The inevitable Season 5 thread

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RogueOne

Guest
I know you're probably thinking it's far too early to be starting this discussion, but given the length of time we spent arguing over these details last season and the fact that I'll still be trying to keep the between-seasons break as soon as possible, I thought it best to start it now. Please note that this is a "discussion" thread, not an "ultimatum" thread, so unless otherwise specified, everything here is open to debate and I welcome feedback.

First, I think we should keep the current split between CO and MR12 divisions. It seems to be working well this season and although it means a fair bit of work for us admins, I'm happy to keep it. Also, I think the league should stay at its current 90 clan size. This is large enough to allow for a decent number of decent sized divisions and I'm not sure that we could currently support more expansion.

As for server settings, I'm going to suggest the following (which are largely the same as this season). Additions and suggestions are especially welcome here:

mp_friendlyfire 1
mp_forcechasecam 2
mp_c4timer 35
mp_tkpunish 0
mp_autokick 0

Now we get to the most contentious part of the discussion, namely the map-list. We've had a lot of argument over this in the past and it's clear that we're never going to satisfy everybody with any given map-list. Please note that I *am* willing to consider the idea of different map-lists for different divisions, but *not* the idea of custom maps, since these would prove too problematic.

As a general guideline, it's my opinion that we should be aiming for a generally conservative map-list, with one or two "risky" maps thrown in each season, just to keep some interest.

My draft suggestions would go as follows:

Week 1 - de_prodigy - One of the most heavily used match-maps and a generally uncontravertial one. Probably a good map to run in week 1, when we're trying to find our feet for the new season.

Week 2 - de_dust - We gave it a rest this season, but I think we can probably see it return in season 5. Generally popular, although rather boring.

Week 3 - de_train - Should be familiar to most clans after being used in seasons 3 and 4. Should provide a more unpredictable week of matches than dust.

Week 4 - de_dust2 - A good rushy map, always a favorite and far superior to the standard de_dust, in my opinion.

Week 5 - de_piranesi - The new CS1.5 map. Obviously, it will have to demonstrate some potential, but assuming it's not outright dire, I think throwing in a new map mid-season is good for keeping people on their toes.

Week 6 - de_aztec - The sniper's favorite. 'nuff said

Week 7 - de_nuke - One of the long-running favorites and always a good match for clan maps. We're going to finish season 4 on it, but I think we should move it forwards a little for season 5.

Week 8 - de_cbble - Another good rush map. Generally popular.

Week 9 - de_inferno - We started this season on it, so let's use it to end next season :)

As you can see, I've gone for an entirely de_ list. I'm willing to consider suggestions of cs_ maps, whether on a general basis or just for certain divisions.

Please feel free to use this thread for any other suggestions for 1.5, although don't be offended if we can't take everybody's ideas on-board.
 
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blunt^

Guest
Yea i like the look of that map cycle and think removing vegas is a good move, i dont personally like that map. Im not sure about any cs_* maps, i like de_* maps alot better and they seem to be alot more fun/strategic at the same time for clan games than cs_* maps.

I think it would be nice to implement some sort of player match reports system next season but not really a big deal.

The CO and MR divisions seem to be working and i would say keep the same system for next season.
 
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g-shock

Guest
italy is always a good map 2 play, even if it does end up as hunt the terrorist, its always good tacticaly. its also a map most people like.
 
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old.[MMX]Pitt

Guest
maps look great, just 1 suggestion, cs_Italy, I know its a much loved map and would very much like to see it played in the league. Just a thought
 
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[TNN]Aardvark

Guest
I point you at the location of the hostages. CTs have to approach a single site, thats extremely easy to defend. All defenders will be inside 5 seconds movement of each other, so backup will be fast. If the map had hostages spawned in the house and somewhere behind the cellars, then it would probably be a good map to play, but as it is its just far too easy for the Ts.
 
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old.[MMX]Pitt

Guest
yea but if everyone were to camp in the house there would be carnage if a few HE's were thrown in there, Like I said it was just a suggestion. Most CS maps have all the hostages together any how.
 
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RogueOne

Guest
The "only one defence point" factor is the big problem with a lot of cs_ maps. I think cs_office fares *slightly* better in this respects, although no hostage map will ever be perfect, since the Ts need only defend one pair of hostages, if they're willing to give the CTs some free money.
 
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g-shock

Guest
the argument that its easy for t's isnt really relevant as both teams will have 2 overcome this when its there turn as ct. italy still provides a good clan war.
 
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RogueOne

Guest
I guess my real worry is that in the higher divisions, where both teams actually know how to play as T, we'll see a lot of no-score draws.

If cs_ maps are to be considered, I think it might be an idea if they were for the lower divisions only.
 
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old.yashar

Guest
I think you should keep de_chateau, it's a good map, nice and fast, and chuck out inferno, too yellow for my liking.
 
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old.[MMX]Pitt

Guest
Actually I think your right about de_chateau, I for 1 turned my nose up to the map since I didn't know the map and therefore abused it for day's. Anyway after looking into tactics for the map I slowly took a liking to it, after I played a match on that map, I knew then that it was actually a very good map and alot of positions to play. I wouldn't mind seeing that map again in a season. Very good, very fast.
 
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CheesyPeteza

Guest
I was so happy when you got rid of de_dust this season. Don't bring it back please. :( Or if you do just make it a division 4 map perhaps?
 
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old.amoeba

Guest
I'd like to see militia in there. Its a nice big open map, with lots of different tactics.

I dont know about de_piranesi - has anyone seen it yet? Its the new 1.5 map right?
 
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RogueOne

Guest
Just a few replies to the comments above:

de_chateau was inserted this season as the token new map. I think one new map per season is a good thing, since it shakes things up a bit and allows for some unpredictable results. In this respect, it seems to be working perfectly. It was never intended to become a permanent part of the BWCSL map cycle. However, if enough people like it, then I guess there's no reason not to bring it back.

de_dust was given a rest during season 4 due to popular demand. It's definitely an overplayed map and a lot of clans do play it on autopilot. However, I felt that it was probably right to bring it back for season 5. I've been quite surprised by the ferocity of the opposition to this idea. As far as I'm concerned, de_dust is still in there, but its presence will be subject to review before the next season starts. Do bear in mind that dropping dust will probably force us to include vegas, torn, chateau or one of the other maps that people are likely to object to.

cs_militia is, to my mind, one of the worst cs_ maps for competative play, along with assault and siege. It's the ultimate one-sided map and with two decent teams playing, I can seriously see the CTs not getting a round either way. If militia ends up being included, it will only be for the lower divisions.
 
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blunt^

Guest
i agree, i think de_dust is overplayed and giving it a rest for a season seems like a good idea. I would like to see it back next season as it is always a good map to play.

bycsl have cs_militia in the league map rotation and i must say it was one of the worst games ive ever played. I wouldnt like to see this in our division (3D).

I havent really played de_chateau much but it seems like a good map and quite fun as a clan map. Have to see what everyone thinks of it after this week.
 
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g-shock

Guest
i think the introduction of chateau was a success but i think the fact it was, was coz it was new and unknown.
 
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RogueOne

Guest
Ok, I guess that's enough votes against militia. I really don't see that map working and everybody's doing the "not in my division" thing, so probably best to give it a miss :)

As for the chateau and dust debates, I think those are very much open and feedback is still needed so that an informed decision can be made.
 
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CheesyPeteza

Guest
I used to like dust clan matches when we were in division 4. But a year has passed now and the map has got very boring. It doesn't take many matches to realise the same tactics are being played again, and again, and again. :sleeping:

But I'm sure a lot of new clans will like it which I assume will be mainly in div 4. Maybe some div 3 clans can put up with it, but it must be like watching paint dry for the div 2 & 1 guys.

Perhaps give div 4 & 3 dust, and let 2 & 1 have another map. Maybe an old cs map? We should be in div 2 by next season anyway. :)
 
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old.Minimccabe

Guest
de_dust - After playing an 8v8 match on de_dust about a week ago i have been completly put off dust. de_dust is a no no.

cs_ maps - If u perhaps included cs_ maps only in the MR12 divisions it may help to solve the problem of the Terrorists camping and defending the hostages. With Both Sides Scoring it might just give them the boost to go frag hunting rather than camp. Just Maybe.

de_chateau - yes, keep this. During training for this weeks match i realised that chateau is a very tacticial map. I like that :clap:

de_vegas - I personally dont like de_vegas and i think that should stay out.

new map for season 5 - Why not give this new 1.5 map a try? The new 1.4 map proved to be a sucess......

Mini
 
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[TNN]Aardvark

Guest
Originally posted by Minimccabe
cs_ maps - If u perhaps included cs_ maps only in the MR12 divisions it may help to solve the problem of the Terrorists camping and defending the hostages. With Both Sides Scoring it might just give them the boost to go frag hunting rather than camp. Just Maybe.

Or they just camp the time out and win that way.
 
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old.Smeg

Guest
The map list looks fine, I think we would prefer MR12 now instead of c/o- Im assuming we will get a choice again for next season?
 
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RogueOne

Guest
Yes. I'll be asking all clans to re-confirm their scoring and timeslot preferences at the end of this season.
 
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Ivan.

Guest
I think leaving Dust out is a good idea.

I would like to see Chateau return, we practiced it loads but never got a chance to play! But seriously, I think it has real potential as a clan match map.

Vegas, besides being new to me in terms of clan play, I can't really see any objections to. I haven't played a match on it yet, but looking at it with a view to the match, it doesn't seem too bad. Certainly more enjoyable to play than dust, I would say.

[KOBK]Ivan.
 
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blunt^

Guest
Hmm, I dont really like the idea of de_vegas.

It would be nice to see a custom map in the map cycle. :)
 
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Ivan.

Guest
I think custom maps are another no-no, like knife fights. They cause too much confusion, although with different map lists for different divisions, maybe a possibility of seeing them in higher divisions?

[KOBK]Ivan.
 
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[TNN]Aardvark

Guest
Higher divisions are even harder to organise beyond making them all turn up :)
 

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