the leet attitude

[Sendraks]

A classic manifestation of “leet” behaviour is something I’ve seen in Emain quite a few times, running in low RR groups without a FOTM set-up.

1) The FOTM high RR leet group, with a few notable individuals known the community in general. Doesn’t want anyone tagging along near them and doesn’t want to share RPs. Fair enough, its selfish, but I respect that they don’t want us around, even though our gaining extra RPs can only benefit the realm as a whole.

2) Shortly afterwards, our low RR group gets rolled by a high RR middy gank group. Barely seconds before the fight is concluded, the high RR Alb group rolls in and kills the Mids who are just finishing us off. The Alb group then runs off without a word and without bothering to rez.

In effect, what this “leet” group has chosen to do is to effectively use low RR Albs as a decoy almost, to flush out Mids and then zooms in to harvest the RPs. They clearly have never let the low level Alb group out their sight, but are not actually there to help us. They just wait for the fight to start, surprise the Mid/Hib attackers, get the RPs and then clear off without bothering to help.

I’d like to think, being the sort of person who wants to assume most people are basically good, that the arrival “just a few seconds too late” of the other group is one of those sad instances in the game. But when it happens more than once, with such precision timing and the other group doesn’t bother to stop and rez, well its fair to say that something stinks. Being exploited by your realmmates for their own pleasure is pretty darn sick.

That to me is a manifestation of “leet” behaviour which sometimes makes this game an unpleasant place to be. Getting stabbed in the back by the enemy I am prepared to accept, but when your own realm does it to you, just so they can have more RPs and be more “leet” well that’s pretty sad.

 

[Jaem-]

Hmm, some of the stuff said is kinda true, some not.

Just have to keep in mind "Treat others like you want to be treated yourself", but saying this, some people get off on igniting peoples anger.

Have loads to say about this topic, but only 10 minutes until I finish work, as well as the cba factor.

 

[waok`whips]

I think you're looking into this a bit too much.. elitism is present in all games.

If you remove elitism, then you remove a core factor of the game.

It's not a very nice factor, but it evens out the balance in the game, and without elitism, people wouldnt strive to improve groups.

I think the more you play in most games, the better you get, however in DAoC, the more you play the easier it gets.. besides, if you hate the game so much and the people who play it, throw in the towel, its a complete waste of time anyway!

:wub:

 

[Jaem-]

I think most that fit into this catagory, is down to releasing real life frustrations in game, which they bottle up inside day to day, have a couple of friends like this, nicest of chaps but act like complete &%^$ ingame.

 

[legaoniel]

looooool

Draylor leet................. looooooooooool Oh gawd, you've cheered up a dismal thursday evening.......................loooooool

 

[eggy]

It's usually about 2 things. Teen angst, or the basic need to "fit in".

It's quite alarming to see how people change from being really nice to complete dickheads after just changing guild (often into a gank-RvR group). In order for them to feel like they fit into that guild (prove themselves worthy), they have to stomp on everyone else.

Same goes with expressions. It's "fitting in" to use "meights" instead of "mates", and so on and so forth. Here's a newsflash; you're just making a fool out of yourselves.

Most of the so called "l33t" attitude is a basic cry for attention. "Here, look at me, I am someone" - after all, if you can't be loved, it's better to be hated than not recognized at all? Very dominant thinking among insecure people. (even if they'd never admit that)

Then ofcourse there's people's craving for respect. The have seen how good players with high RR got respect among the masses once, and now want to be that person. Thus, they try their hardest to become high RR and hopefully a good player along the way. That includes slagging off other people as much as possible. (after all, their heroes on FH does it?)

What they fail to realize is that those two things on their own doesn't warrant any respect. The ones that truly should be respected are people who care about everyone else in the game, friend or foe; and try hard not to lessen their enjoyment in the game while still having fun themselves. (not ganking the same greys over and over, for instance) If you get high RP and/or become a really good player as well and don't make any fuss about it (Alpha, Pin, Kagato, Rulke, Zoia, Tusk to name a few) - then you'll be respected by many.

Brilliant post.

 

[Kagato]

And what is worse, the leetist attitudes or people who generalise everyone into one catagory and dismiss them as all being the same?

And just because 1 guild has an elite attitude (god I hate abbreviations !) doesn't mean everyone in that guild is like that or that you have to fit in to play with them.

To be quite honest, during my time in an RvR guild with one of the worste reps I never see any attitude or patronising remarks to other players. Playing to win is one thing but I don't see any of this so called attitude.

And yet when in a typical 'middle road' guild all I ever saw was whining and hostility and snide remarks aimed at anyone in an RvR guild or high realm rank 'famous' players.

It swings both ways, call people elitist enough and they may start acting like it in response.

Yes there are people who do act like assholes, but they are not all high realm rank or wearing RvR guild cloaks.

You gain respect through acts and attitude, you gain rps through time spent playing, its not the same thing and in the end the rps are the easier of the two to earn.

Oh and :wub: to Whisperess

 

[Xandax]

And what is worse, the leetist attitudes or people who generalise everyone into one catagory and dismiss them as all being the same?

And just because 1 guild has an elite attitude (god I hate abbreviations !) doesn't mean everyone in that guild is like that or that you have to fit in to play with them.

To be quite honest, during my time in an RvR guild with one of the worste reps I never see any attitude or patronising remarks to other players. Playing to win is one thing but I don't see any of this so called attitude.

And yet when in a typical 'middle road' guild all I ever saw was whining and hostility and snide remarks aimed at anyone in an RvR guild or high realm rank 'famous' players.

It swings both ways, call people elitist enough and they may start acting like it in response.

Yes there are people who do act like assholes, but they are not all high realm rank or wearing RvR guild cloaks.

You gain respect through acts and attitude, you gain rps through time spent playing, its not the same thing and in the end the rps are the easier of the two to earn.

Oh and :wub: to Whisperess

I doubt many (all) people are drawing the parrallel of "RvR guild = leet behavior" constantly. Also - I think there is a huge difference between being an elitist and being "leet", and thus the need for the abbriviation. (somebody can be elitists about his playstyle and still respect other people, whereas somebody that is leet doesn't generally care about the other people, like for instance: "f**k off you n00b, I have more need of this artifact then you!!11!!")
The problem comes when some people from some guild continously and deliberate disrespect other players and leaves common sences somewhere outside the game - then the parrallel will start to be drawn between that guild and such behavoir.
It might be wrong, it might be generalizing - but it is still logical human behaviour.

In my view in a game like this - it is very much up to ones peers to "police" each other. If members of a guild contiouesly and deliberately does their best to annoy, disrespect and on some level grief other players, then in my view some meassure of action should be taken within the guild.
There will always be some people that have to little common sences to actually think of, and respect, other people, but tolerating such behaviour is accepting and condoning it in my view.

 

[rure]

It's quite alarming to see how people change from being really nice to complete dickheads after just changing guild (often into a gank-RvR group). In order for them to feel like they fit into that guild (prove themselves worthy), they have to stomp on everyone else.

It's a known psychological fact that people identify themselves with the groups/communities are a part of, both online and in real life. Hence, they get very confirmation biased, and transfer (in psychology called projection) the bad parts of his/her group on others. And probably some rvr-gank guilds arent very good functioning groups (assuming you can apply group-psychology theories on internet groups), hence much hidden troubles among the group members which they also transfer to other people causing this leet-attitudes.

Same goes with expressions. It's "fitting in" to use "meights" instead of "mates", and so on and so forth. Here's a newsflash; you're just making a fool out of yourselves.

Most of the so called "l33t" attitude is a basic cry for attention. "Here, look at me, I am someone" - after all, if you can't be loved, it's better to be hated than not recognized at all? Very dominant thinking among insecure people. (even if they'd never admit that)

Here you can see sociological similarities to football hooligans (at least swedish hooligans), the persons that fights the most at matches, shows most hate towards the cops, are the younger, more insecure guys. They do this because they think they will get recognized and accepted by older, more experienced hooligans. And why they want this is because what I wrote about earlier. People strongly identifies themselves with the groups they are a part of.

Then ofcourse there's people's craving for respect. The have seen how good players with high RR got respect among the masses once, and now want to be that person. Thus, they try their hardest to become high RR and hopefully a good player along the way. That includes slagging off other people as much as possible. (after all, their heroes on FH does it?)

In Jenny Preece's book about Online communities she states that no psychology study has shown that your "IRL-personality" affects the way you behave on Internet and in communities.

There are also some possible psychoanalytic explanations that can explain flames, anger and leet behaviour. It evolves around that the fact already as a little child you get told not to show anger, etc and when you grow up all this built up anger has to come out. I've read too little about Freud and Miller to know anything about it.

 

[Marc]

Eggy is leet

 

[duact]

rulke just cheat sorry

Off topic:
lol and u dont?
fo elitistic prick!

On topic:

Imo when a person gets bored of the game he finds other ways to entertain himself, for example by humiliating pve noobs or explaining to other ppl how elite he is. And fyi eragrim ur leet urself!

 

[Hawkwind]

sutch h8 m8 don't you think its a bit l8 to st8 that comment? xD

How old are you? After reading your thread on Excal BG (Leirvik) from this morning I think you are are at the top of this posters shit list.

"BB's in BG FoAD!"

You really are a complete idiot. Obviously making up for being a complete nothing in real life!

 

[Krisse]

It's usually about 2 things. Teen angst, or the basic need to "fit in".

It's quite alarming to see how people change from being really nice to complete dickheads after just changing guild (often into a gank-RvR group). In order for them to feel like they fit into that guild (prove themselves worthy), they have to stomp on everyone else.

Same goes with expressions. It's "fitting in" to use "meights" instead of "mates", and so on and so forth. Here's a newsflash; you're just making a fool out of yourselves.

Most of the so called "l33t" attitude is a basic cry for attention. "Here, look at me, I am someone" - after all, if you can't be loved, it's better to be hated than not recognized at all? Very dominant thinking among insecure people. (even if they'd never admit that)

Then ofcourse there's people's craving for respect. The have seen how good players with high RR got respect among the masses once, and now want to be that person. Thus, they try their hardest to become high RR and hopefully a good player along the way. That includes slagging off other people as much as possible. (after all, their heroes on FH does it?)

What they fail to realize is that those two things on their own doesn't warrant any respect. The ones that truly should be respected are people who care about everyone else in the game, friend or foe; and try hard not to lessen their enjoyment in the game while still having fun themselves. (not ganking the same greys over and over, for instance) If you get high RP and/or become a really good player as well and don't make any fuss about it (Alpha, Pin, Kagato, Rulke, Zoia, Tusk to name a few) - then you'll be respected by many.

Very nice post.

 

[[e]]

In Jenny Preece's book about Online communities she states that no psychology study has shown that your "IRL-personality" affects the way you behave on Internet and in communities.

ofc not, sitting safe behind a computer screen you can be a little bitch, as IRL you would get smacked down on your ass, back to reality.

 

[rure]

ofc not, sitting safe behind a computer screen you can be a little bitch, as IRL you would get smacked down on your ass, back to reality.

I just said what she stated, feel free to form a hypothesis, do some research and prove her wrong.

 

[Lethul]

I just said what she stated, feel free to form a hypothesis, do some research and prove her wrong.

hmm, i blame mullet's for everything!

 

[rure]

hmm, i blame mullet's for everything!

d00dz, my mull37 is l337

 

[d0hnut]

Is this aussie's goodbye thread?





@eragrim - Aegrescit medendo

 

[Stekkerdoos]

Am I the only one that gets depressed only by reading ALL this shit ?

If you're not having fun/getting annoyed, just quit. I did (these kind of arguments/experiences being one reason). Try another game, or something else to do. And no, i don't mean "get a life", let's leave that to our "experts". Just remove DAoC from your life, if it gets to you to much.

 

[dual]

This is about one of the funniest posts on fh i've read so far, keep it going

d00dz, my mull37 is l337

Can't even bloody read that..

 

[Ghostly]

You make people feel bad from time to time, with your lame comments and crap. Specially here on FH or IRC. This is something right back at you.

* The bitterness.

:worthy: such self pwnage

 

[Event]

This post is nonsensical.

Assholes are everywhere in life - get over it.

Anyone who gets obsessed by their rps should examine their personality.

fun > rp

Interesting that the original poster lists the exact rr of his characters in his sig.

 

[Trylle^nzi]

Cant you see that dark age of camelot turns you into a person that you dont want to be? Bitter, stuck into a game, which you hate (because there is no skill) and worse of all. You arent moving further with your life. You are stuck, and you cant stop to play. Because if you do stop, you have nothing left, nothing at all...

It was too late for me to figure out that daoc actually changed me as a person. Altho I have an education and all. A few weeks ago I woke up, logged in and thought.. hell no, i've lost a gf, turned into a fucking fat bastard(seriously) due to this addictive game.
Today I am no one, no more in the world wich isn't there; it can be a pretty weird feeling, but fact is that irl > daoc

I can follow you a long way down the road with this leet-thingy, but there's nothing to do about it, even if you make endless amounts of these threads, your identity is hidden in an online-game, therefore you can act just as you like to other ppl. The day where you can actually see the person you're gaming with, live, this leet attitude will, maybe, turn down just a bit.
But that's never gonna happen

 

[eragrim]

This post is nonsensical.

Assholes are everywhere in life - get over it.

Anyone who gets obsessed by their rps should examine their personality.

fun > rp

Interesting that the original poster lists the exact rr of his characters in his sig.

mate, I was speaking of an attitude. This strange rudeness without reason. I did not speak of elite or high rr players in general.

Its actually the second reply I make now trying to explain, that I dislike this certain attitude and not elite players.


Actually my RRs arent something to really brag about either, I dont concider myself a high rr at all. I was proud to have acchieved the stated Realm rank with my hunter back in the days though, but thats another story.


I just find it so hard to understand that people have to act rude without no reason at all, and play a game they hate 14 hours a day and make wtf pwn posts where they dont belong and act cool on a forum for a mmorpg. And I was trying to find a reason for such a behaviour.

 

[Event]

I was trying to find a reason for such a behaviour.

There is a reason m8. In life you always come up against assholes.

Also there is the fact that some people become obsessed by their status inside a pc reality because of a lack of control they have over their real lives.

 

[Marc]

This post is nonsensical.

Assholes are everywhere in life - get over it.

Anyone who gets obsessed by their rps should examine their personality.

fun > rp

Interesting that the original poster lists the exact rr of his characters in his sig.

Difference being, if someone is an asshole to u in real life you can stick one on them. Thats the reason why people online treat others with such contempt, because they can get away with it.

 

[Event]

Just ignore them.

Its a game and if they want to be cock of the dung hill then let them.

 

[Clan Fist]

this post is just to lEEt long to care read all reply's

 

[Culanan]

It's a known psychological fact that people identify themselves with the groups/communities are a part of, both online and in real life. Hence, they get very confirmation biased, and transfer (in psychology called projection) the bad parts of his/her group on others. And probably some rvr-gank guilds arent very good functioning groups (assuming you can apply group-psychology theories on internet groups), hence much hidden troubles among the group members which they also transfer to other people causing this leet-attitudes.



Here you can see sociological similarities to football hooligans (at least swedish hooligans), the persons that fights the most at matches, shows most hate towards the cops, are the younger, more insecure guys. They do this because they think they will get recognized and accepted by older, more experienced hooligans. And why they want this is because what I wrote about earlier. People strongly identifies themselves with the groups they are a part of.



In Jenny Preece's book about Online communities she states that no psychology study has shown that your "IRL-personality" affects the way you behave on Internet and in communities.

There are also some possible psychoanalytic explanations that can explain flames, anger and leet behaviour. It evolves around that the fact already as a little child you get told not to show anger, etc and when you grow up all this built up anger has to come out. I've read too little about Freud and Miller to know anything about it.

I think that's probably about right, there is no one explanation to cover this apparent attitude, I know people who like to be the "bad guy" in online games and who can behave pretty badly but IRL they don't, not because they are afraid of being thumped (other people I know who do behave that badly IRL aren't afraid of a fight) but because that's not the real them, it's a persona, a side of them they vent out in someways perhaps?

Much of the bad attitude tends to come in the form of ingame PMs, so people can hide their really venomous selves from their associates, in my experience I have found this method of attack to be more in keeping with people who really have anger problems but ******dly want to look like good guys. I normally refuse to reply after stating that I refuse to discuss things in that format and then /ignore them if they don't get the point.

It's a large community, lots of different people and different views, find and stick with those you like and just get on with it, it can be frustrating putting up with crap but then it's not hard to shut it out and carry on playing in peace really.

 

[Divinia]

haha the only immature behaviour i found in that gratzthread came from you.. with nice quotes like:

Mate, please post an IRL pic of yourself and show us how much you pwn irl, since you made the choice to live in a computer game