the leet attitude

[eragrim]

I have met many different attitudes among players when playing this game. But what keep bothering me is the "leet attitude", which is something I have never understood. It is one of the strangest things I have ever encountered in my life, and within a human being. There are ofc many players within this game that are "elite" (if you want to call it that) that doesnt match with this attitude at all. But on the other hand, frightning many of our elite gamers in daoc fall into the exact match of this description.

Here comes the description:

* First of all, everything is black or white. Either way you suck or you are leet. There is nothing in between for anything or anyone. That is the wide perspective the "leet attitude" offers.

* Second, you hate the game. These people often say the following things: Omg this game is no skill, omfg mids are so overpowered, all insta, no skill. I hate this game, everything about it sucks.

Here comes the first paradox. You hate the game, and everything about it, and still you play night and day.
Why?

* Excal is no skill, and Prydwen? Lol, full of noobs. You and your fellow "leet" guild members, your group of 8 has tried camlann, you have tried US you have done it all. You got to 50, you did your mls, you did your arties, you rvred. And still, it didnt get better. After a month you are back on your old server, once more whining and moaning about "no skill" and "instas" and how much you really hate the game.

Please answer me, where are the skilled players? Orcanie perhaps? Or do you honestly believe that you are the only skilled player in the world? And once again, why do you play?

* The attitude in game. these people act like the are something. Are inpolite towards others, specially people that are new to the game. they are cocky, in a computer game, because they got more realm points then others. And they know how to solo Jacinas and do Zoark with less then 3 people (just an example).

Tell me please. What have you acomplished? You are sitting behind a computer screen, in a world that doesnt excist with more rps then the average and act like you have acomplished something. What is wrong with you people? And tell me, what the hell have you acomplished?

I thought that this "leet attitude" belong to people at the age of 14 and 17. But no, it does mainly, but surprise. The players with the "leet attitude" are often 20+. Without a job and education, that plays daoc 24/7. And you brag and act like you are someone in a computer game.

oh, I understand, it was easier to be cool behind a computer screen then in real life, its easier when no one sees the true you. am I not awfully close to the truth?


* The bitterness. They are never statisfied with anything, if the group you rvr with loose. You start to flame like a maniac and even logg off on many occasions. And they are hardly ever statisfied with anything.


Cant you see that dark age of camelot turns you into a person that you dont want to be? Bitter, stuck into a game, which you hate (because there is no skill) and worse of all. You arent moving further with your life. You are stuck, and you cant stop to play. Because if you do stop, you have nothing left, nothing at all...



If you fall into this description, think about what you are doing. Your life situation is kinda predictable, not in every case ofcourse, but I really do believe that I am awfully close to the truth here about the leet gamers of daoc.



You make people feel bad from time to time, with your lame comments and crap. Specially here on FH or IRC. This is something right back at you.



Regards

 

[Draylor]

Grats on a utterly clueless whinepost

 

[Aussie]

they know how to solo Jacinas

wow hard, i posted it once on midgard forum, heard it has never been up again since that day xD

 

[Huntingtons]

why do you post this? whats the idea of it?

 

[eragrim]

Basically what triggered me in the first place is how you can make replies like this in a Grats post on the RVR section.


https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=39789

I am sick and tired of the leet attitude and its rudeness. Atleast keep it out of posts where it doesnt belong.


In my opinion, you dont make replies like that. Not in a grats thread.

 

[poky]

While this sure was an ambitious post, it seems to me like you iether did not think to much about this subject before posting, or you have a slightly immature view of the ppl surrounding you..

Now I can only judge from my own experience (of course), but the so called 'leet people' are infact, by your definitions, extremely rare if not inexsistant.. Having said that, it is true that some people play this game for the competition alone (Im one of them), and while this might be repulsive to you, its really none of your buisness.

As far as the whining goes, unexperienced players are just as big whiners as the experienced ones, and they are also the only ones who ever would claim such a clueless thing as saying fg rvr is skillless.

Flame on

 

[Bishibosh]

I agree with you here to be honest... There are obviously people who believe themselves to be the top-dogs of the server, and look down upon everybody else, no matter what that "somebody else" is talking about or doing. The kind of people who make deliberately obscure, pointless or nonsensical posts and hardly ever contribute maturely and/or helpfully in discussions. The kind of people who are just permanently angry with everybody, who will never admit to making a mistake, and never consider playing daoc fun, while trying to ensure that no one else does either.
Immersion into a game world is a great thing, provided that a person doesn't let their fearless dragon-soloing in-game persona to influence their real life ego or their attitude towards other players.

 

[Tallen]

Interesting thread, even more interesting watching the replies come in.

I think you'll find he WANTS to get flamed as it just proves his point.....I think you guys will find this is why he created this thread, if you can't read between the lines here it is in "black or white"

Every whine or flame on this thread just makes the whiner/flamer look rediculous...to those who can read and understand the subtlety (whether intentional or not) anyway

A little more on-topic, i think you'll find the majority of daoc players don't fit the l337 mould described, it's just that 10 whining/flaming eejits get noticed a lot more than 100 players who just go about their business.

I must say I see this a lot more in FPS's than any mmorpg.

 

[eragrim]

Poky, perhaps I did express myself somewhat in the wrong way, or you missunderstood. What I meant was not the "leet" player. I meant this strange attitude, sadly they do very often come as one.

Simply it all comes down to beeing polite, and I cant see why that is so very difficult.


I was very upset when I wrote the post. Bishibosh however did see my point, and expressed himself in a much more elegant and very accurate way. Still focusing on this very same attitude problem.

 

[Maddius]

Alright, I understand yeah there is a "status quo" of all servers, but then again that appiles to most things, fair enough this is annoying at times addmitted, by with out people acting like that, there will be no controversy at would probably make the player intergration a little dull, there has to be something to spark conversation off, a topic that everyone can relate to, and flame, agree, dissagree whatever it's just like an ice breaker, like people have idols people they love to love, you gotta have people you love to hate. Anyways thats my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Draylor]

Basically what triggered me in the first place is how you can make replies like this in a Grats post on the RVR section.

Yeah ok, I can see why that might annoy someone.

So reply to it there, where your reply will make sense and be read by the people your talking about. Making generalisations about it, posting them here out of context and applying them to a far larger group of people achieves nothing: it just makes you appear to be babbling for no reason.

 

[Elewyth]

his post and the following replies only boosts his argument that people seem to think theyre better than anyone else.. well heres a newsflash.. your not.. when the shit hits the fan.. your so called "leet" attitude will get you nothing, personally i have a list of people i refuse to res.. even if they are worth rp's..
sure i may be being petty but when you take an attitude with someone be it on a forum or ingame dont expect them to help you, people have long memories of people who piss them off with stupid comments and remarks.

 

[[NO]Subedai]

I can see your point. Xplo's comments in that post were retarted and cruel. however not all the high rr gank grp people are losers irl with no life etc. yes i bet a good amount of em are (like 25% or summin) but most are normal people, with perhaps a little more ambition/desire to be good. i think ull find that they dont play this game a hell of alot more than alot of the non 'leet' people. Just that they use their time more efficently in consturcting rvr grps. ye some of these people are pricks irl who are perhaps compensating for summin in daoc, and these piss me off. But its unfair labelling who guilds as pricks just cuz they are rvr.

 

[Meza]

i agree with all what u said ( wrote ), but there are more to this that just that :eek2:



there is also the players that think they are something by killing low lvls over and over and over again ( in DF and low lvl xp spots in frontiers

there is nothing wrong in killing him once but chaining a low lvl over and over again makes no sense.. am i right ?

the section about Camlann.... well.. 90% on camlanns players got the leet attitude.... I know cuz ive played there and ive been one too.. I got 3 lvl 50s and 6 lvl 40+ so ive played there for a while ( about 2 years ) and i know alot of people there.. some are very nice, some are not....

leet attitude people got no life ?

well ive been one of those leet attitude people but still I have a lovely GF with whom I son with, and we have a nice place to live... if u call that "no life" well then I have no life

 

[Ahlgard]

Hehe! What a great thread imo. Sensetive business here. The rancid attitude in online games! Since I started playing Daoc I have been amazed by the huge amount of idiots that play online games. Ofc, there are alot of ppl in Daoc and on this forum that are very nice folk. Mature, relaxed and have the ability to discuss. But there is also a great amount of ppl who actually are complete idiots. At least how they appear in these enviroments and in game. I dont know how they are in their everyday life outside their computers and I actually dont wanna know. Scary thought
But there is a very agressive attitude among some online gamers. Ppl trying to be cool in a game (how cool is that btw?) with the latest haxxor nerd online language and their constant fear of roleplayers. RPphobic. Isnt Daoc a RPG after all? Could it be that some ppl become immature and aggressive by living inside a game? Or are some just stupid in general? Perhaps some are just whining kids? Its an interesting subject. Trying hard to have a cool and arrogant attitude in a game. But why? Its amazing imo.

Cheers!

Make love, make hate, make war!

 

[kirennia]

Okay, i'd firstly like to point out that I do agree with you that not replying to messages in game etc can be annoying, I really have to disagree about the comment as a whole that most of these people are the highest RR people. The reason there are a lot more posts on here for example by the idiots with high RR instead of the idiots without that, is simply because they do have something to boast about in game.

Throughout my time in DAoC, I've had very few problems with high RR people apart from a couple of misunderstandings which have been sorted at a later date. However, the number of arrogant people I've talked to at low RR or even non-50s is much much higher. My theory is that they are desperately trying to get to a high RR status etc NOW and so ignore people who aren't going to be of any use to them along the way. Those who have already made it have no real reason to ignore people unless they're spamming 'group me NOW plz' or something.

I've noticed a lot of hatred towards many guilds in particular in albion because they have tried to keep themselves to themselves and have started guild groups instead of grouping randoms and leaving their guild on the sideline. These are usually from people who expect others to pwrlvl them up so they can be at the same level they have seen those above them at but surely isn't that the selfish request? To ask those who have worked hard and played a long while to give the exact same reward they have acheived in RR/lvl etc to someone who they don't know and has never helped them back.

Well I always res when people need it as long as it's not going to kill my group; throughout the early days on salisbury plains, teapots, the barrows, all over I've helped people I don't know, pwrlvled, ressed, given away items for free etc. It's probably because of this that I've not had problems with anyone and after playing for 2 1/2 years I can honestly say I don't have any enemies in albion (i don't think ).

About the point saying 'it's only a game, what have you really acheived', well what does any hobby acheive? Happiness! If its an issue about lack of money and not having a very good job, isn't that a very materialistic way of looking at things? I'd much rather be doing something I enjoy then making millions doing something I hate.

All this said though, people who don't enjoy it and are still playing, I agree should quit cause it's just feeding an addiction which as people have already said, it's a downward spiral to nowhere.

Probably missed some crucial point I was gonna make but nmind

 

[eragrim]

Yeah ok, I can see why that might annoy someone.

So reply to it there, where your reply will make sense and be read by the people your talking about. Making generalisations about it, posting them here out of context and applying them to a far larger group of people achieves nothing: it just makes you appear to be babbling for no reason.

Draylor, fantastic. You manage to miss out on everything, not once, but twice. Grats.

This thread is about an attitude, not mainly about the persons making those replies, thats why it is on the general section of this forum. This is a huge problem and we are mainly discussing what might be behind this way of acting in a computer game. If you scroll up and read, nothing about those persons in the grats thread is mentioned in the original post . But then you had to come with your "grats on a utterly clueless bla bla". And then I gave you a good example of what I mean and what triggered me, and you managed to give me another one by your fantastic reply.

On the other hand, whats the matter mate? Did I hit a senstive spot?

:touch:

 

[[NO]Subedai]

Draylor is wannabe leet!

thats one section of people u missed out!

 

[Whisperess]

It's usually about 2 things. Teen angst, or the basic need to "fit in".

It's quite alarming to see how people change from being really nice to complete dickheads after just changing guild (often into a gank-RvR group). In order for them to feel like they fit into that guild (prove themselves worthy), they have to stomp on everyone else.

Same goes with expressions. It's "fitting in" to use "meights" instead of "mates", and so on and so forth. Here's a newsflash; you're just making a fool out of yourselves.

Most of the so called "l33t" attitude is a basic cry for attention. "Here, look at me, I am someone" - after all, if you can't be loved, it's better to be hated than not recognized at all? Very dominant thinking among insecure people. (even if they'd never admit that)

Then ofcourse there's people's craving for respect. The have seen how good players with high RR got respect among the masses once, and now want to be that person. Thus, they try their hardest to become high RR and hopefully a good player along the way. That includes slagging off other people as much as possible. (after all, their heroes on FH does it?)

What they fail to realize is that those two things on their own doesn't warrant any respect. The ones that truly should be respected are people who care about everyone else in the game, friend or foe; and try hard not to lessen their enjoyment in the game while still having fun themselves. (not ganking the same greys over and over, for instance) If you get high RP and/or become a really good player as well and don't make any fuss about it (Alpha, Pin, Kagato, Rulke, Zoia, Tusk to name a few) - then you'll be respected by many.

 

[Xandax]

I don't think that there are many idiots in this game to be honest. I just think that they are often more vocal and visible, which gives the impression that the game is filled with such people.

I am often amazed at the attitude and behaviour of some of the people in this game, both in-game and on FH, but I usually just brush it away with the fact that people that behave like that are most likely sad real life people.
But I still wonder why people want to disrespect other people so massively as some do.

 

[kirennia]

It's quite alarming to see how people change from being really nice to complete dickheads after just changing guild (often into a gank-RvR group). In order for them to feel like they fit into that guild (prove themselves worthy), they have to stomp on everyone else.

Same goes with expressions. It's "fitting in" to use "meights" instead of "mates", and so on and so forth. Here's a newsflash; you're just making a fool out of yourselves.

Is so true, have noticed that of quite a few new people into RvR guilds but they soon realise that RvR guild groups ( in alb at least) don't speak like that at all. If anything, they take the piss out of people who do

 

[Draylor]

Draylor, fantastic. You manage to miss out on everything, not once, but twice. Grats.

Thanks

If you dont like someones attitude: ignore them. Its not difficult, and achieves alot more than pointless whine threads like this which very rarely achieve anything at all.

And Subedai: I couldnt be any less 'leet' if I tried

 

[Parlain]

I have met many different attitudes among players when playing this game. But what keep bothering me is the "leet attitude", which is something I have never understood. It is one of the strangest things I have ever encountered in my life, and within a human being. There are ofc many players within this game that are "elite" (if you want to call it that) that doesnt match with this attitude at all. But on the other hand, frightning many of our elite gamers in daoc fall into the exact match of this description.

Here comes the description:

* First of all, everything is black or white. Either way you suck or you are leet. There is nothing in between for anything or anyone. That is the wide perspective the "leet attitude" offers.

* Second, you hate the game. These people often say the following things: Omg this game is no skill, omfg mids are so overpowered, all insta, no skill. I hate this game, everything about it sucks.

Here comes the first paradox. You hate the game, and everything about it, and still you play night and day.
Why?

* Excal is no skill, and Prydwen? Lol, full of noobs. You and your fellow "leet" guild members, your group of 8 has tried camlann, you have tried US you have done it all. You got to 50, you did your mls, you did your arties, you rvred. And still, it didnt get better. After a month you are back on your old server, once more whining and moaning about "no skill" and "instas" and how much you really hate the game.

Please answer me, where are the skilled players? Orcanie perhaps? Or do you honestly believe that you are the only skilled player in the world? And once again, why do you play?

* The attitude in game. these people act like the are something. Are inpolite towards others, specially people that are new to the game. they are cocky, in a computer game, because they got more realm points then others. And they know how to solo Jacinas and do Zoark with less then 3 people (just an example).

Tell me please. What have you acomplished? You are sitting behind a computer screen, in a world that doesnt excist with more rps then the average and act like you have acomplished something. What is wrong with you people? And tell me, what the hell have you acomplished?

I thought that this "leet attitude" belong to people at the age of 14 and 17. But no, it does mainly, but surprise. The players with the "leet attitude" are often 20+. Without a job and education, that plays daoc 24/7. And you brag and act like you are someone in a computer game.

oh, I understand, it was easier to be cool behind a computer screen then in real life, its easier when no one sees the true you. am I not awfully close to the truth?


* The bitterness. They are never statisfied with anything, if the group you rvr with loose. You start to flame like a maniac and even logg off on many occasions. And they are hardly ever statisfied with anything.


Cant you see that dark age of camelot turns you into a person that you dont want to be? Bitter, stuck into a game, which you hate (because there is no skill) and worse of all. You arent moving further with your life. You are stuck, and you cant stop to play. Because if you do stop, you have nothing left, nothing at all...



If you fall into this description, think about what you are doing. Your life situation is kinda predictable, not in every case ofcourse, but I really do believe that I am awfully close to the truth here about the leet gamers of daoc.



You make people feel bad from time to time, with your lame comments and crap. Specially here on FH or IRC. This is something right back at you.



Regards

I usually wouldn't replay to something like this but hey, I've got some free time at work.

Couple of points

1) By making this post you are givingthe people who fit into your "leet" category a warm fuzzy feeling inside; they have gotten to you enough to make you react and snap out; thus creating another deabte (read:whine) about leet vs non-leet that has been raging since the dawn of time. In short- you posting just makes them feel more "leet"

2) leet != High RR, leet != knowledge leet != being in either an RvR focused guild or an 8-man "gank squad" as you are trying to implictly imply; people have many reasons for why they want to spend what is admittedly stupid amounts of time in game racking up electronic points, or learning how to do things efficiently and what may cause them to have a "cocky" and/or "impolite" attitude is that by the newer players not knowing how to act/react/play in a certain way affects their own playing experience (think relic or pve raids where people get lost because they haven't bothered to download maps or follow instructions, or your group gets killed by someone not understanding encounters). I personally don't condone it but I understand why tempers get frayed

3) Your paragraph on accomplishment is rather contradicting considering you are reacting to comments made on a post trying to congratulate a friend (or family member) for amassing RPs and you yourself seem to proudly display your own RR in your signature; go figure

4) People are allowing thier own freedom of opinion - whether someone is well regarded for either skill, or leadership or friendlyness is all a matter of opinion and posting on any public forum is just begging for an opinion, good or bad. In my own case as long as I have fun with people who's company I enjoy, these days with I couldn't care less what other people think - the longer you exist in a mmorpg world, the thicker the skin to tend to have; my suggestion would be not to react to flamebait and just go on have the fun I assume you were having before; if you wern't having fun, find a new hobby

Various people get branded "leet" at various stages, sometimes it's a valid distinction, most of the time it's by people who have a large chip on their shoulder.

P.S.

Thanks

If you dont like someones attitude: ignore them. Its not difficult, and achieves alot more than pointless whine threads like this which very rarely achieve anything at all.

And Subedai: I couldnt be any less 'leet' if I tried

Dray doesn't need to be leet, he spends all his time counting his glod anyway

 

[Xplo]

sutch h8 m8 don't you think its a bit l8 to st8 that comment? xD

 

[Huntingtons]

if you devoted to rvr, and play with people who devote their time to pve, thus not caring alot about rvr, of course you get pissed. i'd get that too ;o

 

[Marc]

It's usually about 2 things. Teen angst, or the basic need to "fit in".

It's quite alarming to see how people change from being really nice to complete dickheads after just changing guild (often into a gank-RvR group). In order for them to feel like they fit into that guild (prove themselves worthy), they have to stomp on everyone else.

Same goes with expressions. It's "fitting in" to use "meights" instead of "mates", and so on and so forth. Here's a newsflash; you're just making a fool out of yourselves.

Most of the so called "l33t" attitude is a basic cry for attention. "Here, look at me, I am someone" - after all, if you can't be loved, it's better to be hated than not recognized at all? Very dominant thinking among insecure people. (even if they'd never admit that)

Then ofcourse there's people's craving for respect. The have seen how good players with high RR got respect among the masses once, and now want to be that person. Thus, they try their hardest to become high RR and hopefully a good player along the way. That includes slagging off other people as much as possible. (after all, their heroes on FH does it?)

What they fail to realize is that those two things on their own doesn't warrant any respect. The ones that truly should be respected are people who care about everyone else in the game, friend or foe; and try hard not to lessen their enjoyment in the game while still having fun themselves. (not ganking the same greys over and over, for instance) If you get high RP and/or become a really good player as well and don't make any fuss about it (Alpha, Pin, Kagato, Rulke, Zoia, Tusk to name a few) - then you'll be respected by many.

Absolutely spot on post.

 

[Z^^]

It's usually about 2 things. Teen angst, or the basic need to "fit in".

It's quite alarming to see how people change from being really nice to complete dickheads after just changing guild (often into a gank-RvR group). In order for them to feel like they fit into that guild (prove themselves worthy), they have to stomp on everyone else.

Same goes with expressions. It's "fitting in" to use "meights" instead of "mates", and so on and so forth. Here's a newsflash; you're just making a fool out of yourselves.

Most of the so called "l33t" attitude is a basic cry for attention. "Here, look at me, I am someone" - after all, if you can't be loved, it's better to be hated than not recognized at all? Very dominant thinking among insecure people. (even if they'd never admit that)

Then ofcourse there's people's craving for respect. The have seen how good players with high RR got respect among the masses once, and now want to be that person. Thus, they try their hardest to become high RR and hopefully a good player along the way. That includes slagging off other people as much as possible. (after all, their heroes on FH does it?)

What they fail to realize is that those two things on their own doesn't warrant any respect. The ones that truly should be respected are people who care about everyone else in the game, friend or foe; and try hard not to lessen their enjoyment in the game while still having fun themselves. (not ganking the same greys over and over, for instance) If you get high RP and/or become a really good player as well and don't make any fuss about it (Alpha, Pin, Kagato, Rulke, Zoia, Tusk to name a few) - then you'll be respected by many.

rulke just cheat sorry

 

[RaiztliN]

Tell me please. What have you acomplished? You are sitting behind a computer screen, in a world that doesnt excist with more rps then the average and act like you have acomplished something. What is wrong with you people? And tell me, what the hell have you acomplished?

They acomplished getting more rps, knowing how to solo artis, or doing them with few ppl, u just said it ..

 

[Jayce]

If you dont like someones attitude: ignore them. Its not difficult, and achieves alot more than pointless whine threads like this which very rarely achieve anything at all.

Don't mean to pick on you Draylor, just this comment.

Daoc is a community and if any one person feels a certain 'attitude' is having a derogatory effect on the comunity then I (personally) feel that person shouldn't ignore and should bring it up for discussion. The reason for this is that if it is presented in a professional manner and not just someone sounding off because they are angry then you will see many posts from people who do not normally post. The effect this can have depends on the replys, but for example, if most people agree that said 'attitude' is wrong then the people who 'jump on the band wagon' or follow 'thier peers' will calm down and the 'attitude' will lesson, if only for a period of time.

I am refferring to the 'attitude' the original poster talks about but this could be applied to anything that is potentially getting out of hand in a community.

Communism is an example that could be used for this. At its base, with a truly non selfish group of people in control Comunism can be a good thing, however when someone in power starts to get greedy things start to go wrong, but as its one person and it isnt having a huge effect it is ignored. Someone else seems that first person get away with it and then also does it, then someone else, then someone else. Also new people gaining ranks of power see that the guys above them behave 'this' way and mimic that because if it works for them then it works for the new guys. The community ignores it and eventually it gets out of hand then someone speaks out and is silenced, then someone else cant take it any more and speaks out until evenutally there is a split in the community. Revolution maybe, call it what you will but the results are similar.

Now only the concept applies to daoc because I cant see there being wars started irl over daoc, but you never know !!

The point is when something starts to get out of hand, when many more people then the 'orignals' are treating other people like shit, treating newbies like shit, treating realm mates like shit, it is up to the community to do something about it and I believe this constitutes as someone trying to do something about an 'attitude' that is getting steadily worse in this little community.

I dont think the true 'l33t' people are not the ones who have this shitty 'l33t' 'attitude', rather its the ones trying to be 'l33t' to follow there footsteps.

One last thing, what would have happened if europe ignored the germans those 65 years ago ?

 

[Painbringer]

agree 100% with eragrim, been playing this game for nearly 3 years now and there are alot of arrogant tossers that look down on other players just because they don't play as much as they do, or take the game as seriously as they do or they don't spec how they want them to spec and just laugh at them for being different, not fotm. i'm a strong believer that every spec is viable, but i also learnt that you can't change these ppls attitudes, they will always be this way, my tip is to just ignore them m8, get on with your life as they probably don't have one