don't know what it is - not sure what it has to do with ingame since I can't ban anyone ingame.... maybe it's just me but I just don't get your problem about a "nice ban with a argument which made absolute no sense" - what ban what argument? I'm sure it's quite possible you were banned previously but given you're not banned now I can't check a reason - and anyway this should all be in PMs.

Anyway, your original quote:

Flim have proved to me he have no clue about how daoc works and know absolutely nothing about ingame, since not long ago i got a nice ban with a argument which made absolute no sense.
So im more than willing to say Flim is a obvious fault in the current FH, and this is my opinion ofcourse, which is in no way an attack on Flim, but just the utter bad modding skills.

You'll excuse me if I don't take "Flim have proved to me he have no clue about how daoc works" as being a constructive bit of criticism. I take that to be pretty insulting.

 

[Bracken]

very good, balanced post

Rep point for a really well stated post

 

[Flimgoblin]

On flaming I would tend to agree with Ethlids it might make sense to cut the flames out and lock those and allow a decent discussion to continue rather than locking it outright.

I agree there sometimes I don't have time to nuke all the individual bits of rubbish unfortunately.

often if it's a decent thread but fairly new I'll do my best to nuke the rubbish but when it gets to 5 pages+ (at 40 posts a page) it gets somewhat tricky.

 

[bigchief]

We have forum rules, one of which is "don't whine about adds" - I'd agree I am being fairly heavy handed on this particular rule. That's intentional and it's in response to every grats thread on this forum for at least a fortnight before I did being filled with really quite hideous and nasty personal attacks, all starting with "omgz well added meightors!"

I may be in the minority here but my view on a grats thread is 2 fold. If its someone I respect as a player (both people I play with and against) I will post a gratz. If its some zerging nob jockey then I'm not going to post, and tbh the only reason I would have for reading a grats thread ever is to see the negative comments. A 10 page thread where every post just says

grats

well done matey

gratz m8 !

etc etc has to be the dullest and biggest waste of my time ever to read. I would read a grats thread to see who actually has the same opinion as me about certain players and then I can post and agree/disagree. I certainly would not expect a 5 page grats thread where everyone says grats to me if I dinged and that has certainly not been the case. Not everyone likes me (bizzarly) but they're still imo fully entitled to their own view and if they wish to express that in my thread then they can.

The current rule seems to be if you can't post something nice then don't post at all and I have to point out that its an online forum where the majority of users are adults (or at least young adults), theres no hordes of 6yr old girls (god imagine Gamah if there were ) to protect, I agree people can certainly cross the line with really harsh comments towards individuals but when comments are only attacking a playstyle and not that person in real life I really cannot see the problem and why it is dealt with so severely.

 

[Flimgoblin]

grats threads are a funny beast my life would be much simpler without them.

However given that some parts of the FH community are a lot lot more vocal than others it's hard for anyone to get a grats thread that's not 12 pages of flame filled bile unless they're a member of the club.

If someone who plays a scout for example dings a RR there will be at least 5 or 6 whines within the hour, these then escalate. By definition it being in a grats thread makes it a personal attack. You don't have to like everyone but if you don't - don't read their grats thread, don't look at it, don't post in it.

That way instead of some "uber adder archer omgz zerger!" getting their grats on the front page for 4 days and a 400 post thread they get 3 half-hearted "grats"es and it vanishes from view.

I don't see why not being able to whine about someone adding means you can't disagree with anything anyone says though or why being told off for calling people "retard" repeatedly means that everyone has to post threads entirely about "Ooh fluffy bunnies and flowers".

Most of the posters on this board can post things that are perfectly fine all of the time - there's a small percentage that lose their rag now and again and then there's people who's entire post count reads like an irvine welsh novel.

 

[bigchief]

grats threads are a funny beast however given that some parts of the FH community are a lot lot more vocal than others it's hard for anyone to get a grats thread that's not 12 pages of flame filled bile unless they're a member of the club.

If someone who plays a scout for example dings a RR there will be at least 5 or 6 whines within the hour, these then escalate. By definition it being in a grats thread makes it a personal attack. You don't have to like everyone but if you don't - don't read their grats thread, don't look at it, don't post in it.

That way instead of some "uber adder archer omgz zerger!" getting their grats on the front page for 4 days and a 400 post thread they get 3 half-hearted "grats"es and it vanishes from view.

if thats what you want tho whats the point in having them at all? Theres no discussion, just what is technically farm posts.

Posting 'grats' is no better than posting '+1' tbh

 

[Flimgoblin]

if thats what you want tho whats the point in having them at all? Theres no discussion, just what is technically farm posts.

Posting 'grats' is no better than posting '+1' tbh

We've had this discussion and sometimes I agree with that point, other times I think it's nice to see how my rivals in other realms are doing, I used to just ignore any grats thread that wasn't about someone I knew (till some people decided flaming in grats threads was fun) but it's not my decision about grats threads staying here or not I'm afraid so even if I did decide that they were pointless they'd still stay.

Ps. did my usual change my mind and add another 3 paragraphs with an edit trick above. Not that I did that in this thread as well honest.

 

[bigchief]

We've had this discussion and I agree with that point but it's not my decision about grats threads. And they're grats threads not "happy flame day" threads.

Ps. did my usual change my mind and add another 3 paragraphs with an edit trick above.

hmmm

but the same people who have certain irish tendancys are the ones that activly keep the threads alive, which isn't a bad thing. Coming home from work to a 10 page semi flame fest is an amusing read. Coming home to 2 grats threads and a fao thread which is now locked isnt fun, its just dull and ive already stopped reading alot of boards cos they're too dull :<

 

[Flimgoblin]

hmmm

but the same people who have certain irish tendancys are the ones that activly keep the threads alive, which isn't a bad thing. Coming home from work to a 10 page semi flame fest is an amusing read. Coming home to 2 grats threads and a fao thread which is now locked isnt fun, its just dull and ive already stopped reading alot of boards cos they're too dull :<

well unfortunately this ain't the "entertain bigchief with childish bickering" board sorry to disappoint

 

[bigchief]

well unfortunately this ain't the "entertain bigchief with childish bickering" board sorry to disappoint

but as aptly demonstrated by 10 pages of whine, I'm not the only one?

 

[Flimgoblin]

but as aptly demonstrated by 10 pages of whine, I'm not the only one?

Well it's not the "entertain anyone with flames and whine" board however board software and hosting isn't particularly expensive so if you want to make a "WhineWorld" forums give it a shot

 

[Crocky]

instead of using Lockorators. use a forced bad language filter like www.tv.com has. it forbids you to use words & some word combinations like die,dick,.. . it might be easy to avoid if you start writing like: "f*cking d*ck" . but the insult completly looses it's effect when you write it like that.

unmoderated forums (bw) wasn't perfect , but atleast you could laugh with a few posts/threads each day.. Since FH i've never dropped a tear of joy.

posts like :http://jammno.ytmnd.com/ do make a forum fun. if this was posted on FH it would have been deleted.

 

[Calo]

if thats what you want tho whats the point in having them at all? Theres no discussion, just what is technically farm posts.

Posting 'grats' is no better than posting '+1' tbh

Because some ppl like to congrats ppl who have been working on 1 char for 3 years long and finally made it to rr10/11 who really deserve it.

perfect example is the grats thread for plaid, top guy, top player, he deserved that rr10 rank 300%.

so yes , posting grats for you is like +1 because you don't care, for others it isn't. Deal with it, accept other ppl view.

 

[allure]

too many opinions in this thread, no opinions allowed.. your all banned!

 

[Novamir]

honestly, its just upsetting for me. coz this forums DID use to be really funny, absurd, with arguments and discussions and yes even flames, and all were allowed. now, offtopic=move, argument=lock, flame=lock, often disagree=lock.

ive put myself forward for the FH moderator job before, seriously . i do respect the work the mods do but i think they make work for themselves. if the moderators identified with the posters arguing rather than lock/ban, there's far better ways to moderate discussions (ref: Brinx)

 

[Flimgoblin]

too many opinions in this thread, no opinions allowed.. your all banned!

meanie