The old days

[Loxleyhood]

There's never been a good old days, there's always been something crap. But are you a non-entity, somebody who dies and whines, or are you going to volley everybody's buffbots to death, or lead Bonedancer's pets into red con mobs then shoot the fucker full of holes. There's always been a bad thing at some point, but nothing someone with imagination couldn't overcome.

 

[Alme]

What do you meen with that, I cant get it. You trying to bait me or something?

I doupt you even remember my toons (I sure dont remember you, lol)

what the fuck? how the hell do u manage to think its a bait? and if it was a bait, which its not, why would it be aimed at exactly u?

edit: and omg wonder why neither of us knows the other when we played diff servers?

 

[Mas]

The old days when Svasud Faste was US and half of the mid population came to defend, where keeps werent won by ninja takes or some alb trebbing at 4am, where the spirit was there and you werent judged on ml's arti's, rr or VT skills, where gothis ported out to enemy lands so you could afk and smoke before battle, where casters didnt cast at 1sec speeds, where you had to learn the layouts of the frontiers with no map (although useful as it is), where people used to rezz other people out of their own group, where there used to be mass rvr in DF, where infs had 9 sec df evade stun , where mid had group end off shaman etc etc /takes off the rose tinted specs and loads wow up

 

[Mutoria]

was always better than NF, Nf ruined the population of the game.

bring back pre-toa!

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

I miss getting ganked by a fg camping the North Hill outside ligen.

I miss running to emain & getting rogered by stealthers at the beetle log, or getting rogered by BD's at raemons tower.

I miss all the old 1rp for a kill whine if you got boshed by Raemon on the way to emain (hello 3 zone aggro radius).

I miss the fights with Bigchief (when i could actually win 1 out of 5).

I miss the original alb ninja keep takes.

And i really miss the stealth zergs at the old Amg & Mmg, especially the Rambo / Evita (orignal) crew.



/sigh

the good old days, so many memories & so many more

What you miss is some1 that told you u could go to odins or hadrians, and in extension a brain.


Fact is that daoc lost population when they implemented ToA and NF. Ppl voted with there feet, end of story.
Saying that competetion from other games drained the population some is valid, but not to this extent, neither WoW or other games would have made this many ppl jump the ship.

 

[Rhana]

what the fuck? how the hell do u manage to think its a bait? and if it was a bait, which its not, why would it be aimed at exactly u?

edit: and omg wonder why neither of us knows the other when we played diff servers?

Just the formulation just after my post, well nm then.
I just had a fealing that if it was directed to me, you maybe was thinking I was the same Rhana (an hib) as the one on Excal. Well, sorry, a missunderstanding, nothing else.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

I can say this after playing a freeshard server with OLD frontiers, and rvred in Emain. And having no MLS abilitys. And trying live latly abit.

The RvR was so much more fun on the freeshard server imo, speedwarps / banelords / grapple / bg = not fun

But also the freeshard had action alot to.


So i would say if live would have old emain, no mls old keep system. It would be more fun. Dont need to have artis either, but some wouldnt be such a problem to have..

And remember the freeshard had stuff as castspeed,range,pierce etc to.

Yah was good fun wasn't it blejs

Even had some nice old Guild hatred and bickering going on. Hah.

 

[bela lugosi]

Thoose of u who never played OF should know that it was not a golden age.
A small group of the community got near all the fun and near all the rp's.
(They are the same that want it back)
Took hours to get a group together and u couldnt get to the fights solo.
NF vitalized the game for most players and even made it playable for them.

 

[Fanguir]

Never played OF anyone have a map of it? :england:

 

[Rhana]

Thoose of u who never played OF should know that it was not a golden age.
A small group of the community got near all the fun and near all the rp's.
(They are the same that want it back)
Took hours to get a group together and u couldnt get to the fights solo.
NF vitalized the game for most players and even made it playable for them.

Jupp, true enough

 

[Saje]

I can say this after playing a freeshard server with OLD frontiers, and rvred in Emain. And having no MLS abilitys. And trying live latly abit.

The RvR was so much more fun on the freeshard server imo, speedwarps / banelords / grapple / bg = not fun

But also the freeshard had action alot to.


So i would say if live would have old emain, no mls old keep system. It would be more fun. Dont need to have artis either, but some wouldnt be such a problem to have..

And remember the freeshard had stuff as castspeed,range,pierce etc to.

Easymode extension grp!

Well problem on freeshards is the skill of opponents. When we ran hib the only real challenge we had was fighting ur grp.
The thing i miss most is the attitude. Ppl not caring about roxtoa gear, RR and such. If u were standing in Druim ligen shouting: "48 Druid LFG!" u would most certainly get a grp. Even tho u were a sylvan with 10 quickness from creation
I cant say it wasnt fun rolling random noobs on freeshard with a high rr setgrp. But it gets very old very fast

Anyways i voted yes, i miss the old time. Not the frontiers, not a certain patch, i miss ppl's way of thinking

 

[Laws]

Things i miss about the old days:

I miss the old Relic Keep battles and journeys up to defend. These were great fun and should be implemeted again rather than stupid gates and having to seige through 4 keeps to get to the relic temples. (It just becomes boring and repetitive)

Miss the old type areas such as emain and hadrians, these were great places to roam and fight.

Miss the old style DF, before See Hidden pets etc killed off the stealther community in there.


Things i dont miss about the old days:

What I dont miss is the leet 8 man menatality tearing everthing up in emain.

Waiting for ages to port to emain.

Thing is now the game has gone on from where it was TOA, Stupid Expansion classes such as Animists/Warlocks/Vamps etc, Soo many instas spells being implemented across so many classes have skewed balance so hard that even if the old zones were bought back it would never be the same.

They either they have to revist all classes and balance them across all realms, nerfing most of the post classic classes into the ground (This is too much work and aint gonna happen)

Or they can release a load more OPed BS called Labarinth of the Minotaur and screw the last pennies they can out of you before the games customer base drops below what is economical to sustain the servers.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

After reading some of the ppls posts who have a slight negative attidtude to OF and the 'old days'. I get the impression that ppl didnt like it b/c they couldn't compete a.k.a they sucked. Now in NF they got their items made friends, joined decent guilds and seem to thank NF for this. Wich I find odd.

As I see it ppl who didn't like OF did it b/c they were newbies back then, perhaps was their 1st mmo or didn't know anyone at all in the game when it launched or did not play that much and didn't get good that fast.

I mean arguments like "NP owned emain and all our groups was killed in 10 seconds" isn't that good of an argument to uphold NF over OF. You sucked, you lost, you whined and then you wanted to change the ruleset instead of improving your own play, is what it sounds to me.

I believe that the OF ruleset and enviroment was a whole lot better and thought out ( in whole ) then NF ever was or will be. Also believe that the change in attidtude was a direct result to mythic changing alot of stuff and made it worse then it was to begin with.
Sure the milegates was a problem in many ways, but they could have been dealt with in a more smooth way. As in implementing more milegates opening up for one or two more, natural, travel routes from your teleport keep. They could have put stairs/ladders on the other side to make it harder to camp down a milegate in the defending realm.

All in all saying that "I couldn't get a group back then" or "My group was steamed by better groups" isn't a valid argument claming that NF in fact is or will be better then OF was.
Imo it's almost a childish appraoch to a problem.
"If I can't win, then I'll change the rules" kinda...

 

[Congax]

Sure the milegates was a problem in many ways, but they could have been dealt with in a more smooth way. As in implementing more milegates opening up for one or two more, natural, travel routes from your teleport keep. They could have put stairs/ladders on the other side to make it harder to camp down a milegate in the defending realm.

So in other words - create bridges?

I agree with your post tho, I never quite liked OF but that was indeed mainly because I sucked. Couldn't quite kill much with the ol' Skiltvakten hunter in total crap gear

 

[Aqe]

There's never been a good old days, there's always been something crap. But are you a non-entity, somebody who dies and whines, or are you going to volley everybody's buffbots to death, or lead Bonedancer's pets into red con mobs then shoot the fucker full of holes. There's always been a bad thing at some point, but nothing someone with imagination couldn't overcome.

Well there was 1 patch where realms and classes was balanced. (dont remember number)
Some game mechanics could always been abused but it was realy close to perfect once.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

So in other words - create bridges?

hehe, no. Bridges is one thing that ruin daoc. Allong with upped dmg vs survivability. Op classes and the change of rvr scenary.

 

[Fast]

Yah was good fun wasn't it blejs

Even had some nice old Guild hatred and bickering going on. Hah.

Hej Pat, Blejs

We had great fun there, the nostalgia was a big part at first but once you were over that, personally realised how good OF really was, to sit on the fence though, horses for courses

 

[blejs]

Well TOA made it more "casual" friendly, with all Mls / Artis that could twist the fights easier, and specially when u got added on.

Btw..

01:18] * Topic is ':[ Instant50-RvR DAoC Server ]:[ Website: coming soon ]:[ Status: Offline ]:[I50 Team lf devs, Server coming up soon, mail to excali@rendal.de ]'
[01:18] * Set by Alf|deban on Wed Nov 01 18:29:50

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Hej Pat, Blejs

We had great fun there, the nostalgia was a big part at first but once you were over that, personally realised how good OF really was, to sit on the fence though, horses for courses

I might pop into WoW soon, robin whined on me for 1.5 hour yesterday, eevn said he could lend m the money for a new gfx haha ...

anyway might pop in soon on my lvl 60 hunter and pwn some~

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Well TOA made it more "casual" friendly, with all Mls / Artis that could twist the fights easier, and specially when u got added on.

Btw..

01:18] * Topic is ':[ Instant50-RvR DAoC Server ]:[ Website: coming soon ]:[ Status: Offline ]:[I50 Team lf devs, Server coming up soon, mail to excali@rendal.de ]'
[01:18] * Set by Alf|deban on Wed Nov 01 18:29:50

Yah noticed that to, I could be a dev tbh if ppl listen to my ideas that is ;o...

 

[Icebreaker]

OF was shit. For me as Hib anyway.Running To Emain.........
Don't really know why people think that OF was better then NF.Boring Keeps, Boring Wall Gates.Killing/or get killed by Zergs at AMG, roam to find fg action.
Not much different compared to NF. But in NF you can have the Action much faster and even soloing is far better then in OF.Better Keeps and even the fg vs. fg pimps can freely roam in agramon or any other place their choice.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

OF was shit. For me as Hib anyway.Running To Emain.........
Don't really know why people think that OF was better then NF.Boring Keeps, Boring Wall Gates.Killing/or get killed by Zergs at AMG, roam to find fg action.
Not much different compared to NF. But in NF you can have the Action much faster and even soloing is far better then in OF.Better Keeps and even the fg vs. fg pimps can freely roam in agramon or any other place their choice.

1) As I see it MMO's can't function and have that "fast" RvR with little to none death penality.
2) NF design is very flawed, not very wll thought out and with poor chokepoints, like it or not the milgates in OF might not been prfect ( far from in fact ) but alot better thent he bridges we got now wich promotes easymode casters in the greatest of ways.
3) I do not know about you or others but I Prefered the OF keeps due to the stratigic advantage for defenders and possibility to fight outside the keep rather then lagging on the keep walls or at the gate having oil dumped at you
4) Fg vs Fg had its prime during SI/intro of ToA in OF zones, that got to count for something.
5) As I see it OF housed more playstyles, you could zerg if you wanted but the frontiers was made out so that it would become annoying to move around with 10 fg on stick hassling FGs/ solos. In NF the fights seemed to be very focused on bridge areas and keeps where it in fact is very profitable to have those 10 fg in your tail, and moving short distances between keep and bridge.

Also as I been circling around before in this thread, the fact some ppl disliked OF so much might been due to that they "sucked" back then and now they do not "suck", since their chars developted slower then the "top notch guys" and only later "peaked". If you catch my drift.

 

[Andrilyn]

5) As I see it OF housed more playstyles, you could zerg if you wanted but the frontiers was made out so that it would become annoying to move around with 10 fg on stick hassling FGs/ solos. In NF the fights seemed to be very focused on bridge areas and keeps where it in fact is very profitable to have those 10 fg in your tail, and moving short distances between keep and bridge.

I disagree, in OF you had to go out of your PK and through a Milegate, no matter if you were solo, duo or fg+ you had to go through there and I can count the times on 1 hand I could go through the Milegate or even reach it when I was solo.
In NF you have much much more choices, you can see when a keep is under siege and if you like keep sieges you can actually join them before the keep gets taken because of no warning, you can solo in certain area's without being forced through a bottleneck, you can 8v8 in peace.
Basically OF (on Alb Prydwen) was like: Wait on the APK till you got enough people to run over the 3fg+ mids patrolling AMG<->APK then it was just zerging everywhere.

In NF there something to do for all playing styles and in OF you were forced to play in a certain way (which imo sucked) not to mention in OF you HAD to go through one solid bottleneck and in NF you basically don't have any bottlenecks (can just go around bridges if you want).
I am not saying NF is the best thing since sliced bread but it sure beat the hell out of what OF ever was it's just that like with all nostalgic memories people always remember the nice things not the crap they had to deal with.

 

[Icebreaker]

1) 2) 3) 4) 5)

2) In OF there was Emain and the stupid Milegates. No way to avoid that to go through.The rest was just a boring zone to run arround.

3) Of Keeps had 2 (some 3) Doors and poor Walls. Boring Keeps and there were hardly any battles outside.The battles in nf keeps are far more interesting.All the fights going on while on the inner keep. People still holding parts of the wall while fighting the attackers who are inside etc and so on.Or Relic Raids in OF.Either you are fast enough to grab one before the Defenders come or you die. That was all...

4)And only fgs.The Zerg was just there to get owned at amg,mmg or alb portal keep.

5) Thats just wrong. There was only the fg action and some solo stuff.Today its far better. Even the zerg can compete.

 

[blejs]

Emain wasnt only zone where ppl could pvp u know, solo/duos/trios etc went more to Odins. And also remember it was less respect to one and other back then , then it is today. Today ppl use irc etc more, so could stear up diffrent rvr zones fg rvr / solo+other zone.

And also remember we have horses today, so it wouldnt be that bad going to say emain if u where hibbie now.

Emain prydwen wasnt that good cause it wasnt so many active hibs, so it often had either mids camping amg or albs camping mmg. If hibbis would pvped more they would kill the campers from the back.

 

[Brohanith]

gifv back SotL times... 2fg on stick ftw :touch:

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

Seriously I'm really starting to believe my own half serious theory about ppl not liking OF b/c they were cannonfodder at the time, and or couldn't and evolve their chars at the same pace as others.

I so do not understand that you can argue that even one thing in NF is better then in OF, I just do not see any of it

 

[Icebreaker]

Seriously I'm really starting to believe my own half serious theory about ppl not liking OF b/c they were cannonfodder at the time, and or couldn't and evolve their chars at the same pace as others.

I so do not understand that you can argue that even one thing in NF is better then in OF, I just do not see any of it

I made most of my Rps in OF with old RA's and no toa, sometimes 300-500 k a week in opted Groups like CF, DH, Llaw,Vengeance etc.Heroes were far better back then and more wanted then in NF but still i don't want this back because NF offers much more then OF.

I think your theory is just strange.

 

[Sneakers|Matriarch]

I made most of my Rps in OF with old RA's and no toa, sometimes 300-500 k a week in opted Groups like CF, DH, Llaw,Vengeance etc.Heroes were far better back then and more wanted then in NF but still i don't want this back because NF offers much more then OF.

I think your theory is just strange.

Wasn't exactely talking about you in specific. I did play Hib excal aswell for several years. I also played some year(s) on Alb prydwen.

Just it seems like alot of people indirectly says they were no good in OF and thats why NF is better.
Personally I think the NF RvR scenary is very bad and almost on the verdge of beeing a total fuckup. The new implemented classes along with NF where totally rubbish and not called for. The new siege system is dull, repetative and it its blunt, and not accurate in the terms of hitting the fun parts about a siege.

What I think made alot of people leave was that they failed with NF as RvR scenary, it just do not work well due to design flaws. New items, skills and classes changed the damage vs survivability scale. They have done this in alot of MMO's and the result is always the same, lots of people leave. I was shown some statistics a while ago and you can see a clear ( actually huge ) dip in playerbase just when ToA and NF went live. [iirc it was both US and Euro servers combined statistics, and also showed other games in the same graf, so you could ruleout that it was not only other games that stole population].
Anyway, guess some like the NF and all what it brings. For me it seems like over all people liked OF better, I mean the population is low world-wide and I guess the people that enjoyed it stayed and the ones who didn't left.

As with everything yuo have diffrent preferences and likings, I personally just can't understand what people lik about NF. I just can not

 

[blejs]

Well i wouldnt dislike if new frontiers was still around just modified.

First of all
Remove Mls
Remove Artis
Change keep system to OF keep system, just silly the amount of ppl needing for a keep raid now.

Tho abit messy, cause i insta ports aint always so bad. JUST its sucks that ppl can defend asap, with old frontiers ppl could go for keeps, while others roamed to take incomming defenders. Same about relic system, old was so much more fun.

But i can understand why solo ppl etc dislike OF comparing to NF.

I remember someone told me this suggestion to avoid ppl for camping the milegates some.

It would be to make the stairs in OF to the other side instaid, that would mean if u alb comming to amg say in odins, u can jump over the wall. Tho then u might get hit by some archer instaid, but wouldnt be as easy to PA while going through the gate atleast


I would still say perfect server would be something like this.

Old frontiers
Agramon still there just entrance points would be changed.
Still mounts
Toa stats like castspeed and others + cap increases still avalible.
NO MLS (except fop, and MAYBE cure nearsight, disease thing)
NO ARTIS

Old keep system, then it actually was fun to try grabbing keeps.


Something like that would be perfect on a live server. On freeshards ofc get gear fast, and lvl 50 insta