Politics The General Election 2015

[Scouse]

Just checking @Bodhi - you don't think that any big businesses use legal but unethical artificial methods of reducing their tax bill? That there isn't really a problem here?

If I concede to your point that Amazon is the utopian wonder-investor that you think they are, you'd still assert that it isn't a problem elsewhere?

 

[Raven]

If they changed it to a tax on turnover rather than a tax on profit it would be a disaster.

Amazon is a really bad example btw, they have been investing pretty much all their profit for years and therefore not actually making all that much profit. They haven't been doing it as a way to avoid tax but to own every part of the market and I imagine they will continue to do so until shit is flown same day to you by drones, or space monkeys, or whatever. Avoiding profit to avoid tax wouldn't make any sense.

They do need to tighten up on people like Starbucks though, buying stuff way over the market value from a company in a low tax country is a shitty way to evade (yes, evade!) tax.

 

[Gumbo]

There is a tax on turnover. it's called vat. I bet Amazon collect a lot of that and pay it over nicely.

 

[Scouse]

If they changed it to a tax on turnover rather than a tax on profit it would be a disaster. Avoiding profit to avoid tax wouldn't make any sense.

Agree and agree.

I used Amazon as an offhand flippant thing (as can be seen by the post) and Bodhs decided to hammer on that rather than engage with the actual argument. But there's no doubt about it - big companies are using legal but hugely unethical means to avoid paying tax. It's no secret. There was a hoo-ha about it pre election but it's all gone quiet as the tories won't do shit about it.

There's huge wads of money rolling around blighty - 6th largest economy n'all - it's just concentrated way too densely in the hands of way too few.

I'm not against anyone being worth a hundred, perhaps even several hundred times more than the poorest in their country. But what we've got now is a joke.

 

[Bodhi]

Agree and agree.

I used Amazon as an offhand flippant thing (as can be seen by the post) and Bodhs decided to hammer on that rather than engage with the actual argument. But there's no doubt about it - big companies are using legal but hugely unethical means to avoid paying tax. It's no secret. There was a hoo-ha about it pre election but it's all gone quiet as the tories won't do shit about it.

There's huge wads of money rolling around blighty - 6th largest economy n'all - it's just concentrated way too densely in the hands of way too few.

I'm not against anyone being worth a hundred, perhaps even several hundred times more than the poorest in their country. But what we've got now is a joke.

I jumped on Amazon as it may have been a flippant example, but it was also a terrible example for reasons already stated, and showed a lack of understanding in how these things work.

 

[Scouse]

it was also a terrible example for reasons already stated, and showed a lack of understanding in how these things work.

Doesn't show a lack of understanding at all. It was a flippant big corporate example not meant to be taken seriously - and you're still not addressing the central argument.

And you accuse me of filibustering!

 

[Bodhi]

Doesn't show a lack of understanding at all. It was a flippant big corporate example not meant to be taken seriously - and you're still not addressing the central argument.

And you accuse me of filibustering!

Erm, I addressed it about 3 posts ago? I don't even recall using any big words, so you've got no excuse for not picking it up

 

[Raven]

There is a tax on turnover. it's called vat. I bet Amazon collect a lot of that and pay it over nicely.

Not strictly true as it is not included (or shouldn't be!) in any turnover figures and really should be accrued anyway. They will also pay quite a large amount of VAT when purchasing too so all they pay the VAT man is the difference.

 

[old.user4556]

Rich is 100k+ a year tbh.

Central London? No. Scotland? Yes.

Think of the mudhuts I could build. I guess 'rich' is all relative anyway.

But she fucking LOVES being the queen.

But she fucking LOVES being the queen?

I LOVE but(t) fucking the queen.

 

[Scouse]

Central London? No. Scotland? Yes.

Think of the mudhuts I could build. I guess 'rich' is all relative anyway.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. But there's nowhere in the UK that if you're on 100k+ that you could said to be struggling. Take home pay of two grand a week + the benefits you'll get if you command that sort of salary...

 

[old.user4556]

RIP Labour

Indeed. They were kicked out of Scotland last elections, although they were going down the pan long before that.

I hope you manage to kick them out of England too.

 

[Gwadien]

Indeed. They were kicked out of Scotland last elections, although they were going down the pan long before that.

I hope you manage to kick them out of England too.

This is all well and good, but what the fuck replaces Labour?

Would you rather see something more right wing, causing the middle ground to drastically move to the right and the Tories following suit?

 

[Zarjazz]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. But there's nowhere in the UK that if you're on 100k+ that you could said to be struggling. Take home pay of two grand a week + the benefits you'll get if you command that sort of salary...

Actually if you put 100k into http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php its more like £1200 per week.

 

[Gumbo]

Not strictly true as it is not included (or shouldn't be!) in any turnover figures and really should be accrued anyway. They will also pay quite a large amount of VAT when purchasing too so all they pay the VAT man is the difference.

Well yes, but you have to admit that's overthinking it and the difference in VAT between their purchase and selling price, and that which they collect in fees from their marketplace sellers over several billion probably amounts to a significant chunk heading to the exchequer.

 

[old.user4556]

This is all well and good, but what the fuck replaces Labour?

Would you rather see something more right wing, causing the middle ground to drastically move to the right and the Tories following suit?

In England, I don't know. Labour are no longer fit for purpose, perhaps a rebranded Labour?

That's what happened in Scotland. Labour moved to the right, a "working class" gulf opened up that the SNP filled and the Labour voters switched sides - it was a no brainer up here.

Maybe you need an "English nationalist working class" party or something.

 

[Scouse]

Actually if you put 100k into http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php its more like £1200 per week.

Yeah, my bad. But the point still stands. You ain't struggling on 100 grand.

The fact that it can *limit* you in places like London is a factor of suffering the super-rich and their distortive effect.

 

[Gwadien]

In England, I don't know. Labour are no longer fit for purpose, perhaps a rebranded Labour?

That's what happened in Scotland. Labour moved to the right, a "working class" gulf opened up that the SNP filled and the Labour voters switched sides - it was a no brainer up here.

Maybe you need an "English nationalist working class" party or something.

As I've said before, correct me if I am mistaken.

The Scots were upset that Labour became Tory-Lite, so therefore with more left wing policies under Corbyn, it'll resurrect Labour in Scotland?

Not to patronise you, but a single issue party can't rule an entire nation, it's okay for the SNP to do what they do now, but imagine the SNP running a whole country, it would be totally different ball game.

 

[old.user4556]

The Scots were upset that Labour became Tory-Lite, so therefore with more left wing policies under Corbyn, it'll resurrect Labour in Scotland?

Not to patronise you, but a single issue party can't rule an entire nation, it's okay for the SNP to do what they do now, but imagine the SNP running a whole country, it would be totally different ball game.

On your first point, that remains to be seen. Like the Tories / Thatcher in the 80s, it might take a long time for the Scots to forgive Bliar, Brown and the fact that Labour sided with Conservative on the Indyref 12-24 months ago.

On your second point - I agree, but as politics evolve and the landscape changes, that may indeed give way to some quasi Scottish Labour down the road.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. But there's nowhere in the UK that if you're on 100k+ that you could said to be struggling. Take home pay of two grand a week + the benefits you'll get if you command that sort of salary...

Where the hell do you get two grand a week from? If you're on 100k in the UK you'd take home about 5k a month tops. Less if you're paying into a pension. In London you could easily be paying half your salary in rent or mortgage if you have a house.

 

[Talivar]

Still i think he is right about saying anyone on 100k is not struggling

 

[Job]

100k, guess you take home 60, which is 5K...I can clear 3K cos my tax bill is smaller and not paying a pension.
Add to the much cheaper housing up North and I can live nearer work so my travel costs are tiny.
Basically I'm saying a Gas engineer in Liverpool is not that far behind a 100K earner down South...my mortgage is 400 a month for 3 bed semi out in the leafy suburbs,.

 

[old.user4556]

Indeed, £100k a year being "good" is entirely dependent on your circumstances / living costs, which is obvious for any wage. Nice problem to have.

 

[Gwadien]

Prince Andrew comes into mind

This is so brilliantly ironic, i fucking love it.

 

[Fweddy]

Nonsense. Of all the problems in this country, people not singing enough is clearly the worst.

 

[old.user4556]

What a load of fucking out of proportion bollocks. Cunt press, cunts who read the cunt press and act like a cunt on social media about it. The queen can fuck off.

<INSERT ARGUMENT ABOUT INCOME GENERATED>

Still don't give a shit.

 

[Job]

The right wing press are lashing the mud at Corbyn...most of it is half truths, but my god it's juicy....how about a man posing as an IRA bomber who had planted bombs looking for cash to escape the country, he approached Corbyns office in 1987 and a member of staff gave him 45 quid.
Ok Corbyn called the police when he found out, but even the idea that one of his staff would even consider helping an IRA terrorist is very worrying indeed.

 

[Raven]

It's all getting rather ridiculous isn't it?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...amily-fortune-evil-monster-haunts-Corbyn-past

They seem to be trying to attack his person rather than his policies, despite the fact that he seems to be a pretty decent bloke, a decent bloke with some crazy ideas.

 

[Hawkwind]

It's all getting rather ridiculous isn't it?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...amily-fortune-evil-monster-haunts-Corbyn-past

They seem to be trying to attack his person rather than his policies, despite the fact that he seems to be a pretty decent bloke, a decent bloke with some crazy ideas.

Wow press grabbing at straws. Seriously wtf has his grandfather got to do with him as a person. Don't personally like his policies but this witch hunt is getting ridiculous.They seem to be going for the throw enough mud strategy, however tenuous...

 

[Embattle]

It's all getting rather ridiculous isn't it?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...amily-fortune-evil-monster-haunts-Corbyn-past

They seem to be trying to attack his person rather than his policies, despite the fact that he seems to be a pretty decent bloke, a decent bloke with some crazy ideas.

Which will naturally have the effect of making him more popular.

 

[Job]

Now a senior serving General has said.if Corbyn got in power and tried to downgrade the armed forces or scrap Trident they would probably start a military coup and oust him.
Holy living fuck, I can't believe I'm hearing this stuff.