The Pope's remarks

[SAS]

What's your view on this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5351324.stm ?

In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born Pope explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity, and the relationship between violence and faith.

Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manuel II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The emperor's words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

I can't believe the hype surrounding this. The Pope quoted something and said twice before this is not his views but a quote and still he gets flamed to hell and back.

Question is was he right in using the quote (in its original planned context - he was discussing a topic and used a quote used in the past) or has he over stepped the mark and the Islamic world is right in their out cry?

 

[WPKenny]

From the article: One Anglican church and one Orthodox church were reportedly firebombed in the West Bank city of Nablus.

I think that kind of proves his point.

But seriously, if it didn't serve a purpose to quote the guy then why do it? He obviously agrees with the quote to a degree. But then the muslims go and shoot themselves in the foot by violently protesting.

It's like saying to someone "you're always starting fights!" and they try and dispute the fact by saying "Let's take this outside...".

 

[GDW]

His whole religion oversteps the mark. He is head of a medieval and backward religion whose 'community' leaders like to fuck little boys. If ever there was an evil mainstream religion in this world it is Roman Catholicism

 

[WPKenny]

His whole religion oversteps the mark. He is head of a medieval and backward religion whose 'community' leaders like to fuck little boys. If ever there was an evil mainstream religion in this world it is Roman Catholicism

TBH mate I'd rather be fucked up the arse than die in a bloody pool with burning hot shrapnel peppering my body. Because of course all Catholic priests molest boys and all muslims are suicide bombers....

 

[MrHorus]

I think the next time President Ahmedinejad makes derogatory remarks about Christianity i'm going to burn effigies of allah and the prophet Mohammad, see how well that goes down...

 

[tRoG]

His whole religion oversteps the mark. He is head of a medieval and backward religion whose 'community' leaders like to fuck little boys. If ever there was an evil mainstream religion in this world it is Roman Catholicism

I love this idea that a religion has to change with the times. It would completely devalue everything else the religion says if Benny turned round one morning and told the masses, "Condoms are OK - I'm sure Jesus won't mind that much lol"

Changing their views to suit public opinion would be tantamount to admitting that they don't really know what's going on and are just playing silly buggers. They're not gonna do it.

 

[Kryten]

The pope just quoted part of the worlds most popular work of fiction, The Bible.
If anyone else, for instance, me, stood up in front of a large crowd of morons (yes, morons, for listening to me or someone like the Pope, biblebashers) and quoted something out of Schindlers List - "I quote "Gas all the Jews. Now"" - should I be referred to thereafter as a bigot, or anything else nasty ?

End of the day, it's just another excuse for lots of people to be rather shitty to eachother. The excuse has a name, it's called Religion, and anyone publicly bleeting on about their particular choice of fictional arse kissing should be shot.

Shoot anyone wearing a silly hat and holding a bible
Shoot anyone that 1. has a beard and 2. is called Abdul or Mohammed.

See how long the problems continue. Not long, I guarantee you. Call me racist, bigotted or whatever, but think about it. It's not that far from the truth is it.

Religion = Problem.

 

[Furr]

Just proves how much religion is the cause of so many world problems, im sure the christian right in america are happy since they are counting on some sort of large war.

But to be honest, Muslims don't seem seem to be able to take any criticism. They preach they are non violent but then as soon as something they don't like happens they begin killing people and destoying property. All it does is alienate them even further from the rest of the world, its not like they are in anyones good books at the moment as it is.

We should continue to question Islam, and i mean Islam in the modern era. There's no question that all religions have had long dark spots in their history especially Chrisitanity but thats the nature of religion.

It just seems that today or at least what is portrayed to us that the majority of religious based strife is being caused by Islam in conflict with all other religions.

Its all very good saying "what about the moderates" what moderates? they keep very quiet and don't seem to do squat. All we hear is islamic clerics lambasting the west, we hear of jihads, suiciding bombings, people being killed under sharia law. Lack of female rights the list goes on and on.

Anyway America seems to have taken up the fight against them, the pope will have given ammunition to the far right catholic group, of which there are alot of Cathloics in the world who will look at this. The US also has a tendency to win. Nazis, Communists, and now Islamic extremism, although they are in a good part completely responsible for the problem. But any enemy that uses suicide as a weapon will always be defeated. And should they ever acutally seriously prick the west. The backlash would be so fierce I would probably move to New Zealand for a few years.

 

[Raven]

its not the muslims that cant take criticism its the extremists, i know many muslims who hate all this violence.
i think within the next twenty years its going to kick off in a very big way. its a shame really, we have come such a long way in the last 1000 years advances, in technology, science and medicine and we are going to probably throw it all away over petty religious leaders.

 

[Furr]

Massive conflict can lead to massive progress, WW2 was a terrible terrible war, yet it was a massive catalst for technology, democracy and freedom. You have a generation of children who have had 9/11 as the basis for their understanding of Islam.
The same generation (my generation) is fast approaching the age when we'll be running things. Even the most placid and neutral of people I know over the last few years have become very hostile in their opinion of islam. The fear it, they hate it. It may one day if things get progressivly worse as they have been going boil over. Iran will probably be the flash point.

A massive conflict based on religion may mean that after its over the idea of how religion is today in human society will be relooked at as being incompatible with how we are progressing.

 

[throdgrain]

Fucking precious Muslims and their stupid shit religion. Why dont they all fuckoff is what I want to know?

 

[ECA]

I hear #care on irc is open for anyone who does.

 

[Celestino]

Massive conflict can lead to massive progress, WW2 was a terrible terrible war, yet it was a massive catalst for technology, democracy and freedom. You have a generation of children who have had 9/11 as the basis for their understanding of Islam.
The same generation (my generation) is fast approaching the age when we'll be running things. Even the most placid and neutral of people I know over the last few years have become very hostile in their opinion of islam. The fear it, they hate it. It may one day if things get progressivly worse as they have been going boil over. Iran will probably be the flash point.

A massive conflict based on religion may mean that after its over the idea of how religion is today in human society will be relooked at as being incompatible with how we are progressing.

Even if massive conflict would generally lead to massive progress (and i'd like to quote Einstein here: I don't know what kind of weapons will be used in the third world war, assuming there will be a third world war. But I can tell you what the fourth world war will be fought with -- stone clubs) its absolutly no reason to go out and look for massive conflict.
And I wouldn't call ww2 a catalyst for freedom and democracy thats not as it was played and its only half of the story especially as the alliance included a communist russia and one of the wars result was also the warsaw pact

Another point is that religion can't be compared to technology, simply for the fact that religion doesn't progress just by pumping money into it to develop new stuff that can give u the edge over ur enemy but religion is answering the fears and hopes of the people, for example giving them a imaginary or not place to go to once they leave this world or comforting them when their live turns bad. So massive conflict would not lead into a new understanding of religion but drive more and more ppl towards the old dogmas that promise salvation no matter what happens.


About what the pope said:

His quote misses the point as it was made not about suicide bombings but about the medieval conquests of the muslims which was sanctioned and partly driven by the religion, much like the crusades one might add.
Using this quote he shows a frightening ignorance for reality (apart from his believes) generalizing and trying to place a blame on the religion for the acts of few.

 

[cHodAX]

Conversion by the sword is a sad fact that is rooted in both the Christian and Islam histories. The Pope didn't say anything that wasn't true, he just didn't forsee the shitstorm that this was going to cause.

 

[cHodAX]

His whole religion oversteps the mark. He is head of a medieval and backward religion whose 'community' leaders like to fuck little boys. If ever there was an evil mainstream religion in this world it is Roman Catholicism

OK Mr Paisley, enough of the retorhic please. This is supposed to be a thread to discuss the topic not spread your ideas or any religous bigotory.

 

[Overdriven]

Fucking precious Muslims and their stupid shit religion. Why dont they all fuckoff is what I want to know?

Second biggest fucking idiot on FH I've seen in the last 48 hours.

I think that kind of proves his point.

Exactly what I was thinking as I read it.

 

[adams901]

not just a biggest idiot but a biggest "fucking" idiot.

Poor throd, I bet he is sobbing in the corner somewhere wondering how he can make you like him.

 

[Bodhi]

His whole religion oversteps the mark. He is head of a medieval and backward religion whose 'community' leaders like to fuck little boys. If ever there was an evil mainstream religion in this world it is Roman Catholicism

Hang on a second, are you reeeeealy suggesting the Pope's a Catholic?

 

[Trem]

Second biggest fucking idiot on FH I've seen in the last 48 hours.

Student?

 

[TWS]

Student?

And the 3rd?

Wanker

 

[adams901]

not a fucking wanker then?

 

[Mobius]

Oh boohoo. Nothing outside of our bedrooms really exists anyway.

 

[Trem]

And the 3rd?

Wanker

Ooooh you get me so horny.

Really, tough people always turn me on, I bet you could poke holes through wood with your steel like typing fingers.


*cums*

 

[DaGaffer]

When it comes to Islam and Catholicism my first instinct is "A Curse on Both Your Houses". But I have to say, one area where I do agree with the Pope is his view the Muslims expect freedom of worship in the West, but don't reciprocate:

Benedict XVI undoubtedly wants to achieve better relations with Islam, but there is an important proviso.

It can be summed up in a single word: reciprocity. It means that if Muslims want to enjoy religious freedom in the West, then Christians should have an equal right to follow their faith in Islamic states, without fear of persecution.

I'd be more sympathetic to Muslim ranting about the West's attitudes towards Islam if this was the case, but it isn't, so fuck 'em.

 

[rynnor]

When it comes to Islam and Catholicism my first instinct is "A Curse on Both Your Houses". But I have to say, one area where I do agree with the Pope is his view the Muslims expect freedom of worship in the West, but don't reciprocate:



I'd be more sympathetic to Muslim ranting about the West's attitudes towards Islam if this was the case, but it isn't, so fuck 'em.

Respecting Islam is a lot like respecting the Far right - everyone knows if either got in power there would be no respect for other views.

Its a difficult one - I always believed the moderate muslims could co-exist but even they have views that just arent compatible with a Western democracy - sad to say I think this is one multi-culture too far...

No idea how we fix it - no government will even think about it at the moment - the recent inquiry specifically excluded talking about faith schools before it even began so its not serious.

 

[throdgrain]

Second biggest fucking idiot on FH I've seen in the last 48 hours.

Damn Im impressed

OK, just for the record. I wouldnt care if every small minded jihadi in the entire fucking world exploded after I count to three. I wouldnt give a shit.
The Muslim religion is like a cancer for the world, which persecutes most of its believers, the poor sods who have no choice due to living in third world countries with little or no education, and which is held up by its educated believers, who have little to do with the real oppressed anyway, but are just infected with bullshit in the same way as Moonies or some or bullshit religion. The only difference is the bombs.
As far as you go, you can tie your precious college scarf round your neck, then attatch it to a beam above your head , then jump off a chair.

Now are you outraged sonny?

 

[leggy]

I want to know who's the biggest idiot.

Oh and some other stuff about religion that has been said too many times before.

 

[yaruar]

Just proves how much religion is the cause of so many world problems, im sure the christian right in america are happy since they are counting on some sort of large war.

Actually i think you'll find it's not religion, but people which is the problem. Some of the worst atrocities in the world have been perpetrated in the name of athism..... Maoism being a prime example.

 

[throdgrain]

I went to the trouble of hosting this song, so download it and listen to it for me, just once , aw gwan

 

[Overdriven]

1) Yeah, I'm a student.
2) The biggest idiot was the guy in the 'rap' thread that was posted.
3) College scarf? I'm 'British', not American.

Fucking precious Muslims and their stupid shit religion. Why dont they all fuckoff is what I want to know?

Why don't you say the same for every religion on the planet? Every sub-religion/cult?

I called you a 'fucking idiot' for the above remark, it's the 2nd most ignorant and 2nd most pathetic thing I've heard. Sure, that certain religion atm is causing the most problems. What about all the other ones? - How about if I said:

Fucking precious Christians and their stupid shit religion. Why dont they all fuckoff is what I want to know?

Fucking precious Evangelicalians and their stupid shit religion. Why dont they all fuckoff is what I want to know?

Fucking precious Buddhists and their stupid shit religion. Why dont they all fuckoff is what I want to know?

Etc?

It's shear idioticness. You talk about it being some sort of cancer to the world? Once again - Why not any other religion? Just because people are focused on this one (for the last; what ever amount of years)? Sheesh, look at all the other crap in the last 100-200 years based on a religious belief.

God dammit.

OK, just for the record. I wouldnt care if every small minded jihadi in the entire fucking world exploded after I count to three. I wouldnt give a shit.

Nice attitude though, would be funny if it happened to everyone you loved (By the way, I'm white; ex-christian now atheist) - Fine, my comment wasn't exactly the right way to get around things, but...

"A stupid reply deserves another stupid reply"