The Justice Department!!

[Ezteq]

O.k saturday night me and bf thought would nip to supermarket next door to get some dinner, leave front door and Oh Bugger!! some lovely person has nicked my bike..... which was chained to the drain pipe outside the kitchen window, they didnt bother to try pick the lock or anything clever they just ripped pipe down and scarpered with my push bike, which was a pressy from my mum i add. So me being a wee bit pissed off went to thinking what i'd do if i caught the little shite who did it.

Thinking back a few days to the school teacher who went downstairs in the night to investigate noises in his house and was stabbed to death while his wife and small kids were sleeping in their beds, i cant help thinking things are seriously wrong in this country.

The teacher was killed by his attacker, if however he'd grabbed a golf club before he went down to see what noise was and happened upon the intruder and injured or killed the tresspasser HE would be in serious shit.

Now amid all this rambling is a serious point, if someone was to invade your home putting you and your family at risk what would you do?? in america anyone who breaks in to your home is fair game you can kill to protect yourself and your property, while i dont really agree with killing someone for nicking my push bike (not kill them, but boy would i have loved to have caught them!!) i do strongly agree that if some one breaks in to your home, threatening your personal safety (or that or family) you should be able to defend yourself to whatever means you see fit, Before the flamers leap on me i do not mean chaining the sod up and torturing them (though this is understandable in some cases) i just mean using self defence, armed if need be in order to prevent yourself becoming worm food, this is the problem in UK if you defend yourself unarmed and get killed well you die and thats the end of that chapter, if you defend yourself with a weapon you automatically go up for charges.

If you found an intruder what would you do?

Me personally i would nail the sucker and then make as much noise to media as possible to say "yes damn right i confronted this tresspasser in my home , i was armed and i defended myself" buggered if im going to have some scabby junky mooching about in my house. I would own up and be proud that i did so.....

what would you do?

 

[Cylian]

anyone who breaks in to your home is fair game you can kill to protect yourself and your property

think unless there's evidence for unnecessary murder of the trespasser, like he was running off and you shot him in the back, you wouldn't get charged that hard by court. Though I'm not too familiar with UK law.
Think you'd get something like 'as long as we don't see you again at this court, you won't go to jail', dunno how it's called in english (prooving time?).

Doubt that any country will put people into jail for defending themselves against someone breaking into their home.

 

[Morchaoron]

i wouldnt take the risking of telling him "hey wtf are you doing here", i have a variety of 'weapons' here, so if i would ever catch a intruder in my house i would simply rush into the room and and put a few holes in him with a sabre, or wait around the corner and smash his skull with a baseball bat...

maybe he's there to kill me, how do i know? at least i wouldnt take the risk of finding out...

and i guess i would just dump the body in a forest here, plenty of em around (plenty of bodies found there with no suspects either, so it shoulnt be a problem)
or just go to the police if he did have a weapon in his hand...


on the other hand, its quite impossible to get in my house so i guess i will never have to defend it, but its still a good idea to think about it and take the appropriate precautions (store items that would be good at harming people at convienient places)

(no i dont like harming people but have a very very short temper when it comes to people messing with my health or my stuff)

 

[Escape]

If someone hears noises in his house, late at night and he goes down to investigate, confronts a burgular and in the 'heat of the moment' ends up killing him, I see no problem with it...

The burgular might've been some newb working on his first house... he's a nice guy really, just wants some cash to buy his kids christmas present. Or, it could be a real psycho out for blood, and he's not in a stabbing mood... no, he wants to tie up his victim take it real slow.

The house owner doesn't have time to assess the burgular's intention, he needs to act. Obviously the case with the Farmer comes to mind(2 kids broke into his house and he shot them, killing a 14(?)yr old with his shotgun. The controversy was he shot the kid in the back). It might be that the boy was running away from him when he took the shot, but those kids learnt their lesson(the one who lived anyway) and they won't be breaking into farm houses anytime soon. Old justice, the way it should be!

 

[Saggy]

I live alone and I dont have any "self-protection sense" so I would probably ask what the burgular is doing. However, if I have family/friends/dog visiting me and I feel that they are threatened I wouldn't hesitate using my shotgun to protect them - In the other hand if my family/friend/dog gets killed because of stealing stuff I wouldn't hesitate to grab my shotgun for revenge Oo The worst scenario would be me killing the intruder, getting condemned to imprisonment and not being able to do anything when someone is hurting my family/friends/dog for revenge oO

Do what you feel is right and forget the laws - jails are 1 star hotels these days anyway

 

[Hawkwind]

"Obviously the case with the Farmer comes to mind(2 kids broke into his house and he shot them, killing a 14(?)yr old with his shotgun. The controversy was he shot the kid in the back"

He shot the kid in the back once, who then started to crawl away he went up and shot him again killing him. Slightly OTT. Still he did us all a favour, one less thieving gypsy bastard Detest pikeys > chavs.

Still, you should have a right to defend your home and property. If the burglar has a knife then he is definitely fair game with whatever weapon you have available. Except possibly a gun.

If you live alone in a city I would definitely advise getting an alarm system with Panic Alarm buttons around the house. Or get a dog with a loud bark. Our little Choc Lab used to sound like the hound of the baskervilles whenever she saw or heard someone. Sure she could wake the dead

When it comes to the law on thieves you have to respect Sharia Law in the Islamic world. Cut their bloody hands off. Don't agree with most of it just some of it. After first checking DNA results or how big their caravan is. Just to make sure you have the right person. Obviously don't

away

 

[Job]

Probably the most emotive subject on the books, the law is afraid to condone it incase we fall slowly into mob revenge culture.
You can't ignore it, the case of Tony Martin to which you refer, split the country in two...hand wringing chin strokers on on side and everyone else on the other, the reality as in everything is different very very few burgulars kill the householder, but it only takes 1 incident too have us all reaching for carving knife.
The biggest killer of people under 30 is traffic accidents, but all we do is moan about the police setting up speed cameras.

What we need is minimum sentencing, 10 years in jail, for first offence, no plea bargaining, no parole, no admitting to a lesser offence all these things are undermining societys trust in the justice system, all brought about by highly paid, socially inept, university mollicoddled cretins....sorry lawyers I mean, first against the wall when the revolution comes, utter shisters every last jack one of them.

 

[Cylian]

or Swiss style ... guns for everyone (who has a clean criminal record)!

think they got the lowest crime rate in the EU.

but I guess in any other country it'd go down to some serious manslaughtering if guns were almost freely available.

 

[Iceforge]

I see the motive for the complaint stated by you Ezteg, and I would say defending yourself up to the degree of which you are violated (if he have a knife and you hit him with a frying pan, fair game, down the bugger go, if he die of it, shit happens, who gives a fuck?)

Some are talking like they are wanting guns to be legal for self-defense etc. which I fell is horrible, really.

These stats are enough for me to know not to want legal guns:

People killed each year by gunfire:

UK: 64
USA: 11.212 (was around there, if someone have newer stats or more accurate, fell free to inform me)

But, if you are defending yourself with something that if around and legal (noise in the living-room, you pick up knife in kitchen, see something bright in the hands of bugglar (dont know what tho) and stab him down to avoid personal harm, then seriously, why should you be punished, even if it shows out he was just putting something shiny into his bag? YOU COULD NOT KNOW YOU WHERE NOT IN HARMS WAY, thats how I see it, but well, no guns, mmmkay?)

 

[Cyfr]

is that 11.212 or 11,212?

 

[Lakih]

is that 11.212 or 11,212?

Think dumbass :wub:


Anyway, if someone broke into my appartment at night i would probobly go crazy on their ass and ask questions when they wake up chained to my balcony (3rd floor) and the police on the way...

 

[Tasslehoff]

If anyone broke into my house I´d feel sorry for them. Nothing to steal here, plus we have swords, spears and axes in every room

They are not that sharp though... If you hit em really hard I bet it would hurt like hell

Plus I like to think I would be a mean f*cker and hit them in the gonads

 

[Morchaoron]

If anyone broke into my house I´d feel sorry for them. Nothing to steal here, plus we have swords, spears and axes in every room

well but the intruder can also take one of them then...

 

[Pippic]

People killed each year by gunfire:

UK: 64
USA: 11.212

UK population 58,789,194

US population 222,411,653

so your statistics are rly showing the wrong picture here. sure usa will still come out on top if u take population into the calculation but it wont be by as much as your figgures show

 

[Pippic]

oh and thoose population figgures might be kinda outdated, cant rly trust google

 

[Dillinja]

It's about right. 58.6 million according to the EU website.

 

[Cylian]

then it'd be

UK: 64
USA : 2966 (roughly)

just about 46 times ahead

 

[Urme the Legend]

UK population 58,789,194

US population 222,411,653

so your statistics are rly showing the wrong picture here. sure usa will still come out on top if u take population into the calculation but it wont be by as much as your figgures show

So US got 4 time the population as UK.. just divide the US numbers with 4.

UK: 64
US 11,212/4 = ~2278 ..

Still that's a big difference.

 

[Pippic]

So US got 4 time the population as UK.. just divide the US numbers with 4.

UK: 64
US 11,212/4 = ~2278 ..

Still that's a big difference.

yeah it is a big diff, i just dont like lying statistics

 

[Saggy]

These stats are enough for me to know not to want legal guns:

People killed each year by gunfire:

UK: 64
USA: 11.212 (was around there, if someone have newer stats or more accurate, fell free to inform me)

"Guns dont kill people, people do"

- Canada: Population ~27mil, 7.4mil guns (registered) and 3.3mil of people has gun licence (12% of citizens) and yet "only" ~100 people gets killed by gunfire there.

-Great-Britain: Population ~58mil, 2mil guns (registered) and <1mil of people has gun licence (<2% of citizens) and "only" ~70 people gets killed by gunfire there.

-Norway: Population ~4mil, 720 000 guns registered and >500 000 guns unregistered, no idea how many people gets killed by gunfire there

Sure, none of the above countries has as free gun-culture as in the USA but the amount of guns in Canada is rather huge. Watch Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" if you are interested in why so many people gets killed by gunfire in the USA Only defence Yanks have for it is their "violent history" Oo Oh, I'm against free firearms certificate for self-protection too

When it comes to protecting yourself against murgular gun is probably the only way to do it - the murgular (if s/he is there to hurt you) will most likely be superior on using knife/baseballbat compared to you and if s/he is only interested in your items why bother? Items are just items and you can only blame yourself if you dont have insurance

 

[Job]

Items are just items and you can only blame yourself if you dont have insurance

AAARRRRGGHHH!!! I hate that statement, here we go again

It's YOUR fault for not insuring/locking up your property.


How long before some poor sod leaves his keys in his car, some fucknut steals it and crashes into a family of 5 killing them all and himself, and the relatives come looking to sue him for not securing his car.

It will happen in this ever increasing blame culture, wouldn't be suprised if it's happened allready.
You can be sued by a burgular if he injures himself in your property and they can prove it was your negligence, loose roof tiles/stair carpet etc.

The world has gone fookin loco.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Looking at gun deaths isn't really the whole picture, how many people are killed in the UK from knives etc? If the deaths just switch to another weapon its hardly any better.

As far as I'm aware if you hear a burglar and arm yourself and end up killing him/her, then you are likely to be prosecuted in the UK, as by arming yourself you are judged to have escalated the situation. Was told about a case where chap was visiting his children one night (parents seperated), he let himself in and burglar was coming down the stairs with a crowbar. Guy went into kitchen grabbed a knife and confronted burglar, end result dead burglar and guy in prison for manslaughter on the grounds that the crowbar couldn't be judged to be a weapon, but rather a tool of the burglar's trade and therefore the man was not justified in arming himself.

One thing think US has right, someone breaks into your house nail the bastard, really does take the piss that they have rights and can even sue you if they have an accident on your property, due to something being unsafe.

 

[Rookiescot]

There is a very old Scottish law called "hame sooker" or something like that.
Basicly it allows you to defend your house and familly with "reasonable" violence as required.
This law does not allow you to tie up a burgler and cut lumps off him till you get bored.
But if you are in danger or members of your household are in danger you are entitled to give the git a bloody good kicking and restrain him till the authorities (police) arrive.
This seems like a common sense approach to home defense.

edit....

You would also not be allowed to tie him up and make him watch Thugs SB videos. That would be considered "cruel and unusual punishment".

 

[Iceforge]

Looking at gun deaths isn't really the whole picture, how many people are killed in the UK from knives etc? If the deaths just switch to another weapon its hardly any better.

Nice observation, dont know statics from other weapons, but if you look at how generally easy it is to kill someone with a gun compared to how "hard" it is to do with a knife, it should make a difference, cant find static for all other weapons, so I'll leave that question open

One thing think US has right, someone breaks into your house nail the bastard, really does take the piss that they have rights and can even sue you if they have an accident on your property, due to something being unsafe.

Over protecting tbh, I would defend myself/loved ones from harms way, and that would be as soon as I felt a thread, if I see someone stealing items which obious is unarmed/unable to perform harm, then why should I kill them? And why should I kill someone if I can effectively disable them until the cops can arrive? - Why do more violence than needed be?

UK population 58,789,194

US population 222,411,653

so your statistics are rly showing the wrong picture here. sure usa will still come out on top if u take population into the calculation but it wont be by as much as your figgures show

yeah it is a big diff, i just dont like lying statistics

Not lying statics, just giving raw numbers, didnt claim it to be weighted towards population or anything, I just presumed people themselves knew that number of people in USA > number of people in US, or you could say I was a politican fighting a cause, then it would be numbers presented same way, the way where they did the greatest benifitial thing for your cause

is that 11.212 or 11,212?

Would like to see that last 0,212 person to be honest, would look awesome being 0,212 person!

And if you dont understand why I use , and not . and want to educate me, educate yourself, look my location (Denmark) and find out which (, or .) we use when

 

[Tasslehoff]

well but the intruder can also take one of them then...

But we are six ;p

 

[Saggy]

AAARRRRGGHHH!!! I hate that statement, here we go again

Read it as a part of the paragraph, not as in a single sentence ;o

It's YOUR fault for not insuring/locking up your property.

Eh? Anyway, locking/securing your property wont stop burgulars, locking/securing your property is made to stop the "normally honest" people for stepping to the darkside

How long before some poor sod leaves his keys in his car, some fucknut steals it and crashes into a family of 5 killing them all and himself, and the relatives come looking to sue him for not securing his car.

Ok, and you consider people as items? Grand theft auto and killing people with car are two separate crimes, no? Crashing the car=who cares but killing the people=bad, mmkay? If that "fucknut" happens to be 8-years-old girl then sure, I see why her family sue the car owner for not securing the car - movies/games isn't the main concern why <10-years-old children shoot themselves, getting the access to guns is what people should be worried about ;o

It will happen in this ever increasing blame culture, wouldn't be suprised if it's happened allready.
You can be sued by a burgular if he injures himself in your property and they can prove it was your negligence, loose roof tiles/stair carpet etc.

Yes, I remember a case where rapist slipped on ice paralyzing himself and sued the one he raped for not taking care of his yard - he won the case (but ofc got in the jail for what he done).

The world has gone fookin loco.

Yes.

 

[Ezteq]

Personally i feel my home to be a sacred place to me it is the one place on this planet where i should be able to feel totally safe and anyone, i mean ANYONE who takes that away from me by violating my personal space i (imo) have the right to protect myself from. I have reasons for feeling like this which i wont go in to but all i want is to be left alone at home which is why when the door goes i rarely answer it and it never gets opened when the bf is away.

So the thought of my home being invaded is quite possibly one of the most awful things for me to think of, along with the dangers that such a break in might also bring (nastyness that can be inflicted on a chick if some skank breaks in)

I am not condoning people running about with guns busting caps in folks arses just for the hell of it there is never any excuse for unnessassary(sp?) violence, however i would feel safer if i had a gun with in my reach because as far as i am concerned anyone who breaks in to my home has no right to be there, "i was just there to nick the telly" doesnt really make it ok does it? what right do people have to come in to your house and take your stuff, wreck your sence of personal safety just because they are too bone lazy to get a job and buy their own stuff or to get a job to pay for drug habbits.

And as for this crap about duty of care, yes you have a duty of care, you have a duty of care to yourself and your family and any one who should not be there can bloody well go whistle.

 

[Job]

Kill them and worry about it later, at least you are still alive to tell the tale.

Reminds of that classic case in America when some crazy attacked two teenage couples in a remote spot, he tied up the guys and abducted the girls.

The police found him and gave chase, he had the girls tied up and was threatening to kill them, so the officers shot him dead through the window.

The Sheriff being intervewed on TV said.

"We don't have to worry about the Supreme court or lengthy appeals or distressing court appearances for the victims, the assailant is deceased"

Pure class

 

[Saggy]

Kill them and worry about it later, at least you are still alive to tell the tale.

Or just point your gun at him and see how he react? I would let burgular away with or without the items he was after instead of slaughtering him/her there if s/he decides to leg it - Police will do their best on finding him and I'll get my items back thanks to insurance. However, if I see him/her as a threat I would shoot him/her - someone carrying my television isn't really a threat unless he is alien with more than two hands I know people who can't live in their home after someone breaks in it because they feel its "dirty" - personally I'm not too bothered about it.

If I'm not mistaken the integrity of one's house is basically the foundation of many nations laws which is fairly healthy thing - without search warrant king, queen or president isn't allowed to enter your house.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Except you let him go with your telly as long as he isn't threatening anyone, sure you'll get the TV replaced, but its a dead cert he'll be back again, he knows you're a soft touch. Shoot the bugger he ain't coming back.