Politics The General Election 2015

[Ormorof]

Is there any data on how many brits living in outside UK in EU would be affected by a brexit?

 

[DaGaffer]

@Moriath - immigrants on a person-by-person basis actually take less in benefits than the "indigenous" population - it's the scummy Brits who claim, not the immigrants. Yep, there's a strain on services etc - but they're contributing more in taxes than they're taking out - and, worshipper of the market that you are - surely housing, which is mostly a private enterprise, will be sorted out by the market, no?



Yep. If 80% of them are white, and 20% of them aren't white (just guessing) - then with a ~10% non-white population even vastly majority white immigration still "darkens" up the population. Not that I give two shits about that (or was I asking to be taken hugely seriously on that frivolously made point) - I was talking to Job.

Here's something for your UKIP-loving thing tho. Shitloads of the immigration is non-EU. And we can't stop EU immigration - but we can do something about non-EU immigration. But we don't - Labour or Conservatives in government...

Does that not make you think that perhaps they don't want to stop it?

And more pertinently, most EU migration is transient, they go home again after a few years making money; most non-EU migration is intended to be permanent. EU migration is a bit of a red herring, although the one thing that muddies the waters a bit is migrants from outside the EU entering another EU country, then moving on to the UK; there are circumstances where they get included in the EU figures. I'm not sure how big that pool is.

 

[DaGaffer]

So just devils advocate.

Last year the immigration into the uk was 600k and change. Emmigration was 300k some. So we grew by 300k people in one year. If that was to happen every year are you saying that wpuldnt be a problem? With housing? With health care? With social support? Benefits?

I dont care if someones black white or indifferent. But a growth that fast cant be sustainable.

Those were the government figures or legal immigration etc. theres the illegals on top of that.

There are several other factors to consider before you can measure sustainability; are the new immigrants here to stay? What jobs do they do? Are they making a net contribution to the exchequer? Are they having enough kids to offset the declining birthrate? What's actually happening to the ageing "base" population? Until you factor all that in, everything else is just soundbites.

 

[Job]

If the (entirely discredited) polls start showing a close run thing for England pulling out, it'll have to be England cos Wales and Scotland will demand to stay in and keep the subsidies rolling in, then the EU will go into panic mode, England leaving will pull the rug under the EU and then the real squabbles will start...it will simply be a disaster and the concessions will flood in and we will stay, but then every country, especially the Greeks, will want there own, and then the whole shambles is fucked.

 

[DaGaffer]

If the (entirely discredited) polls start showing a close run thing for England pulling out, it'll have to be England cos Wales and Scotland will demand to stay in and keep the subsidies rolling in, then the EU will go into panic mode, England leaving will pull the rug under the EU and then the real squabbles will start...it will simply be a disaster and the concessions will flood in and we will stay, but then every country, especially the Greeks, will want there own, and then the whole shambles is fucked.

If the country votes to leave, it leaves. There aren't any caveats to the vote. The only option if the EU wanted to do a deal would be another referendum. You're absolutely right about Scotland though (bit more complicated about Wales), a Brexit would almost certainly also be the end of the UK itself.

 

[Job]

And the EU, it's built on sand, the core hate each other and the smaller member states are in it for the cash, aaaannnd, there isn't any.

 

[Scouse]

And the EU, it's built on sand, the core hate each other and the smaller member states are in it for the cash, aaaannnd, there isn't any.

There's loads? We print it for fun?

 

[Embattle]

Still odd watching people from todays anti-austerity rallies commenting that Austerity isn't the only option yet failing to actually offer some form of alternative as usual.

 

[Raven]

And failing to point out that actually, it appears to be working.

 

[Moriath]

And failing to point out that actually, it appears to be working.

I agree. It seems to me that there are a lot of people who were very happy on benefits thank you. That are now feeling the pinch because they arnt getting THEIR money.

 

[Job]

Amazing to see right wing in full flow, they have called the benefits system 'crazy'.
Which actually is most people's view including the majority of labour voters.

 

[Scouse]

And failing to point out that actually, it appears to be working.

The cuts came early, economic performance dropped terribly, then they stopped cutting and the economy recovered. Rinse-repeat but change the nature of government in the UK. Job done.

 

[Bodhi]

And failing to point out that actually, it appears to be working.

I've no idea how we'd know, as we don't actually seem to have gone through any yet. Public Sector spending has been going up year on year, not as much as previously, but still going up.

 

[Embattle]

Go go Jeremy Corbyn, it could well be the most hilarious thing Labour has ever done.

 

[Raven]

Tempted to join Labour for a bit so I can vote for him.

It costs just £3 to help keep labour out of government for a generation.

 

[Zarjazz]

Go go Jeremy Corbyn, it could well be the most hilarious thing Labour has ever done.

It's both funny and seriously interesting. You have the rank & file Labour members wanting a leader who actually believes what he says and offers something different to the Tories. Winning the next election seems to be low down in their priority list.

Compare that to the bland alternative career politicians who are now all scared shitless their policy of being Conservative-lite and saying whatever they think will get them votes, only to find it isn't working anymore.

 

[Job]

He has solid left wing ideas and not all of them are bad, of course the utopia of reigning in capatalism and sharing the wealth doesn't work as intended, but the wealth gap shows this isn't working either...his biggest problem is losing the working class vote by being seen to support immigration and doling out money to the feckless...I'm pretty sure benefits street put the Tories in power.

 

[Wij]

He has the benefit of having principles he believes in and stating them without waiting to see what a focus group thinks. Burnham and Cooper are the opposite.

I think Kendall also believes what she says but Labour members are in no mood for Blair two. They're happier as principled losers at the moment.

Fucked if I know who I'll vote for next time now Clegg's been replaced by a God-botherer :/

 

[ECA]

Urgh yeah the new lib dem leader seens like an utter spoon.

 

[Tom]

I quite like the guy, especially when he became the only candidate to answer if he'd like Ed Milliband in his shadow cabinet.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRJlagId870


Agree or disagree with his policies, a real socialist in an opposition role will certainly stir the hornets' nest.

 

[Raven]

No it wouldn't. it would only further alienate the voters. Nobody actually likes a Socialist. Lots of people say they do but that's only because they don't know what it means.

He is a complete waste of time. Perfect Labour leader.

 

[Ormorof]

the danger for british politics is that if the labour party splits that would leave only 1 large party with the rest forced into coalition if they want to form a government

this wouldnt be a problem if the UK had some form of proportional representation (you know actual democracy ) but because of the silly way the referendum on that was handled you ended up stuck with what you got

 

[Embattle]

It's both funny and seriously interesting. You have the rank & file Labour members wanting a leader who actually believes what he says and offers something different to the Tories. Winning the next election seems to be low down in their priority list.

Compare that to the bland alternative career politicians who are now all scared shitless their policy of being Conservative-lite and saying whatever they think will get them votes, only to find it isn't working anymore.

Oh no doubt although I do like the attempts of some parts of Labour trying to rewrite the past as to why they lost the election to suit the narrative for Corbyn to succeed. I would view labour with Corbyn as being much like they were under Neil Kinnock.

 

[Zarjazz]

Oh no doubt although I do like the attempts of some parts of Labour trying to rewrite the past as to why they lost the election to suit the narrative for Corbyn to succeed.

I don't see it like that at all. The video @Tom posted is brilliant and pretty much shows exactly why Corbyn is leading in the polls. The three others spend minutes avoiding to answer a simple question and just come across as wankers, while he answers straight away in seconds, no nonsense.

 

[Embattle]

They are generally all wankers unable to answer questions but it doesn't change the fact his straight answers won't help him win an election with his current ideas and my point regarding being like Labour with Neil Kinnock is they would essentially become unelectable.

 

[Raven]

Jeremy Corbyn, the gift that keeps on giving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33839819

 

[Raven]

That nasty, racist bitch is going full tilt in destroying labour

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33849534

She is probably suited to work with a holocaust denier.

It's lovely watching labour implode. Deluded socialists fucking them from the inside.

 

[Wij]

On the other hand:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...seems-nice-bloke-i-havent-clue-what-he-stands

 

[Embattle]

So with the voting closed will JC make it?

 

[Gumbo]

I don't know whether to be happy he's won or terrified, but yes, I do think he will have won. If not, expect the loony left to batter on about conspiracies etc.